Thoughts of Spheres of Power, and some Akashic and PoW


Advice and Rules Questions

51 to 75 of 75 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | next > last >>

Felyndiira wrote:
A little note about tiers: I actually consider most sphere casters to be closer to T4 than T3, looking back at the 3.5 warlock. They do get more options over time than the warlock does, but also need to spend more of their talents to reach the power that certain invocations might give you. Some spheres (alteration being a major example) do give enough versatility to bump them up to low T3, but I feel that they still do not compare against, say, Bards.

It's already too late to edit this post, so I will just have to take this part of my post back the old-fashioned way - by emphasizing my idiocy for everyone to see.

Please disregard this part of my post. Sphere casters are definitely T3.


Regarding the army of Conjuration Companion abuse, I just noticed that it costs 3 spell points to extend a summoning to 1 full day. 1 point to summon, 1 point to stop concentrating, and 1 additional point to apply lingering companion.

This means you can only summon 3 of your 5 companions at 1st level, and 11 of your 15 companions at 11th level.

Still a whole army and abusive, but it is worth noting.


Felyndiira wrote:


Firstly, I don't think a harbinger, alone, will blow the sphere casters out of the water. The debuffs offered by Cursed Razor, while potent, is still limited in nature, and the single-hit +Xd6 damage imitates what a destruction sphere caster might be able to do with one of his element + debuff rider options. The major issue is Shattered Mirror - if you allow enemies to keep their powerful SLAs, Shattered Mirror becomes an exceedingly powerful discipline. For balance, you can put limits on what kinds of effects it can steal, deny, turn into aura, and switcheroo around, or just give Harbingers an alternate discipline in place of Shattered Mirror.

I feel compelled to note that Mirror's thefts are only as strong as the stuff available to steal (which would presumably be less strong in a Spheres game) and that their durations tend to be universally lower. The aura stance, while potent, comes online much later and shouldn't present difficulties.


Lirya wrote:

Regarding the army of Conjuration Companion abuse, I just noticed that it costs 3 spell points to extend a summoning to 1 full day. 1 point to summon, 1 point to stop concentrating, and 1 additional point to apply lingering companion.

This means you can only summon 3 of your 5 companions at 1st level, and 11 of your 15 companions at 11th level.

Still a whole army and abusive, but it is worth noting.

Disregarding that since they only have lingering as their sole form talent those companions don't do anything.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

Personally, I don't see the fact that a Shattered Mirror harbinger can deny/steal some effects as a problem. It doesn't break things unless you're for some reason throwing enemies that can use things like wish at them, and by the time they have the aura stance, it's not even a blip on the radar regarding broken (unless your metric for broken is for some unknowable reason "what a Fighter can't do").

Overall, I'll agree that initiators will outdamage Spheres of Power (outside of conjuration companions). The destruction sphere is one of the most underpowered in the book; It's basically 3.5 warlock without the things that made its damage viable (iterative and extra attacks on Glaive, clawlock spamming, and hellfire), which... Isn't great, for damage. I'm considering houseruling it to always have CL in dice, myself.

However, regarding PoW and paizo martials... It's probably not too much of an issue. 1pp martials can already trivially boost damage to "erases the target" levels, the slight increase in damage added by Path of War stuff is a bit problematic, but overall, if a player's going to optimize full attacks, they don't need Path of War to do it. Personally, I'd rather have fighters with maneuvers and an incentive to use strikes over full attacks, because full attacks are a major isue with the game as a whole and one that can't really be solved without rewriting the system. No one, neither caster nor martial, should be reliably erasing encounters in one round without either prep time and perfect conditions, lots of luck, or a large power discrepency. It's not difficult for martials without PoW to get to that level, and with PoW, at least if you're grabbing damage-boosting boosts and stances, it comes alongside cooler and more balanced things you can do in addition to the full attacks. If the foreseen problem is full attacks outdamaging things, then that's something to talk to the players about, not something to ban an otherwise awesome book over. Well, something to ban Primal Fury over. It's majorly overtuned for natural weapon builds (and everyone else, really), but that and Broken Blade are the only things I'd ban from PoW.


I have a question about Path of War. Exactly what is broken? I heard about a few problem maneuvers but nothing I've seen so far is as obnoxious as 4th level wizard spells.

Sovereign Court

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Malwing, at lower levels and higher levels with the right build (BB/PF which should be getting a powerlevel errata soonish? I know Gareth's watching this thread) you unleash far too many dice for most creatures to handle.

Some people have issue with 'infinite spells.' Though a more genuine issue would be infinite healing and infinite teleportation outside of combat.

And others are butthurt that their wizards aren't speshul ne moar.


I can understand infinite healing and teleportation but don't most maneuvers not compete with full attacks from a semi optimized fighter in damage? Especially without in class attack and damage bonuses.

Sovereign Court

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Maneuvers themselves do not, but boosts+stances and a full attack can do ridiculous damage.

Er but the issue is people see "Woah, that's 4d6s plus your base damage at fifth level as a standard action, that might make you slightly stronger than a 2h rogue!"


Adamsmithchan wrote:

Malwing, at lower levels and higher levels with the right build (BB/PF which should be getting a powerlevel errata soonish? I know Gareth's watching this thread) you unleash far too many dice for most creatures to handle.

Some people have issue with 'infinite spells.' Though a more genuine issue would be infinite healing and infinite teleportation outside of combat.

And others are butthurt that their wizards aren't speshul ne moar.

It's not the dice that drives it, necessarily. In terms of dice maneuvers generally match equal-level blasting spells. But PoW can throw down melee or ranged mods along with it, which does...Things...to the damage. These things are to an extent meant to happen; Path of War was designed to let new players or those who don't really want to crunch numbers not have to worry about those.

The short-range 'ports out of combat and infinite healing are indeed a thing, but I had those back in Tome of Battle's day and they didn't disturb much.

TL;DR damage is easier to optimize but still falls short of what you can pull with a full attack or pounce at equal optimization, out-of-combat stuff does indeed happen and is sometimes complained of.


What gives infinite teleportation/healing? Because honestly if its self only I'm not sure if I care assuming 9 level casters exist.

Dark Archive

Silver Crane has "infinite" self healing but it revolves around attacking things. Some DMs don't mind letting players attack trees, the ground, etc. to get infinite healing that way, and others don't.

Veiled Moon has teleporting at-will, but it's like... 60 ft. at most? Certainly not the kind of transdimensional/transcontinental stuff that full spellcasters can pull off.


Seranov wrote:

Silver Crane has "infinite" self healing but it revolves around attacking things. Some DMs don't mind letting players attack trees, the ground, etc. to get infinite healing that way, and others don't.

Veiled Moon has teleporting at-will, but it's like... 60 ft. at most? Certainly not the kind of transdimensional/transcontinental stuff that full spellcasters can pull off.

Shattered Mirror also provides a couple of medium-range self-ports (100 ft. +10 ft/level); Fetch's Wrath at 4th level maneuvers, and Mirror Demon's Waltz at 7th.


