Printings of 4E books.

[ggroy]

With all this talk of WotC not doing any printings for the 4e core books in various threads, let's look at what the actual printings the 4E D&D books are.

Here's a guide to determine what printing a particular book came from.

http://www.travelinlibrarian.info/writing/editions/#prfa

One should see a sequence of numbers on the page with the copyright information.

In the case of WotC 4E D&D books, this information will be on the second pages of most 4E books, at the bottom left hand corner. (Page one is usually the title page, while page three is the table of contents).

For a first printing, one should see the sequence of numbers

9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1

For a second printing, one should see the sequence of numbers

9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2

For a third printing, one should see the sequence of numbers

9 8 7 6 5 4 3

For a fourth printing, one should see the sequence of numbers

9 8 7 6 5 4

etc ...

Looking through all my 4E books, they all have the sequence of numbers "9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1" which means they are all first printings.

So far over the last year or so of looking through big box bookstores and gaming stores, the only second printings of 4E books I've seen so far have been for the 4E Player's Handbook 2. (These printings have the sequence of numbers "9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2").

The misleading part about many 4E books, is that it will also include a string "First Printing: **Date**" also right below (or above) the sequence of numbers "9 8 7 6 ...". For example, the 4E core books PHB1/DMG1/MM1 will have a string "First Printing: June 2008", regardless of the printing. This string does NOT tell you what the actual printing is.

Using this convention of a sequence of numbers to determine the printings of the 4E books, which printings of 4E books do other people have?

[Uchawi]

May I ask what the intent is for collecting this data, and I am curious how useful it may be without knowing the print volume. I definitely don't want to get into another debate as to printings and essentials being D&D 4.5, or the fate of 4E.

[ggroy]

The interest is seeing how many printings of various 4E books have been done so far. Nothing more, nothing less.

It may help understand what exactly is going on, as to whether the rumors are baseless.

[ggroy]

I was in another part of town today, and decided to check out two big box bookstores and a comic book shop which stocked 4E books. (I haven't been to these places in over a year).

The printings of 4E books I came across were:

- second printing of 4E Forgotten Realms Player's Guide
- second printing of 4E PHB1
- second printing of 4E DMG1
- third printing of 4E MM1
- fourth printing of 4E PHB2

(The other 4E books in stock were all first printings).

At one big box bookstore, I sat down and took a closer look at the subsequent printings of PHB1, DMG1, and MM1. It appears there were not many errata (if any) corrections incorporated into these subsequent printings. For example:

- The second printing of PHB1 still had the old stealth rules as the first printing of PHB1.
- The second printing of DMG1 still had the old skill challenges as the first printing of the DMG1.
- The third printing of MM1 still uses the old hit points formula for solo monsters above level 11. (ie. The level 33 Orcus has 1525 HP in the first, second, and third printings of the 4E MM1. With the corrected hit points formula for solo monsters in the 4E DMG2, a level 33 Orcus should have 1220 HP).

[Jeremy Mac Donald]

Mine are all 1st printings.

2nd Print run I can understand but that 4th print run means some one messed up. It costs money to send things to the printers - a lot more then having a larger print run. There should not be a 4th printing of a book thats only been out for 2 years tops.

Though I guess that its better to do smaller print runs and be pleasantly surprised that a book is doing so well then to do a huge print run and and be left with tons of unsalable stock.

It looks like PHB2 sold much better then had been anticipated. At a guess it appears that WotC was treating PHB2 as if it where a supplement and printed accordingly and have been pleasantly surprised that the consumers are treating it more like a core book.

It appears that for all our b$~&%ing and moaning that we did not get the druid and gnome in PHB1 marketing at WotC was probably onto something when they choose to hold these back to PHB2 at least from a money making perspective.

[TriOmegaZero]

ggroy wrote:

I was in another part of town today, and decided to check out two big box bookstores and a comic book shop which stocked 4E books. (I haven't been to these places in over a year).

