Are there significant differences? I have the 2e core books and only the Game Master's guide for 3e (it was gifted to me) and finding a Hero's Handbook is next to impossible (at least on a site that takes Paypal). I know portions of 3e are available as Open Gaming on d20pfsrd, but as I have the necessary 2e stuff I was thinking of using it unless there are significant issues with it.
Any advice?
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I personally prefer 2nd Edition, particularly in conjunction with the Lite version from the Mutants and Masterminds Annual. It's a game I know much better, and I just prefer that it's closer to the d20 games I'm used to.
3rd Edition is pretty great, but there's a bit of a d20 uncanny valley to cross (there's 8 ability scores instead of 6 for example). It's still a great game though, and I've played it a few times.
The other thing 2E has over 3E is that you can by CROOKS! 2nd Edition, which is just the best superhero villain codex/bestiary ever in PDF form.
It honestly comes down to how much effort your players are willing to go to, in order to grok the system :)
Thanks for the input. It seems the hardest thing will be finding a copy of the 3e book if that's where we end up going. It's evidently out of print or something, according to various game stores I've spoken with. So I guess we'll go with 2e for the time being.
Thanks again!
have you tried looking for DC Adventures. It's the same as 3e only specifically written around the DC Comics universe
and there is always DrivethruRPG if you are ok with just PDFs
I'm looking for a hardcopy of DC Adventures, too. I don't like to use PDFs because I don't have a laptop or tablet device to take them to the table and can't afford to have them printed off at the local print shop. Plus I just prefer to have a hard copy of a book.
Thanks, though!
I got the hardcover version of the 3e hero's handbook off Amazon not too long ago for less than $45 USD
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I prefer M&M 2nd edition.
3rd edition made it slightly harder / more expensive to create skill-based characters, such as Batman, which seems, IMO, counter-intuitive (since those characters rarely operate at the same power level as powers based characters). It also increased the number of attributes, which I'm not sure was needed. (Indeed, if I was going to design away from the six attributes of d20, I'd be more inclined to have *less* attributes, like GURPS' four attributes, than add more, such as with Storyteller's nine attributes.)
I knee-jerk reacted against 2nd edition, when the game moved on from 1st edition, not really seeing it as necessary, at the time, but within a few months I had come around and found it a great improvement.
It's been a lot longer, and I still haven't 'come around' to preferring 3rd edition. I think it was, and this is a credit to its designer, pretty much already as good as it gets, for what it was built to do, by 2nd edition. (And given the various games like Hero or GURPS who are on 4th or 5th editions, that's pretty amazing!)
I got the hardcover version of the 3e hero's handbook off Amazon not too long ago for less than $45 USD
I won an ebay auction yesterday and got a softcover brand new for 11.75 usd. Was pretty jazzed about it.
I prefer M&M 2nd edition.
3rd edition made it slightly harder / more expensive to create skill-based characters, such as Batman, which seems, IMO, counter-intuitive (since those characters rarely operate at the same power level as powers based characters). It also increased the number of attributes, which I'm not sure was needed. (Indeed, if I was going to design away from the six attributes of d20, I'd be more inclined to have *less* attributes, like GURPS' four attributes, than add more, such as with Storyteller's nine attributes.)
I knee-jerk reacted against 2nd edition, when the game moved on from 1st edition, not really seeing it as necessary, at the time, but within a few months I had come around and found it a great improvement.
It's been a lot longer, and I still haven't 'come around' to preferring 3rd edition. I think it was, and this is a credit to its designer, pretty much already as good as it gets, for what it was built to do, by 2nd edition. (And given the various games like Hero or GURPS who are on 4th or 5th editions, that's pretty amazing!)
Thank you for the input, Set. I'll have both versions now for my son and his friends to choose from. Whichever I don't use I can resell, I think.
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If you start with 3rd edition, you'll probably like it just fine, and not see a reason to 'go backwards' to 2nd edition. (Although it seems like 2nd edition has the most dead tree books, both from Green Ronin and from 3rd parties, including some classic stuff like the Blackwyrm Games Algernon Files setting/character books.)
3rd edition seems to have a lot more PDF support, on the other hand.
Stuff that, to me, might be a plus, could just as easily be a minus to someone who lives in what, to me, in an incomprehensible future dystopia, and keeps their RPG stuff on a Kindle. :)
I...do that...
Mostly because I dont have the room or money for dead tree. :p
keeps their RPG stuff on a Kindle. :)
I use a Kindle only to show pictures of things I have a hard time describing, which isn't much.
I pushed my budget to its limit today by finding the M&M DC Adventures book at a pretty good price on eBay. My gaming purchasing is done once Occult Adventures comes out. Ultimate Intrigue and the Occult Bestiary will just have to go on the Christmas list.
I prefer 2e.
My #1 reason is familiarity. 2e is very similar to other d20-based games, so it's easier for my players to adapt. "If you've played Pathfinder or D&D 3.5," I tell them, "then this is almost the same." Instead of explaining to them how the mechanic works, I can just highlight the major differences (e.g. Toughness Saves, no AOOs) and move on.
In contrast, 3e is very different from other d20-based games, so it takes players longer to get the hang of it.
As an aside, they made a lot of pointless changes (IMO) in 3e. I suspect most of this was just to distance the system from D&D, Pathfinder, etc. For example, "feats" became "advantages," but they work almost exactly the same. So why change the name? Another example is ability scores, which went from 6 to 8, and changed from a more familiar 3-18+ scale to a -5 to +5 scale. If you're new to roleplaying, it's po-TAY-to vs. po-TAH-to, but if you're coming from any other mainstream d20 game, it takes some getting used to (needlessly).
I do like how M&M 3e handles powers better than 2e, especially when it comes to designing Devices and Equipment. But 2e isn't bad enough to make me want to upgrade to 3e.
2e also has a better selection of sourcebooks. In 3e it feels like they went to a lot more online content (Threat Reports), which, to be frank, feels like they're nickel & diming me. I'd rather pick up one sourcebook with a wide range of new rules, characters, and info, than a bunch of piecemeal PDFs. Also, I like having books on the table, rather than have to look things up on my laptop. You can find almost all of the 2e sourcebooks on Amazon or eBay for reasonable prices.
While on the subject of sourcebooks, I really like Freedom City, and they don't have a version for 3e. I've not looked at Emerald City (the 3e city sourcebook) yet, but I've heard from the reviews that it's junk. Besides, the only copy I could find on Amazon was $60, which is way too much.
I do wish 2e had an online reference document, like 3e does. But again, it's not enough to make me want to upgrade to 3e.
I kind of hope they come out with a 4e that goes back to the d20 roots, but combines it with the better power rules from 3e. That would be enough to get me to upgrade.
Hope this helps.
I'm going with 3e because I got a bunch of the books for free from someone. I had the Heroes Handbook and Game Master's Guide from 2e, but no one wanted to play it at the time. And one of the books I got for free was the Threat Report, which is pretty fun to go through.
We're going to give it a shot. It's different enough from standard d20 to get the interest of my potential players (my son and his friends) who wanted to play something that deviated a bit from standard d20 rules. We thought about the old DC Heroes game, but the guy who has all our old books has them in storage and didn't want to drag them out.