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According to CNN...Sixty-five million years ago, the dinosaurs disappeared in what's known as the Earth's fifth mass extinction. Today, a sixth mass extinction could be well underway and humans are the likely culprit, according to new research published in Science Advances.
The past five mass extinctions on Earth were caused by large-scale natural disasters like meteors or enormous chains of volcanic eruptions, wiping out between half and 96% of all living species.
But the modern mass extinction isn't being caused by a freak act of nature, the researchers say. It's being caused by man-made changes to the environment including deforestation, poaching, overfishing and global-warming, and it's proving to be just as deadly.
Recently, species like the Emperor Rat, the Desert Rat Kangaroo, the Yangtze River Dolphin, the Skunk Frog and the Chinese Paddlefish, amongst hundreds of others, are believed to have become extinct.
So, are we destroying ourselves or is this all a big, liberal lie from 97% of the Earth's scientists?
Well duh... People move in build houses or strip mine a place. Pump all thier effluent and rubbish out to sea.
I only see environments and habitats being destroyed, I don't see any new ones being created.
We are f&+@ed. Unless our children are smarter than we are. Capitalism, consumerism is killing this planet.
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So is overpopulation.
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In order for capitalism to work properly those taking part in it need to voluntarily adhere to traditional Judeo-Christian moral and ethical values. Sadly, our society is becoming increasingly amoral and as a result it is suffering from a wide variety of social problems. Also note that even in what I would consider to be the "ideal case", the Libertarians are correct. Utopia is not an option. Somebody, somewhere, is going to be torqued about something. It eventually comes down to a question of what percentage of the population is torqued and which things they are torqued about.
My personal bias is actually to attempt to maximize individual liberty, but you can't do that without also maximizing individual responsibility. Given that nobody wants to be held responsible for their actions, totalitarian statism here we come. Unfortunately the more totalitarian governments on this planet also tend to be the worst offenders as far as environmental issues are concerned.
I see no easy solutions. The "popular science" ideas of ditching capitalism, fossil fuels, and embracing some sort of top down "green" totalitarianism strike me as being counterproductive at best. The system we have now is much more fascist than a true market system would be in any event, and I see no easy way to reform it without rearranging the underlying power structure that made it that way.
For better or worse, mankind has chosen to saddle and ride the tornado known as "technology". While we have been reasonably successful in that regard, we have almost no control over where the tornado is going. As for getting off the tornado, we are now high enough up that as they say; "The first step is a doozy."
Thus we come to the only suggestions I can make that I think have even a remote chance of working. More research into energy sources that will be both pollution free and economically viable. My personal favorite is fusion but that is still a ways down the road. I understand that deep geothermal also has potential. The second is to pray our rumps off.
Yes.
Actually we are all a computer simulation created in the '70s. We ran out of food then. Or maybe it was '60s.
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In order for capitalism to work properly those taking part in it need to voluntarily adhere to traditional Judeo-Christian moral and ethical values. Sadly, our society is becoming increasingly amoral and as a result it is suffering from a wide variety of social problems.
Could you clarify these values for us non-Christians? And then clarify how we've gotten worse at following them? I always hear about how increasingly immoral we're getting, but speaking as a member of the "worst generation yet", I'm seeing increased tolerance for minority groups, increased call for moderating one's speech to avoid hurting others, and (especially slowly) increased awareness that "Global North"/first world countries aren't the only ones that matter, or even the ones that exactly know what they're doing. All that seems pretty awesome to me. I mean, consider how LGBT people were looked at just one or two generations ago. Man, it's almost as if we're in fact getting increasingly moral.
And that's just within America, i.e. one of the nations most widely regarded as being kind of abrasive and immoral. ;P
Problem ain't the dang kids per se. There's just so damn many of us.
I know I'm probably jumping down a rabbit hole here, but hey, we're basically talking about the dawn of a new age anyways, might as well open up the Can of Worms AP.
