Pathfinder doesn't really have 'fumble' for simple actions (e.g. walk and hold keys). Sure, it can happen... but the odds are so low (way below the 5% limit set by using d20 for most actions) that the game just ignores it. The 'Take 10' limitation was presumably intended to simulate the fact that it becomes more difficult to complete routine tasks when you are in danger/under stress.
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Dropping the keys in the circumstances described sounds like a case of GM fiat to make the plot device work.
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CBDunkerson wrote: Pathfinder doesn't really have 'fumble' for simple actions (e.g. walk and hold keys). Sure, it can happen... but the odds are so low (way below the 5% limit set by using d20 for most actions) that the game just ignores it. The 'Take 10' limitation was presumably intended to simulate the fact that it becomes more difficult to complete routine tasks when you are in danger/under stress. This ruling also allows the judge to assume the player is T10 in moments when it works better "for drama".
So, if the PC falls in a 10' pit and needs an '11' to climb out... He fails.
Judge: "you're stuck in the pit and can't climb out..."
Player A: "Hay guys, throw me a rope or something..."
Player B (a Druid): "I cast SNA-1 to drop a viper in the pit"
Player A: "Hay! Not funny! My guys afraid of snakes! I'm climbing again!"
Judge: "... Wow! That's stressful. Guess you need to roll it."
Player A: "rolled a '17'- plus my '8' gives a '25'..."
Judge: "catching sight of the snake, you seem to leap right out easily!"
Yeah - feel the Drama!
nosig wrote: This ruling also allows the judge to assume the player is T10 in moments when it works better "for drama". I don't remember reading that, please can you provide a citation?
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HERE
It is probably one of the worst PDT calls I have seen and it directly contradicts what the CRB says on page 86:
Quote: Taking 10: When your character is not in immediate danger or distracted, you may choose to take 10. Instead of rolling 1d20 for the skill check, calculate your result as if you had rolled a 10. For many routine tasks, taking 10 makes them automatically successful.
Distractions or threats (such as combat) make it impossible for a character to take 10. In most cases, taking 10 is purely a safety measure—you know (or expect) that an average roll will succeed but fear that a poor roll might fail, so you elect to settle for the average roll
(a 10). Taking 10 is especially useful in situations where a
particularly high roll wouldn’t help.
Nosig wrote: his ruling also allows the judge to assume the player is T10 in moments when it works better "for drama". It most certainly does not. Yes I am reading it.
Take 10 is an option you MAY use and nothing in the not-an-faq changes that. What the FAQ says is that immediate danger and distracted are DM calls.
BigNorseWolf wrote: Take 10 is an option you MAY use and nothing in the not-an-faq changes that. What the FAQ says is that immediate danger and distracted are DM calls. Yeah, that's what I thought; that's just the same FAQ I've read before. There's nothing there that says a player can be forced by the GM to take 10 against their will.
Talonhawke wrote: Posting the relevant text below and then asking a question in the hopes of reduced table variation.
PDT wrote: No FAQ Required:
The point of the Take 10 option is to allow the GM to control the pacing and tension of the game, avoiding having the game bog down with unnecessary and pointless checks, but still calling for checks when the chance of failure leads to tension or drama, as well as when a series of checks would have a nonsensical result if all outcomes were exactly the Take 10 result. To that end, it would be counterproductive to attempt to make a strict ruling on what counts as “immediate danger and distracted” because that’s going to vary based on the pacing and dramatic needs of the moment. The very soul of the Take 10 rule is in the GM’s discretion of when it applies, and tying the GM’s hands, forcing them to allow Take 10 in some cases and disallow it in others would run counter to the point of the rule’s inclusion in the game. The rule is currently flexible enough to allow this, and it should maintain that flexibility.
With this sorta of clarification could we possibly see a PFS specific ruling regarding whether or not the task being preformed is counted as distracting enough to prevent the character from taking 10 on a check.
Yes, its in the DMS discretion for when you CAN take 10.
I know you don't like the clarification but it is what it is.
BigNorseWolf wrote: Yes, its in the DMS discretion for when you CAN take 10.
I know you don't like the clarification but it is what it is.
It's in the judges discretion for when to even call for a check. You don't need to roll. The judge knows what's best for dramatic play.
nosig wrote: BigNorseWolf wrote: Yes, its in the DMS discretion for when you CAN take 10.
I know you don't like the clarification but it is what it is.
It's in the judges discretion for when to even call for a check. You don't need to roll. The judge knows what's best for dramatic play. Stop that.
BigNorseWolf wrote: nosig wrote: BigNorseWolf wrote: Yes, its in the DMS discretion for when you CAN take 10.
I know you don't like the clarification but it is what it is.
It's in the judges discretion for when to even call for a check. You don't need to roll. The judge knows what's best for dramatic play. Stop that. Yes sir.
Sorry, I'll go away now.
Don't call me sir i worked for a living.
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dern immigant wolves taking our jerbs
BigNorseWolf wrote: Don't call me sir i worked for a living. Wouldn't that be what qualifies you to be called sir?
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