Seranov wrote:
Silver Crane has "infinite" self healing but it revolves around attacking things. Some DMs don't mind letting players attack trees, the ground, etc. to get infinite healing that way, and others don't.

Who needs trees/the ground etc? You can buy 'pets' for a couple silver pieces each.

Who said kicking puppies wasn't good for you?


Technically Unquiet Grave has unlimited healing too if you use one of the myriad of ways that allows you to be healed by negative energy.


kyrt-ryder wrote:
Seranov wrote:
Silver Crane has "infinite" self healing but it revolves around attacking things. Some DMs don't mind letting players attack trees, the ground, etc. to get infinite healing that way, and others don't.

Who needs trees/the ground etc? You can buy 'pets' for a couple silver pieces each.

Who said kicking puppies wasn't good for you?

I seem to recall your character must remain good-aligned to use Silver Crane abilities.


Only if you Organization into it. Traits or getting it through class features however....


Blackwaltzomega wrote:
kyrt-ryder wrote:
Seranov wrote:
Silver Crane has "infinite" self healing but it revolves around attacking things. Some DMs don't mind letting players attack trees, the ground, etc. to get infinite healing that way, and others don't.

Who needs trees/the ground etc? You can buy 'pets' for a couple silver pieces each.

Who said kicking puppies wasn't good for you?

I seem to recall your character must remain good-aligned to use Silver Crane abilities.

Use Vermin? Pet spiders or scorpions are mindless. [I believe I saw a few vermin in the pet section, could be mistaken.]


You don't even need vermin. Just use punch healing. Punch your ally for a d3+str non-lethal damage and heal them for xd6 lethal and non-lethal damage. Do this over and over again until everyone is topped off.

Dark Archive

Still subject to your DM being like "Cut that out," though. If the DM wants healing to be more difficult to come by, it's easy to prevent that, or just disallow SC entirely.


Indeed. Getting efficient noncombat healing is fairly trivial anyway unless the DM actively makes it impossible to get, so overall, it's not really an issue. A DM who doesn't like healing will ban wands of CLW or Infernal Healing just like he can say no to SC's punch healing.


The unlimited teleportation is not an issue due to being short ranged. The unlimited healing is inconvenient, but not the end of the world (unlimited CLW rituals at 5 gp per cast (5 min casting time), 220 gp upfront cost to learn it. Scrolls and Potions with a craft cost of 30 gp, 55 gp to buy a potion. Top up with CL Temp hp at no SP cost) means there are cheap ways to heal up if the players prepare properly.

Most single attack strikes deal less damage than a full attack, but some strikes such as Flurry Strike and Steel Flurry Strike from BB, or Rapid Strike from RH deal more damage than a full attack as a standard action.

BTW, can Rapid Strike be nerfed to either lose the extra d6 damage, or get a -2 penalty to attack rolls? It is too potent compared to other 2nd level strikes.

Unarmed Dex based TWF with Broken Blade + Thrashing Dragon was over compensated. Deadly Agility basically gives 2 feats in 1 (dex to damage, and full damage with off-hand), Broken Blade Stance gives 2 extra attacks at full bab when full attacking. And then add a boost to get the d6s rolling.

The stuff I feel becomes more problematic in a spheres setting than with vanican, is maneuvers like Curse of Chains (CR) (combine with Reflected Blade Style) paralyzing at You Fail DC (due to Initiation mod as Primary stat, with Discipline Focus, Discipline Weapon, + more) and punching through immunity to paralyze (so Constructs, Plants, Oozes are still likely to fail unless the monster rolls a nat 20). The bonus to saves if normally immune gives at least Dragons and Undead a fair chance of success. There is also Bilious Strike (BS) which deals high damage and inflicts nausea even if the target succeeds its save, or Temporal Wave (RH) for AOE nausea. I hear similar issues can be found with Mystic and Elemental Flux, but I haven't looked over the class/discipline myself yet.

The utility of tactical teleportation and unlimited flight also gains relative value when casters actually have to choose what they want to learn, and then pay build resources to get it.

Some of the counters are also incredibly potent, but Spheres has emergency teleport, so I am fine with those.

Summed up, my issues would be: The Warlord (and the other PoW classes) gain too many (though not by a lot) abilities/features compared to non PoW classes. PoW material is too potent at low levels (1-6). Both giving martials nice things (rides effects, utility stances, etc.), and taking away the nice things casters had, might be going too far (though it is impossible to know without playtesting. There are still enough nice things left for T3 sphere casters).

I am still playing with the thought of allowing Myrmidon and Hidden Blade. All the potential issues of allowing full initiators are still present, but I still think it should be less pronounced than when using the full initiators.

Edit: The CLW scrolls cost the same as potions to craft, due to Sphere casters needed CL = 2x spell level to perform a ritual. I am assuming the cost to learn a ritual is equal to 4x the "market price" of a scroll.


I have been playing a bit around with character creation using Spheres of Power, and here is a 20th level Incanter.

Lirya:

-------------------
Lirya
-------------------
Female Human Incanter 20
NG Medium humanoid (human)
Init +6; Perception +37
-------------------
Defense
-------------------
AC 42, Touch 23, Flat-Footed 38 (+4 Dex, +8 Armor, +6 Shield, +5 Natural, +6 Deflection, +2 Luck, +1 Insight)
Hp 195/195 (20d8+102)
Fort +14, Ref +13, Will +16 (+6 Resistance to all saves)
DR 13/- (0/260 hp absorbed)
Evasion, Jingasa, 75% Fortification
Doesn't need to eat, drink, or breathe
Immune to all divinations, including Wish used to gather information about her.
-------------------
Offense
-------------------
Speed 30 ft.

Ranged Touch +14

Combat Spells
Mass Planeshift (4 Spell Points, 10 targets within 75 ft. DC 33 Will negates. +4 bonus to the saving throw if shifted to a plane with hostile environment)

Mass Steal Time (2 Spell Points, 10 targets within 75 ft. DC 33 Will negates.)

Mass Entrapment (1-3 Spell Points, equivalent of 13 Small creatures within 90 ft. DC 36 Reflex negates. Extra Spell Points double the number of targets, or change the duration from concentration to 1 hour/level.)

Reach Flesh to Stone (3+ Spell Points, Gargantuan creature or smaller within 90 ft. Requires ranged touch attack, and DC 36 Fortitude negates. Extra Spell Points increases duration from 1 round/level to instantaneous, increases maximum size of target to Colossal, or increases the range of the effect. This is a full round action.)