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In order for capitalism to work properly those taking part in it need to voluntarily adhere to traditional Judeo-Christian moral and ethical values. Sadly, our society is becoming increasingly amoral and as a result it is suffering from a wide variety of social problems.Could you clarify these values for us non-Christians? And then clarify how we've gotten worse at following them? I always hear about how increasingly immoral we're getting, but speaking as a member of the "worst generation yet", I'm seeing increased tolerance for minority groups, increased call for moderating one's speech to avoid hurting others, and (especially slowly) increased awareness that "Global North"/first world countries aren't the only ones that matter, or even the ones that exactly know what they're doing. All that seems pretty awesome to me. I mean, consider how LGBT people were looked at just one or two generations ago. Man, it's almost as if we're in fact getting increasingly moral.
Problem is there's just so damn many of us.
I know I'm probably jumping down a rabbit hole here, but hey, we're basically talking about the dawn of a new age anyways, might as well open up the Can of Worms AP.
I think we've found the "moral issues" that are ruining society, KC. ^_^
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Well let's just bust this motherf@$*er open then shall wAUGH KYUSS WORMS F!~& WHO PUT KYUSS WORMS IN THE CAAAN
Anyways, in response to the OP: Yes. Is people could maybe yes be extinction go underway.
Could I identify the values I'm talking about?
I will limit myself to one brief example which I am carefully selecting in the hope it will avoid a firestorm.
The requirement for employers to pay their employees a decent/living wage is a moral requirement which goes all the way back to the Old Testament. For the sake of brevity I will omit the proof of that [which is rather elegantly summed up by the Apostle Paul in the New Testament. :-) ]
However, today the view has taken hold that the only determinant of what wages should be is the market, with employers arguing that they are being pressed to drive wages as low as they possibly can. But this is only due to the modern corporate management style which emphasizes maximizing short term profits at the expense of all other considerations. The fact that the corporation may be cutting it's own throat in the long run is glossed over because the highest level management is largely paid by short term stock options and responsible only to a board of directors they are at least partially in collusion with.
However, if management were willing to take a more "moral"/long term view then they could accept a slightly lower profit margin, pay their workers more, reinvest more in their company's infrastructure, and have a much more viable long term operation. This would also avoid some obnoxnious social expenses being foisted off on the nation as a whole. But absent the self discipline required to make a more moral choice, then others will try to impose that from the outside. Which unfortunately more often than not ends up making a bad situation worse in the long run.
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Could I identify the values I'm talking about?
I will limit myself to one brief example which I am carefully selecting in the hope it will avoid a firestorm.
The requirement for employers to pay their employees a decent/living wage is a moral requirement which goes all the way back to the Old Testament. For the sake of brevity I will omit the proof of that [which is rather elegantly summed up by the Apostle Paul in the New Testament. :-) ]
However, today the view has taken hold that the only determinant of what wages should be is the market, with employers arguing that they are being pressed to drive wages as low as they possibly can. But this is only due to the modern corporate management style which emphasizes maximizing short term profits at the expense of all other considerations. The fact that the corporation may be cutting it's own throat in the long run is glossed over because the highest level management is largely paid by short term stock options and responsible only to a board of directors they are at least partially in collusion with.
However, if management were willing to take a more "moral"/long term view then they could accept a slightly lower profit margin, pay their workers more, reinvest more in their company's infrastructure, and have a much more viable long term operation. This would also avoid some obnoxnious social expenses being foisted off on the nation as a whole. But absent the self discipline required to make a more moral choice, then others will try to impose that from the outside. Which unfortunately more often than not ends up making a bad situation worse in the long run.
I can totally respect that.
Being from a conservative part of America, in my experience, "traditional Judeo-Christian moral and ethical values" tends to refer to very specific parts of the Bible. That isn't one of them. ^_^
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No offense, but I think you should excuse John and Kal their assumptions—"raise the minimum wage" isn't the first thing anyone thinks of when they hear "Judeo-Christian moral values". ;D
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EDIT: Opted for deletion. "It's the coward's way out, I know, but this coward's gonna survive!"
That quote will be regarded as hilarious and hip after Inside Out has been in theaters for a few more months. Just you wait and see.
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Look, Cthulhu! The sky's awake!
If that is a link to Lil' Cthulhu, it will go very hard with you.
Whew. Dodged a bullet.
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D....V....D ?
That's like a low res Blu-Ray, right? Or a more inconvenient way to stream a movie?
I still have a VCR. ^_^
I don't own a Blu-Ray player of any sort, and my computer isn't teribly excited about streaming an episode of a show, let alone a film.