I don't suppose you clicked any pics of them for verification, did you? I have some friends who don't believe it happened and I doubt they'll accept 'random dude on the interwebs' as credible. :/

[ggroy]

No pics. Sorry. I don't own a camera or a cellphone.

Though if you don't believe me, you're certainly welcome to check out some nearby big box bookstores and see whether there are any subsequent printings of various 4E books on the shelves, and report your findings here.

[Steve Geddes]

You got me curious (plus I have a mountain of unappealing work to get to) so I checked my copies. All of them are first printing (a complete set of 4th edition books, I think) except for:

Keep on the Shadowfell
Forgotten Realms Players' Guide

Both of which are the second printing.

[ggroy]

Steve Geddes wrote:

You got me curious (plus I have a mountain of unappealing work to get to) so I checked my copies. All of them are first printing (a complete set of 4th edition books, I think) except for:

Keep on the Shadowfell
Forgotten Realms Players' Guide

Both of which are the second printing.

It didn't cross my mind at first to check the printings of the WotC 4E modules.

So I went through my modules, and noticed my copy of "Thunderspire Labyrinth" is indeed a second printing. (I purchased it back in mid-2009).

All the other WotC 4E modules I have are first printings.

[PsychoticWarrior]

Jeremy Mac Donald wrote:

Mine are all 1st printings.

2nd Print run I can understand but that 4th print run means some one messed up. It costs money to send things to the printers - a lot more then having a larger print run. There should not be a 4th printing of a book thats only been out for 2 years tops.

Huh? So if a book sells really well it is someone's fault? I really don't understand what you are saying here. There are no 'evergreen' books in the RPG business (even core rulebooks don't fall under this category although they will continue to sell longer) so if they over produce the company in question is stuck with the extra stock for a long, long time. That's a loss to the company - far better to have smaller print runs that you can turn over at a profit quickly. Have stuff sit in warehouses for years costs money too(ever hear about the 1000's of copies of 1E hardbacks that had to be pulped by WotC when they took over TSR even after a year long $5 sale? The stuff had been sitting there since the 80's in some cases).

[ggroy]

PsychoticWarrior wrote:

Have stuff sit in warehouses for years costs money too (ever hear about the 1000's of copies of 1E hardbacks that had to be pulped by WotC when they took over TSR even after a year long $5 sale? The stuff had been sitting there since the 80's in some cases).

Wonder how many TSR Buck Rogers books and modules, ended up being pulped by WotC.

[ggroy]

Steve Geddes wrote:

Keep on the Shadowfell

Forgotten Realms Players' Guide

Both of which are the second printing.

Just wondering. (If you don't mind me asking).

Do you remember when you purchased the second print "Keep on the Shadowfell" module?

Do you remember when you purchased the second print "Forgotten Realms: Player's Guide"?

This information could give a better timeline as to when these subsequent printings first appeared on the market.

For my second print of "Thundespire Labyrinth", I remember purchasing it sometime around May 2009.

[Steve Geddes]

ggroy wrote:

Steve Geddes wrote:

Keep on the Shadowfell

Forgotten Realms Players' Guide

Both of which are the second printing.

Just wondering. (If you don't mind me asking).

Do you remember when you purchased the second print "Keep on the Shadowfell" module?

Do you remember when you purchased the second print "Forgotten Realms: Player's Guide"?

This information could give a better timeline as to when these subsequent printings first appeared on the market.

For my second print of "Thundespire Labyrinth", I remember purchasing it sometime around May 2009.

Keep on the Shadowfell was early in 2009 (I can't be more precise than January to June I'm afraid). Forgotten Realms Player's Guide was around about August/September 2009. Although being in Australia will no doubt have some (unknown) effect on the significance.

[ggroy]

Steve Geddes wrote:

Keep on the Shadowfell was early in 2009 (I can't be more precise than January to June I'm afraid). Forgotten Realms Player's Guide was around about August/September 2009. Although being in Australia will no doubt have some (unknown) effect on the significance.

Thanks Steve for the info.

