1) I'm considering that my party make up (around 6-8 people) will probably NOT want to be from Restov or Brevory for that matter. (At least I don't think they will...) So should I consider changing the campaign traits offered in the players guide.
2) I kind of want to give them a little extra help if they might need it in the form of a "fallen" celestial that's basically a willow wisp with celestial powers that grows.
Thoughts?
How about a cassisan angel for the celestial help. Flavorful, etc., and less powerful than a wisp. With 6-8 people you probably want a source of advice and knowledge and a guidance thing, rather than an additional combat type. Wisps are pretty powerful.
If you want to change the campaign traits, go right ahead. Try and think in terms of _roles_ for traits -- give them some ideas of what people might want to do, and a trait that's useful for those roles and will either help them a lot early on, or else continue to be useful for a while.
How about a cassisan angel for the celestial help. Flavorful, etc., and less powerful than a wisp. With 6-8 people you probably want a source of advice and knowledge and a guidance thing, rather than an additional combat type. Wisps are pretty powerful.
Well I figure "wisp" in the sense it's more of a 'puff' of smoke rather than actual will o wisp. Cassian Angel IS one of the things I'm considering have it evolve into...but mostly later on some kind of powerful celestial guardian to help with the city. And maybe do a few spellcasting stuff. Plus I have this rp idea where it was originally a powerful named solar but it fought with a equally powerful fiend (pit fiend, or else daemon maybe. Possible Balor). The point is the fight drained them of their spiritual essence and the evil spirit 'infects' a lizard, turning it into a fiendish linnorm for the PCs to fight later.
If you want to change the campaign traits, go right ahead. Try and think in terms of _roles_ for traits -- give them some ideas of what people might want to do, and a trait that's useful for those roles and will either help them a lot early on, or else continue to be useful for a while.
Well I think that maybe I'll let them roll on the table that Ultimate Campaign has for class traits perhaps. Just as a way to help them get an idea.
Take a page from Game of Thrones for your campaign and apply it liberally to Brevoy, if you're up for homebrewing your own expansion to the as-written campaign. Don't forget to look at a bunch of the other board-posted homebrewed materials for Kingmaker, there are some VERY good ones out there!
Take a page from Game of Thrones for your campaign and apply it liberally to Brevoy, if you're up for homebrewing your own expansion to the as-written campaign. Don't forget to look at a bunch of the other board-posted homebrewed materials for Kingmaker, there are some VERY good ones out there!
Well the thing is I'm not sure the PCs WANT to be involved with any one nation.
But I am considering using some resources mentioned about hex encounters, especially since I'm creating one myself.
Take a page from Game of Thrones for your campaign and apply it liberally to Brevoy, if you're up for homebrewing your own expansion to the as-written campaign. Don't forget to look at a bunch of the other board-posted homebrewed materials for Kingmaker, there are some VERY good ones out there!Well the thing is I'm not sure the PCs WANT to be involved with any one nation.
But I am considering using some resources mentioned about hex encounters, especially since I'm creating one myself.
Depending on how you spin things, they are in debt up to their eyeballs to their feudal lords in Brevoy. They kinda owe big pile of debts tangible and intangible to the fellas back home/up north with actual armies and whatnot.
I'm definitely curious as to how you plan to spin things for their start-up.
I recently started a new Kingmaker game where I let my party create their own (decidedly minor) noble house to originate from. One of the PCs is a young lordling -- second in line to inherit, needs to prove himself, etc -- and the others are the loyal bodyguard, the hired retainers, the family spirit guardian, and so on. It is working very well so far, better than my other group that I had using the campaign traits. They've all gotten into the spirit of saying, "Look, my lord!" and "Run, my lord! Save yourself!"
So you don't have to feel bound to the campaign traits as printed; in fact, it might be better to come up with a more coherent reason the party know each other and are working together. If you don't think they want to be involved in Brevic politics, perhaps they could all be part of a mercenary band, or have ties to an organized crime group, or many other things.
You could also check out Dudemeister's Toolbox thread for some other reasons a Kingmaker party might come together: http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2kpjz?My-Kingmaker-Toolbox#1
In terms of extra help, it is truly not too hard of an adventure path for a party of six (even using the 6-player conversion), and the players should be able to figure most things out just by exploring. You might want to start out without the extra help and then see if you think they need it.
Well I definitely LIKE what Dudemeister's Toolbox has to offer, Vivificent. It's certain something I'll print out and possibly tweak to my own liking.
As for the celestial...it was just a cool idea I wanted to play with. It won't actually GO with them all the time. But who know? I might not need it is right.
Thank you guys so far. :)
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I second the advice given above...
You may find it helpful to have a pre-campaign character building session as a group. During his time, show the players the different roles, and get them to hash out who is planning to be what role BEFORE they make their character. That way they can tailor their backstory, traits, etc towards their role. This made a big difference in our game... queen took natural born leader, general took ranks of soldier, marshall worshipped abadar and took eyes and ears of the city, etc, etc...