Spell Pool (36/45); CL 26th/21st; DC 36/33; Magic Skill +20 (+24 vs. SR, +22 to Disjoin or Counterspell); Concentration +33; Magic Defense 31

Self Buffs: Aegis of Protection (armor, shield, deflection), Aegis of Obstruction, Resistance, Unplottable, Contigent Freedom.
-------------------
Statistics
-------------------
Str 7 Dex 18 Con 20 Int 36 Wis 12 Cha 8
Base Atk +10; CMB +8; CMD 31
Feats: Cantrips, Extra Magic Talent, Extra Magic Talent, Extra Magic Talent, Reach Spell, Ritual Caster, Spell Penetration, Counterspell, Extra Magic Talent, Extra Magic Talent, Counterspell Mastery, Scribe Scroll, Extra Magic Talent, Contingency, Improved Counterspell, Extra Magic Talent, Extra Magic Talent, Craft Rituals, Extra Magic Talent, Greater Counterspell, Extra Magic Talent, Greater Spell Penetration, Extra Magic Talent, Extra Magic Talent, Extra Magic Talent
Skills: Appraise [1] +20, Profession (barrister, cook, herbalist, sailor)[1] +8, Craft (alchemy, armor, bows, carpentry, clothing, glass, jewelry, locks, painting, sails, sculptures, ships, siege engines, stonemasonry, traps, weapons)[1] +20, Diplomacy [10] +12, Disguise [20] +22, Fly [20] +27, Escape Artist [20] +36, Knowledge (arcana, dungeoneering, local, nature, planes, religion)[20] +39, Knowledge (engineering, geography, history, nobility)[2] +21, Lingustics [1] +20, Perception [20] +37, Sense Motive [20] +28, Spellcraft [20] +39, Stealth [20] +36, Use Magic Device [20] +22
Traits: Fate's Favored, Reactionary
-------------------
Equipment
-------------------
+5 Staff of Alteration, Creation and Protection
+1 Heavy Fortification Bracers of Armor
+6 Headband of Vast Intelligence (Knowledge Nature, Fly, Use Magic Device)
+6 Belt of Mighty Constitution
+5 Tome of Clear Thought
+5 Amulet of Natural Armor
+6 Agile Ring of Greater Slipperiness and Sneaking (+6 Dex, +10 Escape Artist, +10 Stealth)
Ring of Evasion
Jingasa of the Fortunate Soldier
Luckstone
Greater Eyes of the Eagle (+10 Perception)
Portable Hole
Handy Haversack
Ioun Stone - Clear Spindle
Ioun Stone - Dusty Rose Prism
Ioun Stone - Dark Blue Rhomboid
Ioun Stone - Iridescent Spindle
Ioun Stone - Orange Prism
Ioun Stone - Pale Green Prism

Scrolls (30 420 gp worth of crafted scrolls)
Scroll of Limited Wish x2 (3 225 gp)
Scroll of Heal x4 (CL 12th) (4 600 gp)
Scroll of Disintegrate x4 (CL 12th) (4 600 gp)
Scroll of Sending x2 (CL 8th) (900 gp)
Scroll of Echolocation x2 (CL 8th) (900 gp)
Scroll of Life Bubble x2 (CL 8th) (900 gp)
Scroll of Restoration x2 (CL 8th, 100 gp version) (1 100 gp)
Scroll of Phantom Chariot x2 (CL 8th) (900 gp)
Scroll of Fly x8 (CL 6th) (2 000 gp)
Scroll of Tongues x2 (CL 6th) (500 gp)
Scroll of Shrink Item x2 (CL 6th) (500 gp)
Scroll of Water Breathing x2 (CL 6th) (500 gp)
Scroll of Arcane Lock x2 (CL 4th) (270 gp)
Scroll of Glitterdust x8 (CL 4th) (880 gp)
Scroll of See Invisibility x2 (CL 4th) (220 gp)
Scroll of Invisibility x8 (CL 4th) (880 gp)
Scroll of Delay Poison x8 (CL 4th) (880 gp)
Scroll of Lesser Restoration x4 (CL 4th) (440 gp)
Scroll of Knock x4 (CL 4th) (440 gp)
Scroll of Darkvision x4 (CL 4th) (440 gp)
Scroll of Resist Energy x4 (CL 4th) (440 gp)
Scroll of Cure Light Wounds x50 (CL 2nd) (1 500 gp)
Scroll of Mount x4 (CL 2nd) (120 gp)
Scroll of Disguise Self x2 (CL 2nd) (60 gp)

Residuum and Magical Oils for Rituals and Scrolls (6 000 gp; 600 lbs.)
Raise Dead quality Diamond (5 000 gp)
Limited Wish quality Diamond x2 (3 000 gp)
Diamond Dust (6 000 gp)
Gold Dust (1 000 gp)
Silver Mirror (1 000 gp)
Prayer Beads (500 gp)
Divine Offerings (200 gp)
Powdered Silver (200 gp)

Black Pearl (worth 500 gp)
Pink Pearl x2 (worth 100 gp each)
Moonstone (worth 50 gp)

24. gp 7 sp.
-------------------
Mundane Equipment
-------------------
Alchemist Lab

Bedroll
Winter Blanket
Scroll Case
Grappling Hook
Hammer
Small Steel Mirror
Oil (1-pint flask) x4
Paper (50 sheets)
Parchment (50 sheets)
Ink (1 oz. vial) x10
Inkpen
Iron Pot
Silk Rope (100 ft.)
Sealing Wax
Sewing Needle
Shovel
Soap (1 lb.)
Waterskin

Acid x4
Alchemist's Fire x4
Holy Water x4
Antitoxin x10

Silver Holy Symbol of Desna
Silver Holy Symbol of Pharasma

Explorer's Outfit
Scholar's Outfit


Spheres and Rituals:

-------------------
Spheres
-------------------
Tradition [Magical Signs, Somatic Casting (x2), Verbal Casting]
Lirya glowing and sparks fall from her hair whenever she uses a sphere power. She also draws a glowing arcane diagram in the air while speaking mystical words.

Alteration Sphere
Additional Limbs, Avian Transformation, Ranged Alteration, Size Change

Creation Sphere
Expanded Materials, Exquisite Detail, Forge, Change Material, Larger Creation, Distant Creation, Divided Creation, Potent Alteration, Lengthened Creation, Fleshcraft, Fabricate, Create Materials, Permanent Change

Fate Sphere
Freedom

Life Sphere

Protection Sphere
Armored Magic, Community, Luck, Obstruction, Resistance, Unplottable

Time Sphere
Ranged Time, Steal Time, Retry, Group Time

Warp Sphere
Emergency Teleport, Extradimensional Room, Unseeing Teleport, Distant Teleport, Group Teleport, Unwilling Teleport, Ranged Teleport, Create Demiplane, True Teleport, Plane Shift
-------------------
Reach Spell: You can spend spell points and increase the casting time by 1 step (swift to move, standard action to full round action, etc.) to increase the range of your spells.
* 1 Spell Point increases the range of a time spell from Close to Medium.
* 2 Spell Points increases the range of a time spell from Close to Long.
* 1 Spell Point increases the range of a warp spell from Touch to Close.
* 2 Spell Points increases the range of a warp spell from Touch to Medium.
* 3 Spell Points increases the range of a warp spell from Touch to Long.