I have another question about the second printing "Forgotten Realms: Player's Guide" (FRPG). Did your second printing copy include any errata corrections?

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/UpdateFRPG.pdf

For example, on page 26 for the "Swordmage Warding", is the third paragraph deleted?

The third paragraph from the first printing FRPG which should be deleted is:

"If you become unconscious, your Swordmage Warding benefit disappears. You can restore it by taking a short rest or an extended rest."

Another errata on page 28, is for the Burning Blade power. The errata states that the line "Target: One creature" is missing from the first printing of the FRPG.

A third errata on page 29, is for the Lingering Lighting power. The errata states that the "[W]" should be replaced by "d8".

[Steve Geddes]

ggroy wrote:

Steve Geddes wrote:

Keep on the Shadowfell was early in 2009 (I can't be more precise than January to June I'm afraid). Forgotten Realms Player's Guide was around about August/September 2009. Although being in Australia will no doubt have some (unknown) effect on the significance.

Thanks Steve for the info.

I have another question about the second printing "Forgotten Realms: Player's Guide" (FRPG). Did your second printing copy include any errata corrections?

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/UpdateFRPG.pdf

For example, on page 26 for the "Swordmage Warding", is the third paragraph deleted?

The third paragraph from the first printing FRPG which should be deleted is:

"If you become unconscious, your Swordmage Warding benefit disappears. You can restore it by taking a short rest or an extended rest."

Another errata on page 28, is for the Burning Blade power. The errata states that the line "Target: One creature" is missing from the first printing of the FRPG.

A third errata on page 29, is for the Lingering Lighting power. The errata states that the "[W]" should be replaced by "d8".

I didnt check all of them, however it looks like errata aren't included. The first one you list is present in my second printing.

[ggroy]

Steve Geddes wrote:

I didnt check all of them, however it looks like errata aren't included. The first one you list is present in my second printing.

Thanks Steve, for the info. I appreciate it.

Earlier today I dropped by two of the places I went to last week. (One big box bookstore and a gaming store).

I sat down and took a closer look at two books, to examine it for errata:

- second printing of 4E MM2
- fourth printing of 4E PHB2.

It appears there are few errata corrections (if any) incorporated into these subsequent printings. For example:

- In the fourth printing 4E PHB2, there were no errata corrections done for the following class powers:

Avenger: Twin Step
Barbarian: Rage Strike, Devastating Strike, Howling Strike, Recuperating Strike
Druid: Wild Shape, Call of the Beast
Invoker: Blood Debt

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/UpdatePH2.pdf

- In the second printing 4E MM2, there were no errata corrections done for the following entries:

page 8 - Angel of Retrieval
page 9 - Angel of Light
page 96 - Eladrin Arcane Archer
page 158 - Wereboar
page 216 - Aura.

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/UpdateMM2.pdf

I also sat down and looked further at the second and third printings of the 4E MM1.

In particular, I examined the hit points of the solo monsters. With a calculator, I determined that the level 11 and higher solos were using the old hit points formula from the 4E DMG1.

The old hit points formula for solos monsters from the 4E DMG1 was:

[ 8*(level + 1) + CON]*4 -> level 1 to 10

[ 8*(level + 1) + CON]*5 -> level 11 and higher

The new hit points formula for all solos from the 4E DMG2 is:

[ 8*(level + 1) + CON]*4

I also did the hit points calculations of the solo monsters in the 4E MM2 book. It follows the new hit points formula from the 4E DMG2.

I also saw the Orcus figure on the shelf at the gaming store, and noticed the Orcus stat card (printed on the box) mentioned that Orcus is level 34 and has 1252 hit points. Doing the hit points calculation, this is consistent with the new hit points formula from the 4E DMG2, assuming Orcus has a CON of 33. (Orcus from MM1, has a CON of 33).

At this point in time and in the near future, I don't know if WotC will ever publish any new printings of the 4E core books with the errata corrections incorporated into them. For the rest of the year, most of their printing efforts will be on the 4E Essentials product line.