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6 people marked this as FAQ candidate.
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Okay, so I saw only one other post about this and it was only 2 comments long...one guy asking and one guy saying no.
I wanted to look a bit further into it and was confused by both the logic presented in explaining why it wouldn't work, and the way extradimensional spaces are explained in the rules...
Called Weapon Property wrote:
A called weapon can be teleported to the wielder's hand as a swift action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity, even if the weapon is in the possession of another creature. This ability has a maximum range of 100 feet, and effects that block teleportation prevent the return of a called weapon. A called weapon must be in a creature's possession for at least 24 hours for this ability to function.
Bag of Holding wrote:
This appears to be a common cloth sack about 2 feet by 4 feet in size. The bag of holding opens into a nondimensional space: its inside is larger than its outside dimensions.
Regardless of what is put into the bag, it weighs a fixed Amount. This weight, and the limits in weight and volume of the bag's contents, depend on the bag's type, as shown on the table below.
If a bag of holding is overloaded, or if sharp objects pierce it (from inside or outside), the bag immediately ruptures and is ruined, and all contents are lost forever. If a bag of holding is turned inside out, all of its contents spill out, unharmed, but the bag must be put right before it can be used again. If living creatures are placed within the bag, they can survive for up to 10 minutes, after which time they suffocate. Retrieving a specific item from a bag of holding is a move action, unless the bag contains more than an ordinary backpack would hold, in which case retrieving a specific item is a full-round action. Magic items placed inside the bag do not offer any benefit to the character carrying the bag.
If a bag of holding is placed within a portable hole, a rift to the Astral Plane is torn in the space: bag and hole alike are sucked into the void and forever lost. If a portable hole is placed within a bag of holding, it opens a gate to the Astral Plane: the hole, the bag, and any creatures within a 10-foot radius are drawn there, destroying the portable hole and bag of holding in the process.
Extradimensional Spaces wrote:
A number of spells and magic items utilize extradimensional spaces, such as rope trick, a bag of holding, a handy haversack, and a portable hole. These spells and magic items create a tiny pocket space that does not exist in any dimension. Such items do not function, however, inside another extradimensional space. If placed inside such a space, they cease to function until removed from the extradimensional space. For example, if a bag of holding is brought into a rope trick, the contents of the bag of holding become inaccessible until the bag of holding is taken outside the rope trick. The only exception to this is when a bag of holding and a portable hole interact, forming a rift to the Astral Plane, as noted in their descriptions.
Teleportation wrote:
a teleportation spell transports one or more creatures or objects a great distance. The most powerful of these spells can cross planar boundaries. Unlike summoning spells, the transportation is (unless otherwise noted) one-way and not dispellable.
Teleportation is instantaneous travel through the Astral Plane. Anything that blocks astral travel also blocks teleportation.
I went ahead and bolded the important parts.
So what I am confused about is that the Bag of Holding is stated to have a nondimensional space, though is referenced as having an extradimensional space as well as a portable hole, which, when both interact with eachother creates a gate or rift (respectively) to/in the Astral Plane. The teleportation rules define teleporting as traveling through the Astral Plane, and the Called weapon property uses a limited form of the Teleport spell, so the weapon in question would be traveling through the astral plane when called.
Now here is the kicker, since both the Bag of Holding and Portable Hole, which are defined as "extradimensional spaces" unlock the Astral Plane when combined, does that mean that this extradimensional pocket is parallel with the Astral Plane? If so, then wouldn't that make the Called weapon already be in the Astral plane when it's in the bag of holding, meaning that it's basically already made half of the journey, so that when you call it it is just coming from the Astral plane that it was already in and going into your hand?
If I am way off, please explain. If I am on to something please support this and maybe FAQ for an official answer.
Good question. I'm convinced that extradimensional spaces block teleportation, but I can't actually find specific rules for it.
The issue here is that once something leave the plane you are on distance is trumped, and the weapon has a distance limit of 100 feet. That bag may be 5 feet away, but the weapon is still farther away than that.
However the text also says the weapon teleports, but I dont think the devs intended for it to cross dimensions. I think it was meant to be more like how dimension door lets you teleport, but you still end up on the same dimensional plane you started on.
I will FAQ it since I can't find any hard rules to back my case.
Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Extradimensional Spaces
A number of spells and magic items utilize extradimensional spaces, such as rope trick, bags of holding, handy haversacks, and portable holes. These spells and magic items create a tiny pocket space that does not exist in any dimension. Such items do not function, however, inside another extradimensional space. If placed inside such a space, they cease to function until removed from the extradimensional space. For example, if a bag of holding is brought into a rope trick, the contents of the bag of holding become inaccessible until the bag of holding is taken outside the rope trick. the only exception to this is when a bag of holding and a portable hole interact, forming a rift to the astral plane, as noted in their descriptions.
I think this is the part you are missing.
Something that does not exist, cannot be adjacent to something.
I believe that the word "dimension" here refers to both 3D measurements and the "alternate reality" sense, so as to not be within/adjacent to any "plane of existence" in the Pathfinder Multiverse.
What they do have is a moveable entrance point that may also qualify as a barrier to line of effect.
Personally, I would rule that you would need to reach your hand into the bag before being able to call it, because you normally can not teleport across planes without specific language to do so. The bag of holding is not normally acting as a bridge to the astral plane, and you're not using a portable hole to make a rift so that doesn't seem to help your case. Being parallel to does not mean inside of, regardless.
Requiring your hand to cross the line would still grant you some benefit because it would reduce the time to retrieve the item from a move to a swift. It would just mean you'd have to have the bag of holding on your person and have free access to it.
Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
The way we've always played extradimension spaces is that other than air, everything else has to be deliberately put into them.
You can't up-end them and have the contents fall out, you have to use the item rules to put things in and take things out. So if you want to fill them with water, use it to scoop the water.
Extradimensional air does not allow the item to function as a floatation device.
It depends on the materials used to make the bag of holding or handy haversack.
If it's made from a phase spider's web, then yes.
If it's made from a blinking dog's hide, then no.
You should not kill dogs.
What gets me is that they state the fact that a Bag of Holding and a Portable Hole cause a reaction that links together the material plane and the astral plane. Why the astral plane though? Is it because that nondimensional pocket is either adjacent, parallel, or related to the astral plane? So that when it tears it creates the hole to the astral plane? Would traveling through it be comparable to traveling through the astral plane?
So far I think the strongest point that's been made is the fact that crossing dimensions trumps distance, but still that is only an interpreted rule in regards to this situation, we still don't know if that's what was intended by the devs.
Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
The classic Portable Holes and Bags of Holding date back to the earliest days of D&D.
If I remember correctly, one of the two accessed an Extra-Dimensional space and the other an Extra-Planar space.
They were designed from the begining to be incompatible with each other, they also blew up differently depending on which was placed in the other. One method blew everything to the Astral and the other blew everything to the Ethereal, and both trips were not pleasant.
AFAIK, the original intent was to create a small pocket dimension unique to itself, simply for storage, and only accessable from it's own opening.
Also, putting any kind of sharp object in either was just asking for a bad thing to happen at the worst possible moment.
The Devs just sort of simplified a very old situation.
The original texts intent was to make a joke.
There is no Secret Cow Level!
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