Aegis of Nondetection: As a standard action, you may spend 1 Spell Point to hide the target from divination magic of any sort. Any magical attempt to gather information of the target automatically fails, even a Wish or a Miracle. In the case of scrying that does not directy view the bearer of this Aegis, the spell or effect works normally, but the creature isn't detected. This lasts for 1 hour per caster level.
Whenever a creature under one of your Aegis spells takes damage, you may spend 1 Spell Point to transfer up to half of that damage to any other creature under one of your Aegis spells as a free action. This damage cannot be resisted or redirected further.
As an Immediate Action, you may dismiss this effect to allow the target to reroll a saving throw they have just made. They must take the second result, even if it is worse.

Aegis of Obstruction: As a standard action, you may spend 1 Spell Point to create a protective blessing that absorbs damage. The target gains DR 13/-. Once this Aegis has absorbed 260 damage, the effect ends even if the duration has not yet expired. The effect normally lasts 1 hour per caster level.
Whenever a creature under one of your Aegis spells takes damage, you may spend 1 Spell Point to transfer up to half of that damage to any other creature under one of your Aegis spells as a free action. This damage cannot be resisted or redirected further.
As an Immediate Action, you may dismiss this effect to allow the target to reroll a saving throw they have just made. They must take the second result, even if it is worse.

Aegis of Protection: As a standard action, you may spend 1 Spell Point to create a protective barrier that grants the target either a +8 Armor Bonus, a +6 Shield Bonus, or a +6 Deflection bonus to AC. This bonus applies against attacks made by incorporeal creatures, and lasts for 1 hour per caster level.
Whenever a creature under one of your Aegis spells takes damage, you may spend 1 Spell Point to transfer up to half of that damage to any other creature under one of your Aegis spells as a free action. This damage cannot be resisted or redirected further.
As an Immediate Action, you may dismiss this effect to allow the target to reroll a saving throw they have just made. They must take the second result, even if it is worse.

Aegis of Resistance: As a standard action, you may spend 1 Spell Point to create a protective blessing that grants the target a +6 Resistance bonus to all saving throws, and lasts for 1 hour per caster level.
Whenever a creature under one of your Aegis spells takes damage, you may spend 1 Spell Point to transfer up to half of that damage to any other creature under one of your Aegis spells as a free action. This damage cannot be resisted or redirected further.
As an Immediate Action, you may dismiss this effect to allow the target to reroll a saving throw they have just made. They must take the second result, even if it is worse.

Barrier: As a standard action, you may create a barrier centered on yourself with a radius of up to 140 ft., but can also be made so small as to only cover yourself. This remains as long as you concentrate, but you may spend 1 Spell Point to allow it to remain for 1 round per caster level. The barrier is a mostly transparent wall at its perimeter, stopping attacks, movement, breath weapons, and any spells or sphere effects that must travel to their destination. Ethereal creatures are stopped by the barrier, but may be able to find a way
around it. The barrier has 30 hit points and a Break DC of 28. If an attack is directed at a target through the barrier, the attack first deals damage to the barrier itself. If this destroys it, it continues to the target. Burst effects such as splash-weapons or fireballs explode at the barrier's edge and must also overcome the barrier's hp to damage targets on the other side. If you maintain your barrier through concentration, its HP is renewed each round on your turn.

Cantrips: As a standard action, you can create a variety of small magical effects within close range. The effects are either instantaneous or have a duration of 1 hour.
* You may make a ranged touch attack, dealing 1d3 acid, electricity, fire, or cold damage to a target.
* You may clean, soil, or color up to 1 cubic ft. of material per round.
* You may create floating lights the size of candle flames and move them up to 20 ft. per round as a free action.
* You may create a spark such as with flint and steel, which may ignite flammable, unattended Fine objects.
* You may open or close a door or container weighing no more than 30 lbs.
* You may chill, warm, or flavor 1 lbs. of nonliving material.
* You may create a strong breeze from whichever direction you choose, strong enough to rustle clothing and flicker candles.
* You may lift objects weighing up to 1 lbs. and move them up to 10 ft. per round.
* You may create small non-speech sounds, such as that of a mouse screeching, soft simple harp music, or the hubbub of a whispered conversation.

Change Material: As a standard action, you may spend a Spell Point to change the composition of an object you are touching from one material to another for 1 round per caster level (26 rounds). You can change the object from and to pretty much anything except Adamantine, and the object cannot exceed your maximum size, although you may target part of an object. You cannot change a liquid into a solid or a solid into a liquid, and you cannot affect gases.
You may spend 1 additional Spell Point to affect magical objects, attended objects, or animate targets such as golems. If used against an attended object, this is treated as a Sunder Maneuver. If used against an animate object, this is a touch attack. If the object or object's wielder is unwilling, they are also allowed a Fortitude save to negate the effect.
You may spend 1 additional Spell Point to affect a living creature. This
requires a touch attack and an unwilling target is allowed a Fortitude save to negate the effect. The target does not die from this, but it does not appear alive unless someone changes the creature back. Any injuries or deformities gained in their altered state carry over to their original forms.
You may spend 1 additional Spell Point to make the object or effect remain for 1 hour per caster level (26 hours).
You may spend 1 additional Spell Point to make the change an instantaneous effect. You cannot create a permanent change involving gems, precious metals, or rare metals.

Contingency: You may spend a spell point and 10 minutes of preparation to use a sphere effect in such a way that it comes into effect under some later condition you have previously dictated. You must pay any Spell Point costs associated with the desired effect and must place the effect on yourself or onto a creature or location within close range. The creature or area must be the target of the Sphere effect.
The condition needed to activate the effect must be clear, but they can
be general. If complicated or convoluted conditions are prescribed, the effect may fail when triggered. The effect occurs based solely on the stated conditions, regardless of whether you want it to.
You may only have one contingency active at a time, any previous contingency effect is dispelled when a new one is created. You always know if your contingency is triggered, even if you are not present. If placed on a location, it is treated as a magical trap with a Perception and Disable Device DC equal to 25 + 1/2 your caster level.
If the contingency remains unused when you regain Spell Points, you may choose to either dispel it or sustain it. If you sustain it, you do not recover the Spell Points used to create the contingency.

Counterspell: As an immediate action, you can spend 2 spell points to attempt to counterspell a spell or magical effect while it is being cast. Make a Magic Skill check against the Magic Defense of the caster of the effect. If you succeed then the targeted effect is destroyed.