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I really don't get the fuss about blu-rays. They're expensive, inconvenient, and rarely really add that much to the experience. Just watch it online if resolution is that important to you—it's easier and generally cheaper.
I own a VCR too. Beats the hell out of throwing out a hundred perfectly good movies.
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I can totally respect that.
Being from a conservative part of America, in my experience, "traditional Judeo-Christian moral and ethical values" tends to refer to very specific parts of the Bible. That isn't one of them. ^_^
As I said, I was trying to avoid a firestorm. :-)
Sexual morality *is* important, but ...
(1) It is almost impossible to bring the subject up, let alone debate it, without touching off a firestorm that generates more heat than light.
(2) It is still only one aspect of Judeo-Christian morality and ethics, which I have just demonstrated has broader applications than most people have been looking at. How we treat people in general is just as important if not more so than the specifics of who gets to sleep with who.
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I can totally respect that.
Being from a conservative part of America, in my experience, "traditional Judeo-Christian moral and ethical values" tends to refer to very specific parts of the Bible. That isn't one of them. ^_^
As I said, I was trying to avoid a firestorm. :-)
Sexual morality *is* important, but ...
(1) It is almost impossible to bring the subject up, let alone debate it, without touching off a firestorm that generates more heat than light.
(2) It is still only one aspect of Judeo-Christian morality and ethics, which I have just demonstrated has broader applications than most people have been looking at. How we treat people in general is just as important if not more so than the specifics of who gets to sleep with who.
The bolded portion puts you head-and-shoulders above most of the Christians I've encountered - they seem to have forgotten that.
Thank you. ^_^
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I still have a VCR. ^_^D....V....D ?
That's like a low res Blu-Ray, right? Or a more inconvenient way to stream a movie?
Me too! It's how I watch all my favorite porn!
Man, sexual morality is awesome!
Although betamax WAS the superior format...
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Could I identify the values I'm talking about?
I will limit myself to one brief example which I am carefully selecting in the hope it will avoid a firestorm.
The requirement for employers to pay their employees a decent/living wage is a moral requirement which goes all the way back to the Old Testament. For the sake of brevity I will omit the proof of that [which is rather elegantly summed up by the Apostle Paul in the New Testament. :-) ]
However, today the view has taken hold that the only determinant of what wages should be is the market, with employers arguing that they are being pressed to drive wages as low as they possibly can. But this is only due to the modern corporate management style which emphasizes maximizing short term profits at the expense of all other considerations. The fact that the corporation may be cutting it's own throat in the long run is glossed over because the highest level management is largely paid by short term stock options and responsible only to a board of directors they are at least partially in collusion with.
However, if management were willing to take a more "moral"/long term view then they could accept a slightly lower profit margin, pay their workers more, reinvest more in their company's infrastructure, and have a much more viable long term operation. This would also avoid some obnoxnious social expenses being foisted off on the nation as a whole. But absent the self discipline required to make a more moral choice, then others will try to impose that from the outside. Which unfortunately more often than not ends up making a bad situation worse in the long run.
I would avoid taking direction from any work that has system of economics in place that relies heavily upon slavery "servants".
In fairness, as has been discussed elsewhere—America has a taboo against slavery that a lot of the world doesn't have simply because America was worse with its slavery than a lot of most of the world, at least for its time. For instance, I've heard people (Youtube comments sorts of people) try to defend the Confederates with arguments like, "Well, Africa was doing slavery, too." This ignores that the slavery most of Africa practiced was closer to community service than what Britain was doing at the time.
This is not meant to say that slavery is okay in any form, but there are some versions that honestly don't seem that much more severe than what we have now. We can't just say "The word you used was 'slavery', so it's all the same to me."
I would avoid taking direction from any work that has system of economics in place that relies heavily uponslavery"servants".
Ahem. Then there is no system of economics that you can support. Even in modern day America, "slavery" has not totally disappeared. A significant percentage of the people currently in prison are being put to work in a wide variety of different jobs that private companies are making money off of. Historically slavery of one form or another has been the rule more than the exception for every state level society and religious tradition that we have records of. In many parts of the world today, more often than not involving religious traditions other than Judeo-Christian, slavery is alive and well and just as obnoxious an institution as it has ever been.