IMHO, a group of 6-8 in Kingmaker not only doesn't need any help power-wise, past 2-3rd level they are going to readily handle most of the standard encounters. Almost everything in Kingmaker is 1 fight per day, unless you work to change that. Which means, the players soon learn they can just nova with everything they have, then safely rest and recover. This was a challenge I had to really work at, and ended up throwing night sounds, random weird animal movements in the bushes, etc at them to at least make them nervous and have to think twice about not saving one of those big spells or abilities in reserve.
I think part of the allure of Kingmaker is knowing you could run into something really scary at 1st level and have to run. This brings a much greater level of satisfaction when the players finally tame the Stolen Lands and carve their kingdom from the wilderness. There should be a chance of some random challenges they have to run from. If you give them a potent ally, I am not sure that happens. I suggest giving them an advisor, but not one that can assist in combat. An elder statesman with gout, a gnome sage, etc...
However, you know your group best, so maybe this gives a comfort level that helps game play.
Lastly, if they are not entangled with Brevoy, I recommend giving them at least a few kingdoms to have political interaction with,both positive and negative. Otherwise things in Book 5 are as obvious as a mack truck at a tricycle rally... :)
I'll keep that in mind, Red.
Right now I'm just working out personalities based on who I think will be in this party.
Not that I'm 100% sure that will happen but we'll see.
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If I were to run Kingmaker again, I'd have 1st level PCs start as employees of higher level nobles from Brevoy. It's the nobles who are starting the new colony. Why would the ante if gov trust a bunch of newbs to do it?
This would give you and excuse to ha e PCs be from all over, and give them some help... At first. I had to do major revision to keep it challenging g for my group of 6. With noble bosses, they'd have some help at first, and more resources than they ought to, but then the bosses get killed and the low-level misfit PCs have to save the day and keep the colony going.
PCs-as-employees also allows players to chose roles for their characters like 'medic' or 'cool' or 'cartographer.' I used a whole system of roles and small bonuses for my players. They liked it and it helped prep them for kingdom leadership roles later.
Mosiac,
I am considering using what you put up in your thread as a way to see what roles the PCs would like. The whole problem I have is tying the PCs to ANYTHING noble when it feels like to me they're pretty...untested when it comes to building anything.
That being said, I WILL consider having an NPC noble (either from Brevoy or somewhere else) but I don't think I'll tie them to the Campaign traits.
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it feels like to me they're pretty...untested when it comes to building anything.
That's why I'd have my PCs start as hirelings next time. Doesn't take much to been the cook on a minor noble's expedition. Or a herald. Or just a guard. Or a petty thief who's ducking the law and hires on as a valet. But when the main guys (the NPC nobles and his retainers) get wiped out in a bandit attack or something, it falls to the non-heroic PCs to become heroes and save the expedition. After a few successes, a reluctant Brevoy might recognize them as the legitimate mission just to save face.
Totally up to you and there are a million ways to start Kingmaker - like maybe they are a rag-tag bunch of crusade veterans who are part of a more general landrush into the Stolen Lands, or outcasts who have banded together to build a homeland for other outcasts in the wilds of the River Kingdoms, or a band of thieves sent by a criminal organization to establish a chokepoint on the Sellen River - but they still probably need some kind of sponsor, no matter what.
So my thought is if the PCs need resources to build their kingdom, they might stumble across an abandoned mine or something like that.
Which is why I didn't think they needed a sponsor since they'll have the resources they'll need.
If they DO want a sponsor...then I'll see about maybe going your route, Mosaic. I am very heavily considering using your role suggestions along with DM_Ak_Dudemeister's 'character/party sheet" as a way to focus them down AND make the game more fun.
I've also decided I don't want ANYONE taking levels in Aristocrat unless it's necessary or they want to take it.
So anyway that's basically my thought process atm.
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The "build up from raw resources" thing should be a blast if the characters have some structure in their builds to support it. Background Skills from Unchained should aid this immensely. It will do the one thing that the as-written AP doesn't do: take a long, long time in-game. As it should be. :)
The "build up from raw resources" thing should be a blast if the characters have some structure in their builds to support it. Background Skills from Unchained should aid this immensely. It will do the one thing that the as-written AP doesn't do: take a long, long time in-game. As it should be. :)
Well my plan is to let them have access to either ore and/or wood skilled carving to help with the initial startup. That plus the actual gold might come along later.
I hadn't thought of using the Unchained Background skills. That might be worth looking into.
Mosaic,
I plan to. I just need to get some basics from my players.
Just a slight update:
Right now I have one person considering being a half orc gunslinger.
Name unknown but some possible humorous ones: Orklawz Josy Whales.