Create: As a standard action, you may spend a Spell Point to create one or more non-magical, unattended objects out of just about anything short of Adamantine. The object or objects must have a total size equivalent to 26 Small objects or less (or a Gargantuan object + Huge object + Medium object) and lasts as long as you continue to concentrate, to a maximum of 1 minute per caster level. The object must be completely contained within Close range (90 ft.). You cannot create items that carry special properties or require knowledge you don't possess. A DC 41 Appraise check is needed to reveal the objects you create as magical fakes, and a DC 31 Magic Skill check is required
to notice the magical auras. When making a complex object, you need to also make a craft check with a +26 bonus to the check.
You may spend 1 additional Spell Point to double the size of what you can create, allowing you to create a size equivalent to 52 Small objects or less (or 1 Colossal object + 1 Gargantuan Object + 1 Large Object).
You may spend 1 additional Spell Point to make the object or effect remain for 1 hour per caster level (26 hours).
You may spend 1 additional Spell Points to create as an instantaneous effect. The object created cannot be a complex item, but it can be Fabricated further. You cannot use this to create gems, valuable metals, or rare metals.

Cure: As a standard action, you may spend 1 Spell Point to touch a target and heal it for 1d8+21 damage. This is a positive energy effect, and as such it may be used to harm undead (Will half).

Destroy: As a standard action, you deal 1d4+13 damage to a touched object. This bypasses all hardness, and can be used against objects of pretty much any material except Adamantine.
You may spend 1 additional Spell Point to affect magical objects, attended objects, or animate targets such as golems. If used against an attended object, this is treated as a Sunder Maneuver. If used against an animate object, this is a touch attack. If the object or object's wielder is unwilling, they are also allowed a Fortitude save for half damage.
You may spend 1 additional Spell Point to affect a living creature. This
requires a touch attack and an unwilling target is allowed a Fortitude save negates.

Disjunction: You may spend 1 spell point as a standard action to dispel an existing magical effect on a creature, item, or location within medium range. You may target a specific effect if you have identified it, otherwise the effect with the highest caster level on the target is automatically targeted.
You must succeed a Magic Skill check against the caster or the magical effect in question. If you succeed then the targeted effect is destroyed.
If you target a magic item, the item is not destroyed. Instead the item's magical properties are suppressed for 1d4 rounds, after which the item recovers its magical properties. A suppressed item becomes nonmagical for the duration of the effect. Artifacts and deities are unaffected by dispel magic.
When using Dispel Magic against a creature or object, you may spend 1
additional Spell Point to target up to 4 additional magical effects on the target.
You may also spend 1 additional Spell Point to affect each creature or
object that is the target of a magical effect within a 20-ft. burst. Roll one Magic Skill check and apply that one to each target. If a magical effect overlaps with the area but is not centered within it, apply your Magic Skill check to end that effect, but only within the overlapping area. If an object or creature is the result of ongoing magic (such as most Conjuration Sphere or Creation Sphere effects), apply your Magic Skill check to the effect that summoned them, causing them to disappear (or return to home plane) if successful.
You may also spend 2 additional Spell Points to target all magic within
a 40 ft. radius burst, whether it be magical effects or magical items. If your check succeeds against a magic item, that item's magic is suppressed for 1 minute per caster level. If your check succeeds against a magical effect, the effect is destroyed. You also have a 21% chance of destroying an antimagic field. If the antimagic field survives, no items within it are affected.
You may also spend 2 additional Spell Points, but only target a single
item. Make your Magic Skill check with a +5 bonus against this item. If you succeed, the item is permanently destroyed. Even artifacts are subject to this effect, though there is only a 21% chance of destroying it. If successful, you must make a DC 25 Will save or permanently lose all spellcasting abilities. In addition, destroying an artifact has a 95% chance to attract the attention of some powerful being who has an interest in or connection to the device.

Emergency Teleport: You may spend a spell point to teleport 50 ft. as an immediate action. If used to avoid an attack or area effect, this grants the target evasion and a +10 dodge bonus to AC and Reflex saves. You may affect other creatures within close range.

Extradimensional Room: As a standard action, you may create a small pocket dimension, accessible through a shimmering portal that either appears in the air before you or on a touched, reasonably flat surface. The pocket dimension measures one 10-foot cube per caster level, arranged as you wish so long as the space is continuous. You can make the entrance as small as a 5 ft. square or as large as a 10 ft. square. You can select its light level and temperature (from -40 F to 120 F), but otherwise it is a featureless location.
The space only exists while you are inside it, unless you spend 1 spell
point to allow it to remain for up to 1 round per caster level. If the portal is placed on the ground or in some other way an unwilling creature might fall in, the creature is allowed a Reflex save to evade. Climbing the walls of this room requires a DC 20 Climb check.
When this ability expires or is dispelled, all objects and creatures
within this space are harmlessly ejected through the portal.
You may spend 3 Spell Points to create the room as an instantaneous effect. Alternatively, you may use this ability to create a new portal to a permanent demiplane you have previously created. You may close a portal to your demiplane as a free action. If you use this ability while within your demiplane, you may either permanently increase its size by an additional 10 ft. cube per caster level, or add or remove one of the following traits to the entire demiplane.
* Basic Choices: The demiplane can be filled with air or water (your choice), and could have an earth, stone, water, or wood floor. The "walls" and "ceiling" of the plane may appear like solid earth, stone, wood, or water, or they may end in mist, a featureless void, or a similar unreal-looking border. While it is still generally featureless, you may transplant plants or animals to your demiplane to create an ecosystem and manipulate the earth, water, and/or stone of the demiplane as you would any other materials.
* Energy: You may grant your demiplane the (minor) negative or positive
dominant energy trait. A plane cannot have both the negative dominant and positive dominant energy traits.
* Magic: You may grant your plane the dead magic, enhanced magic, impeded magic, or wild magic planar trait. If you select dead magic, you are affected along with everything else and cannot cast on your plane. If you select enhanced or impeded magic, choose one type of magic to be enhanced or impeded. A plane cannot be enhanced and impeded for the same kinds of magic.
* Morphic: Your plane reacts to your thoughts; By concentrating for 1 minute, you may adjust a 150 ft. square (10 ft. deep) portion of earth, stone, or plantlife, shaping it however you will. This isn't fast enough to deal damage or trap creatures.
* Portal: You may grant your demiplane a permanent gate to one location on another plane, which can only be used from planar travel. This location must be very familiar to you. This gate is always open and usable from both sides, but may be secured by normal means.
* Time: You may make your plane have erratic time, flowing time (at half or double speed), or timeless trait.
* Alignment: You can make your plane (mildly) good or neutral aligned.
* Elemental: You may grant your plane the air, earth, fire, or water
dominant trait.
* Gravity: By default a demiplane's gravity is normal and oriented in one direction. You may adjust the plane's gravity to heavy, light, none, objectively directional, or subjectively directional.
* Shape: By default, the demiplane has a fixed shape and borders. You may make your plane self-contained so it loops upon itself when a creature reaches one edge. You may designate areas or locations on the edges of your plane where this occurs, or apply it to the entire plane.
* Structure: You may give your demiplane a specific linked physical structure, such as a giant tree, floating castle, labyrinth, mountain, and so on.