So you can excoriate the Judeo-Christian tradition because it "supports"/provides rules for slavery if you want to. But then that overlooks the fact that in modern times it has been countries with Judeo-Christian traditions that on the whole have been the most successful at abolishing/limiting slavery.
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I think the USA is a noteworthy exception to that rule.
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Slaad,
If you claim to have a hot line to divine authority and morality that no one else has, as christianity does, you don't then get to say "everyone else is doing it" and get taken seriously especially if you then use said divine hotline to argue that everyone else is doing it wrong in other areas, ones that you personally are not doing but a lot of your fellow Christians most certainly are.
And they have, and have been fought tooth and nail by Christians every step of the way. Apparently, Christians existed who both suported and opposed skavery so it's a bit much to claim it's all Christianity's doing. And that's not accouting for the Bible's actual support. If your of the "inerrant word of god" schol of thought on the Bible, it's comdoning of slavery is a bit of a problem with claiming its a good moral source.
KC,
Given you were allowed to beat your slaves with a rod no bigger than your thumb, I'm not sure that really follows as being "not all that different from community service". And as long as the slave died from injuries three days after the beating rather than earlier, it was all good. Yeah, not seeing the supposedly moral version of slavery in the Bible. It's not that all slavery is the same, but that .biblical slavery isn't as good as people, who would refuse to actually work under those conditions themselves, were portraying it and is still pretty horrible.
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But then that overlooks the fact that in modern times it has been countries with Judeo-Christian traditions that on the whole have been the most successful at abolishing/limiting slavery.
Isn't that kind of because countries with Judeo-Christian traditions were the ones with most slavery to get rid of? Kinda hard to be succesfull at getting rid of something you don't have
Seriously though, I'm aware that Christians weren't only ones in past few centuries with slaves, but I'd like to point out that pretty much all religions teach same values anyway, even if focus is different, just in case someone wants to praise Christian morals over other religions and common sense xP
Given you were allowed to beat your slaves with a rod no bigger than your thumb, I'm not sure that really follows as being "not all that different from community service". And as long as the slave died from injuries three days after the beating rather than earlier, it was all good.
Would you mind rereading my sentence?
This ignores that the slavery most of Africa practiced was closer to community service than what Britain was doing at the time.
Now, I know a lot of Africa was getting a lot of Christian influence around that time, but I don't think that's what Ceaser's talking about. I honestly don't know a ton about African history, of course.
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Given you were allowed to beat your slaves with a rod no bigger than your thumb, I'm not sure that really follows as being "not all that different from community service". And as long as the slave died from injuries three days after the beating rather than earlier, it was all good.Would you mind rereading my sentence?
This ignores that the slavery most of Africa practiced was closer to community service than what Britain was doing at the time.Now, I know a lot of Africa was getting a lot of Christian influence around that time, but I don't think that's what Ceaser's talking about. I honestly don't know a ton about African history, of course.
Yes. Absolutely, I would mind rereading your sentence. It makes me look stupid and wrong.
Aplogies for misreading and misconstruing your point.
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I have a feeling that this is a very interesting direction for the thread to take:
Off a cliff!
Yes. Absolutely, I would mind rereading your sentence.Given you were allowed to beat your slaves with a rod no bigger than your thumb, I'm not sure that really follows as being "not all that different from community service". And as long as the slave died from injuries three days after the beating rather than earlier, it was all good.Would you mind rereading my sentence?
This ignores that the slavery most of Africa practiced was closer to community service than what Britain was doing at the time.Now, I know a lot of Africa was getting a lot of Christian influence around that time, but I don't think that's what Ceaser's talking about. I honestly don't know a ton about African history, of course.
Oh, well, don't, then! I'm sorry!
It's cool, this is a big argument and mistakes are inevitable. Like possibly the argument itself. :P
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May i ask you a question? why do you think slavery is wrong?
May I ask you one? Would you be willing to live as a slave? If not, you've answered your own question. If so, how much do you cost?
People are not things. You cannot own them like you would a pet. The whole concept, never mind the practice, of slavery is abhorent to people who believe in inherent human dignity. This ignores the historic practice that slavery leads to abuse of said slaves fairly easily with a lack of redress. After all, slaves aren't full people. Is that clear enough?