Forge: As a standard action, you may spend a Spell Point to shape material with a touch. This is an instantaneous effect. You can only affect materials you can create, and you may only make crude changes and create basic shapes. Detailed work (such as forging armor) is not possible, and there is a 30% chance anything with moving shapes does not work. When working with a mineral (stone, metals, gems, etc.) the size you may affect is reduced by half.
You may spend 1 additional Spell Point to affect a living creature. You may sculpt a creature in the following ways.
* You can remove or restore an arm, leg, or tail. While you can add a limb to a creature that wasn't missing one, these extra limbs are too weak to hold things or be used to attack.
* You may remove or restore a sense: sight, hearing, touch, taste, or smell.
* You may deal 2d6 Constitution damage to the creature.
You may spend 1 additional Spell Point to create items of great detail. You must pass the appropriate skill check (with a +26 bonus if it is craft) to make complex items and work at a rate of 1 round per 10 cubic feet. You can only work with materials you can create. If you are also spending a Spell Point to affect a living creature, you can use this to change the creature's appearance permanently. Make a Disguise check if you are attempting to mimic a specific creature.

Freedom: You may spend a spell point to free a single creature within Close range. You must concentrate to maintain this ability, to a maximum of 1 round per caster level. You may spend an additional spell point to allow this ability to continue for 1 round per caster level without concentration.
The target may move and attack normally, even when under the influence
of magic and effects that would otherwise impede movement. This includes
paralysis, slow effects, entanglement, etc. All combat maneuver checks made to grapple the target automatically fail, and the subject automatically succeeds on any combat maneuver checks and Escape Artist checks made to escape a grapple or a pin. The subject may even move and attack normally while underwater, provided that the weapon is wielded in the hand rather than hurled. This does not however grant waterbreathing.

Hallow: Spend 1 spell point to give a creature within Close Range a +3 sacred bonus to attack rolls, AC, and saving throws made against evil targets. This bonus lasts for 1 minute per level.
The target also gains immunity to any effect that possesses or exercises mental control over them, so long as the effect originates from an evil creature. If the target is already under the influence of such an effect, the target is allowed to make a new saving throw against the controlling effect. Success means the effect is suppressed for the duration of this word, but resumes when the word expires.

Haste: You grant a creature within close range the ability to make an extra attack at its highest BAB whenever it makes a full attack action. You must concentrate to maintain this effect, but may spend 1 spell point as a free action to allow it to remain for 1 round per level without concentration.
By spending 1 spell point, you may target up to 10 creatures within range.

Invigorate: As a standard action, you may touch a creature, granting it 21 temporary hit points. Unlike normal hit points, this ability can only be used on an injured target and cannot raise a target's current hit points plus temporary hit points higher than their maximum hit points. This benefit lasts for 1 hour.

Repair: As a standard action, you heal a damaged object for 1d4+13 hit points. This does not restore warped or transmuted items, but it can still repair damage done to such items.
You may spend 1 additional Spell Point to affect magical objects, attended objects, or animate targets such as golems. If used against an attended object, this is treated as a Sunder Maneuver. If used against an animate object, this is a touch attack. If the object or object's wielder is unwilling, they are also allowed a Fortitude save for half damage.
You may spend 1 additional Spell Point to affect a living creature. This
requires a touch attack and an unwilling target is allowed a Fortitude save negates.

Restore: As a standard action, you may spend 1 Spell Point to touch a target and restore their physical and mental health. This accomplishes the following.
* Heals 1d4 points of ability damage to one ability score of your choice.
* Removes the fatigued condition or lesses exhaustion to fatigue.
* Removes the sickened condition or lessens nauseated to sickened.
* Removes the shaken condition or lessens frightened to shaken, or panicked to frightened.
* Removes the staggered condition.
* Removes the dazzled condition.
If the condition is part of an on-going effect, this suppresses the effect for a number of rounds equal to your caster level. This cannot be used to remove curses.

Retry: You may spend 2 spell points as an immediate action to force a target to redo their turn (Will negates if unwilling). The target is returned to where their turn began, and any skill checks, attack rolls, movement, attacks of opportunity, etc. that occured during their turn become as if they never happened. The target may perform the same actions again (remaking any rolls required by such actions), or they may choose completely different actions. If you choose to redo your own turn in this manner, you do not recover the action or spell points spent using this ability.

Serendipity: All allies within 20 ft. of you gain a +1 luck bonus to attack rolls, skill checks, ability checks, and saving throws. This bonus lasts as long as you concentrate. You may spend 1 spell point as a free action to allow this effect to continue for 1 round per level without concentration.

Shapeshift: As a standard action, you may change the form of yourself or a creature within Close range for as long as you concentrate. If the target is unwilling, this costs a spell point, and they are allowed a Fortitude save to negate. You may spend a spell point to allow a shapeshift to remain for 1 minute per caster level without concentration. You may dismiss your shapeshift as a free action. You must choose a form and grant up to 6 traits to the target.
Avian Form: The target gains the form of a flying animal or magical beast. The target gains a head, 2 legs, 2 wings, and a 30 ft. land speed. The target gains low-light vision and 2 talon attacks (Primary, 1d4) and +7 natural AC bonus. The target gains a fly speed of 110 ft. (poor).
Blank Form: The target retains its own form.
Talents
* Darkvision 60 ft.
* Low-light vision.
* An extra pair of arms. Multiple times.
* A prehensile tail, which may hold objects as if it were a hand, and retrieve objects from a belt or pouch as a swift action. Multiple times.
* 1 Tail Slap attack (secondary, 1d6; requires tail). Multiple times.
* 1 Stinger attack (primary, 1d4, requires tail). Multiple times.
* A pair of legs. This grants a 20 ft. land speed if the target didn't possess one. If this is not the form's first pair of legs, the target gains +4 CMD bonus against trip attempts. If this causes the target to become a quadruped, they gain increased carrying capacity and may serve as a mount for creatures smaller than itself.
* An extra head.
* 2 Claw attacks (primary, 1d4; requires arms). Multiple times.
* 1 Bite attack (primary, 1d6; requires head). Multiple times.
* 1 Gore attack (primary, 1d6; requires head). Multiple times.
* 2 Slam attacks (primary, 1d4; requires arms). Multiple times.
* 2 Pincers (secondary, 1d6; requires arms). Multiple times.
* 2 Talon attacks (primary, 1d4; requires both legs and a means of being airborne)
* 2 Wing attacks (secondary, 1d4; requires wings)
* Cosmetic change such as apparent age, race, sex and so on. Grants +10 Disguise. Only works with Blank Form, as other forms gain it automatically.
* Size change, enlarging or reducing the target up to six categories. Minimum size reduced to is Diminutive, while maximum size enlarged to is Huge.
* 2 wings, granting a fly speed of 110 ft. (poor).

Slow: You cause a creature within close range to become staggered (Will negates). You must concentrate to maintain this effect, but may spend 1 spell point as a free action to increase its duration to 1 round per caster level.
By spending 1 spell point, you may target up to 10 creatures within range.

Steal Time: You may spend a spell point to attempt to erase the turn of a creature within close range from existence. The target is dazed for 1 round (Will negates). If successful, you immediately gain an additional standard action. Even if you successfully target multiple creatures in the same round with this ability, you cannot gain more than a single standard action in a round in this manner.
By spending 1 spell point, you may target up to 10 creatures within range.

Teleport: You can spend a standard action to teleport yourself and up to a heavy load to any place within close range. Alternatively, you may teleport a willing creature within close range and their carried equipment instead of yourself. You must have line of sight to your destination.
You may spend 1 Spell Point to increase your teleport range to long.
You may spend 1 Spell Point to no longer require line of sight.
You may spend 1 Spell Point to teleport an unwilling creature. You must
succeed a touch attack against the target, and the target is allowed a Will save to negate the teleportation. An unwilling creature can only be teleported into open areas on solid surfaces. They also gain a +4 bonus to their saving throw if the location would be directly harmful to them.
You may spend 1 Spell Point to teleport up to 10 additional targets. If
combined with Unwilling Teleport, you only need to spend 1 additional Spell Point, no matter how many unwilling creatures you target.
You may spend 2 Spell Points to teleport to an alternate dimension or plane of existence. You must know the plane you are trying to reach as well as where within that plane you would like to appear (if you do not know a specific location, you may end up anywhere on that plane). You always appear 5 x 1d100 miles from your intended destination.
You may spend 2 additional Spell Points to increase the range to 100 miles per caster level. You must have some clear idea of the location and layout of the destination. Roll a d100 on the familiarity table to determine where you end up.
-------------------
Rituals Mastered (141 pages of rituals) (Worth 186 222 gp)
-------------------
7th- Greater Restoration, Limited Wish
6th- Heal, Disintegrate
5th- Atonement, Break Enchantment, Raise Dead
4th- Divination, Neutralize Poison, Restoration, Scrying, Sending, Phantom Chariot, Echolocation, Planar Adaption, Life Bubble
3rd- Nondetection, Remove Blindness/Deafness, Remove Curse, Remove Disease, Fly, Tongues, Shrink Item, Water Breathing, Speak with Dead, Marionette Possession, Seek Thoughts, Mindlocked Messenger
2nd- Arcane Lock, Glitterdust, See Invisibility, Invisibility, Delay Poison, Lesser Restoration, Knock, Share Memory, Darkvision, Resist Energy
1st- Alarm, Endure Elements, Cure Light Wounds, Mount, Disguise Self,
Ant Haul, Bless Water, Identify
0 - Create Water, Detect Magic, Purify Food and Drink, Read Magic
-------------------
Ritual Costs and Time
Level . . Cost . . Time
0 . . . . . 1 gp . . 1 minute
1 . . . . . 5 gp . . 5 minutes
2 . . . . . 10 gp . . 10 minutes
3 . . . . . 25 gp . . 30 minutes
4 . . . . . 50 gp . . 1 hour
5 . . . . 100 gp . . 2 hours
6 . . . . 250 gp . . 4 hours
7 . . . . 500 gp . . 8 hours
8 . . . . 1 000 gp . . 1 day
9 . . . . 2 500 gp . . 2 days

Ritual Components generally considered to consists of Residuum and Magical Oils. Some rituals require other special components which need to be located separately.
-------------------
Cost of buying and adding a new ritual to your ritual book.
-------------------
Level Cost
0 - 54 gp
1st- 220 gp
2nd- 840 gp
3rd- 1 900 gp
4th- 3 400 gp
-------------------
Cost of Researching a new Ritual
-------------------
5th- 12 500 gp
6th- 18 000 gp
7th- 24 500 gp
8th- 32 000 gp
9th- 40 500 gp

The general idea is to pick up the Time Sphere effects the first few levels to get a really powerful combat option that will scale as you level (A single target steal time is basically a 27th level Wizard encounter power in 4e. Make it an aoe, and chances are you will seriously change the action economy in your favor). Next pick up Emergency Teleport, and then start working on Alteration, Creation, or Protection.

At 20th level, this is clearly less powerful than the Astral Projecting (from personal demiplane), Mind Blanked, Invisible, Wizard with an army of Gated/Planar Bound outsiders, using Dazing Spell and other You Lose effects if forced to engage directly with an enemy.

But it is still a 20th level mage. Now with a Disjunction that has a much greater chance of shutting down enemy magic items (unless your target dumped his will save), while having a much smaller chance of shutting down enemy buffs (poor fighter, lost all his trinkets for the next 20 minutes or so).

Creating just about anything out of nothing permanently (or have it last for more than a day if it is made out of gems, mithral, gold, and so on), is bound to be useful. Especially since anything created is going to be of way higher quality than any mundane master craftsman could ever hope to achieve (Making DC 56 while taking 10 is scary on a nonmythic character with only 1 rank in the skill).

I should have used wealth on a staff for Time and Warp as well, but I had already calculated the wealth before I realized this and I do not feel like rebuilding that part. Also, Creation should be able to break WBL easily if you put half a mind to it with Permanent Creation and Fabricate. Creating a fully kitted out War Galley out of nothing shouldn't take more than 5 hours or so, and should be easy to sell for 15 000 - 20 000 gp if you teleport to pirate land/evil empire in need of a navy first. Also, creating art of various kinds should be an option in theory, and masterwork weapons and armor (out of steel) should also fetch a pretty penny. You would have to travel a bit and vary what you create though, as no GM would accept someone trying to sell 100 000 masterwork daggers swiftly at normal selling price for masterwork weapons.

So yeah, my guess is an Incanter is low T2 or high T3 even using the costs and availability I am suggesting for rituals. Some of those advanced talents do create effects that may affect your campaign world, though it is to a much lesser degree than a vanican caster with 9th level spells could.

As for other classes, the Elementalist looks like it really wants a 2 level dip in magus, and after looking at it I think that is fine. (I don't think any magus would want to take more than 2 levels before jumping over to Elementalist, now that Arcane Deed has been killed by errata). The Mage Knight looks fine, as Mystic Combat options are awesome, while the Armorist feels to me like it was balanced too much against the fighter instead of paladin or ranger. Some of the 3/4 casters feel like they are lacking in combat compared to a Sphere Inquisitor, Sphere Bard, or Sphere Hunter. But I haven't looked close enough to say for certain yet.

I am still of a mind that most of the vanican casters with 9th level spells should be replaced with sphere classes instead of using their sphere archetypes. The sphere wizard is pretty much an identical copy of what an Incanter might look like, while Cleric + Druid both have an incredible chassis with full casting, armor proficiency, d8 HD, two good saves, and class abilities together with more than 1 magic talent per level is solid. Then again, it isn't likely to be a problem so I don't really care.

I guess my fears that Path of War is too powerful for Spheres has lessened. The Incanter at least is a powerhouse I would not feel bad about playing in any group as long as there isn't a vanican caster with 9th level spells in the party who played by a competent person and is going all out.


My opinion is that the conjuration sphere is balanced overall. Yes, it's a bit nerfed, but I think it's made up for with the fact that you can heavily customize a companion or even give it access to spheres as well as monster feats.

Take this build, for example. A level 1 Soul Weaver (I helped design that class, BTW) chooses to begin with the Deathsphere, and the drawback to never you Ghost Strike. (so can only animate dead) giving her 3 talents. She chooses the conjuration sphere, which comes with one form talent for her first companion. She decides to make a Wolf called "Fury". She uses it's bonus form as "Altered Size" to make it large and uses her remaining two talents to give it Elemental Creature (fire) and Magical Companion.

Fury, being a level 1 caster, has one feat which he decides to use on Spheres. His first Sphere is weather, but takes the drawback to be restricted to only increasing heat. He now has his talent back. He then takes the Destruction sphere and takes the drawback to be restricted to close range attacks only and the drawback to using only one one element for Destructive Blast, which he sets to be fire. He then takes "Energy Blade" with his remaining feat.

The Soul Weaver, as a human, gets two feats to start with. She decides to put both of them into "Extra Magical Talent" which allows her to have her companion out all the time.

This min maxing is very powerful, yes, but ultimately you end up with a level 1 character who put all of her abilities into the creation of a single companion. She only has to use 3 spell points a day for a companion that can can deal 2D6 + 1D3 + 3 bite damage at a time, which is VERY powerful, especially since the target can also catch fire, but that's pretty much the only thing she can do. It is more expensive than just getting an animal companion, but it has the advantage of more damage and better control so I think that it's a better choice than an animal companion. It can also talk!

From there though it's power will mellow off. The companion gains magical levels slowly so it would probably be better off just going for feats. For example, at caster level 3 it will get a new feat which it could use for "Jaw Lock" to allow it to grapple an opponent it bites thus giving it a chance to do more than just damage, but this won't deal any more damage either. Unless the caster wants to put more and more talents into that companion it will eventually be reduced to a mount with limited battle function - although definitely a good place for a summoner to be!

I disagree with the idea that the conjurer can create an unstoppable army though. The form abilities have to be taken for every single new companion.

So, for example, let's say that at level 2 she decides she wants a new companion. It will come with a form ability of it's own, so lets say she uses that form to give it Lingering Companion. Combined with the Greater Summoning ability which does apply to all Companions she really could have a new companion every single level. By level 20 she would have 29 companions each with 15 HD! Or if she uses all her feats to get new companions she can even have a total of 25! However, they would be little more than meat shields. With standard stats and starting abilities, each would have 1D6 damage per attack. If she put all ability score adjustments into strength it would be a mere 1D6 + 3 damage tops per companion *AND* she would have to spend 60 spell points to actually be able to summon them all! The problem is she will never get that many! Even if she rolled an 18 on her charisma, and put every modifier into it, she would never have enough spell points to Summon all of her companions. Even if she could, and even if she had one riding another (think Minions riding wolves in Overlord - which would be really cool, come to think of it!) there would be too many to fit on a typical battlefield.

But lets say that she gets to level 20, puts a point in charisma every time she gets an ability score increase, and wears a Cloak of Epic Charisma (+9) at level 20. Her charisma score would be 32 which would make her modifier +11 which would allow her 31 spell points a day. Half the points she would need.

If she instead took 9 feats in "Extra Skill Points" she could have at most 49 spell points at level 20 (including maxed ability scores and cloak of charisma +9) which would allow her to summon a maximum of 16 companions (17 if she used her two bonus feats for more spell points), but she herself would be vulnerable, would not be able to do anything herself, and although there are class abilities that could be particularly damaging (10d6 channel negative energy) when you compare this to what another character can do at the same level (10D6 Destructive blast that is immune to antimagic fields and ignores spell resistance) it would not be in her best interest to conjure an army. (in fact, said destructive blast set as a burst could destroy that entire army and you with it all in one attack!) She would certainly benefit from having multiple companions, and it would be kind of cool to see one companion riding another, but the most I would make would be, maybe, 7 companions. One to ride myself, and 3 to ride the remaining 3. It would only cost 21 spell points to call that many and if I invest in a Death Sphere ability every other level and/or augment the power of the companions I could with that combination have an army of sorts and it would be more balanced with another character of the same level.

Ultimately, this example shows that even with min/maxing to get the most number of companions with the most power it is still balanced in the context of the game.

Although over powered could mean many things. For example, I designed a "Wonderous Ring of Tavern Summoning" which can call into being a finely crafted Tavern for 16 hours a day, where all the materials come from one portable hole, and to have a store room with up to 120 pounds of food and mead which can be restocked, all for the low price of 78,000 Gold. Seriously, the ability to summon a tavern from a ring to always have a place to stay would be amazing and would probably pay for itself.


spheres of power wrote:
sphere-specific drawbacks grant the target an extra magic talent in their prerequisite sphere.

I really don't think you are allowed to use sphere-specific drawbacks to gain base spheres for "free".

As for overpowered, Advanced Talents and Ritual Casting are the options that have really powerful effects. Base Conjuration Sphere will at best give your either a single Fighter who might be better than most Fighters, or an army of Warriors without wealth. While useful, none of these options are actually "powerful" in the T3+ way.

Advanced Conjuration = Planar Binding, Advanced Creation allows you to create real stuff out of nothing (which is easily used to break WBL, even though you are not allowed to create valuable metals or gems), Advanced Death allows most of the high level necromancy options such as Astral Projection, while Advanced Divination gives you access to the actually good divinations.

However, apart from Advanced Conjuration (which is only a 3 talent dip in theory), getting all the good Advanced Talents of a sphere (or in some cases, enough basic talents to make good use of the Advanced Talent) requires an investment of about 10 magic talents. A 20th level Incanter might have around 40 magic talents.

Ritual Casting + Scrolls is powerful, in the same way the Wizard getting Scribe Scroll at 1st level is powerful, or how grabbing Scribe Scroll as a Cleric is very much worth the feat. Having a stack of spells at your disposal for when you need a specific utility spell, or your normal spell loadout (spheres) are not applicable is useful. Ritual Casting is also a cheap and easy way to cast huge amounts of low level spells if time is not an issue.

So yeah, a well played Sphere Caster can be overpowered and break the world, but the Sphere Caster can never be the Wizard who is Astral Projecting from a private demi-plane, protected by Mind-Blank + Invisibility, with access to infinite wealth, using divinations to make precision strikes, and gating in an army of CR 20+ outsiders/simulacrum to do all the real work. Instead, the "broken" Sphere Caster chooses two of the above options and sticks to those.

51 to 75 of 75 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | next > last >>
Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Third-Party Pathfinder RPG Products / Advice and Rules Questions / Thoughts of Spheres of Power, and some Akashic and PoW All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.
Recent threads in Advice and Rules Questions