I'm running a level 14 game at the moment and had a question about the oracle's firestorm.
Firestorm (Su): As a standard action, you can cause fire to erupt around you. You can create one 10-foot cube of fire per oracle level. These cubes can be arranged in any pattern you desire, but each cube must be adjacent to another and one must be adjacent to you. Any creature caught in these flames takes 1d6 points of fire damage per oracle level, with a Reflex save resulting in half damage. This fire lasts for a number of rounds equal to your Charisma modifier. You can use this ability once per day. You must be at least 11th level to select this revelation.
My understanding of this is that my player would place his fourteen 10ft cubes of fire that would stay there for as many rounds as the wisdom modifier. Any creature under the cubes of fire would take 14d6 damage and any creature that walked through them in subsequent rounds would also take that damage.
However, my player believes that he can move those 14 cubes of fire and place them differently each round. I would just like some clarification please on how this spell is suppose to work. Thanks in advance.
It says the cubes can be arranged in any pattern the player desires, but it says nothing about moving them. I'm with you, Eeza.
If it were one of my players I would simply submit to them that the ability says nothing about moving or altering the cubes after creation, so they are unable to do so. Good luck!
That is how we played it on the weekend but I just wanted to double check before our next game day. Thanks again :D
I am the player in this game running the oracle. The wording on this SU leaves a lot to the imagination... In the spell version it list the ongoing damage as 4d6 or somesuch but in the Oracle SU version it does not list any ongoing damage. I am pretty sure there would be some type of ongoing damage but I/we are not sure if we should follow the spell or if it would be the 14d6 ongoing. Also... Can this SU be released/cancelled at will? I would think so, but the question of this came up during the session and I would like to know for sure.
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No, unless ongoing damage is listed, there is none. However, it follows the general rules for fire damage, namely that some especially flamable (paper, loose cloth) items may catch fire. In that case they would take the default damage for being on fire (1d6)
The spell of the same name is not really reliable as a comparison. That is an instantaneous spell with no duration, the oracle power is rounds / charisma mod
The spell and oracle revelation are two different things despite their supposed similarities.
The spell is instantaneous as FLite pointed out. The oracle ability has a duration. If you fail your save versus the spell you catch fire and take 4d6 damage per round until they are extinguished. The revelation says nothing about catching fire so you don't. The revelation also doesn't say it is dismissable so technically you can't dismiss it as a standard action like you can spells that have the (D). You might check with your DM about that, though, as it seems like you should be able to. Good luck!
Ok.. so your telling me that if I hit a mook with this thing and they are hit for 14d6, the next round (one would assume if they fail the save they are on fire at least. Not to mention that they would still be standing in the same spot.) they do not take any more damage? That just does not make sense. Also, can you point me to the rule stating that you can not dismiss and ongoing SU ability at will?
I really wished they had spent 10min on this description and fleshed it out a bit more.
I would personally treat the oracle revelation similar to a wall of fire in that anyone standing in the area of effect on my (the caster's) turn would take damage (reflex for half each round). The revelation doesn't specifically say that, though, so if someone wanted to really mess with it they could say you only take damage once.
Ok.. so your telling me that if I hit a mook with this thing and they are hit for 14d6, the next round (one would assume if they fail the save they are on fire at least. Not to mention that they would still be standing in the same spot.) they do not take any more damage? That just does not make sense. Also, can you point me to the rule stating that you can not dismiss and ongoing SU ability at will?
I really wished they had spent 10min on this description and fleshed it out a bit more.
FYI, I can't find anything under the Supernatural Abilities description in the Magic section or in the Revelations section under Oracles that says those affects can be dismissed like you can spell. For all intents and purposes, it looks like once you turn on this revelation, it's around for its duration.
Ok.. so your telling me that if I hit a mook with this thing and they are hit for 14d6, the next round (one would assume if they fail the save they are on fire at least. Not to mention that they would still be standing in the same spot.) they do not take any more damage? That just does not make sense. Also, can you point me to the rule stating that you can not dismiss and ongoing SU ability at will?
I really wished they had spent 10min on this description and fleshed it out a bit more.
Firestorm (Su): As a standard action, you can cause fire to erupt around you. You can create one 10-foot cube of fire per oracle level. These cubes can be arranged in any pattern you desire, but each cube must be adjacent to another and one must be adjacent to you. Any creature caught in these flames takes 1d6 points of fire damage per oracle level, with a Reflex save resulting in half damage. This fire lasts for a number of rounds equal to your Charisma modifier. You can use this ability once per day. You must be at least 11th level to select this revelation.
If someone is dumb enough to stick around in the flames in subsequent rounds, they take 1d6 per oracle level in fire damage as the ability says. Though in subsequent rounds I'm not sure if it's supposed to be on their turn or the oracles; I suspect the opponents such as the case of wall of fire with people trying to walk through it. The ability doesn't say anything about catching fire like "Fire Storm" the spell does. The oracle ability and the spell are completely different things; if the oracle was meant to use anything similar or in relation to Fire Storm the spell, they'd have written that in to reference it.
Ongoing abilities specifically need to be stated that it can be dismissed in order for one to dismiss it at will. For example, ongoing spell effects that have (D) in the duration can be dismissed. Spells that don't, or other extraordinary, spell-like, or supernatural ability that doesn't mention you can dismiss an ongoing ability, then you can't. Alchemist's mutagen? No. Glitterdust? No. Wall of Fire? No.
Bah! Overly complex. So.. no ongoing unless they are dumb enough to stick around.. Then full 14d6. Not dissmissable.
I still think they should catch fire if they fail the save and move. I just dont see how you can take 14d6 fire damage with a failed save and not catch fire. Even if its just standard 1d6 fire instead of the spells 4d6.. It just makes sense that a failed save would cause you to flee the area burning like a torch.
Bah! Overly complex. So.. no ongoing unless they are dumb enough to stick around.. Then full 14d6. Not dissmissable.
I still think they should catch fire if they fail the save and move. I just dont see how you can take 14d6 fire damage with a failed save and not catch fire. Even if its just standard 1d6 fire instead of the spells 4d6.. It just makes sense that a failed save would cause you to flee the area burning like a torch.
Tell that to Fireball.
Unless a spell, SLA, or supernatural ability specifically states they catch fire, then they do not. It's just that simple when it comes to that sort of thing. Now, if your GM wants to change the rules, then that's fine; however, this ability is actually extremely powerful. It's even more so if you cast this down a hallway or in a limited movement area.
You figure any oracle worth their salt at 14th level is going to have at least a Charisma of 22 (if not much higher). That's 6 rounds of this ability burning for 1d6 per oracle level in damage. If you can keep your enemy within that area, that's 14d6 points of damage each round for several rounds if you can keep them within the area of effect.
Also, unless a spell/effect states it can be moved... then it's a static effect, which means it cannot be moved. That's just how the rules work in Pathfinder unless you implement house rules.
Bah! Overly complex. So.. no ongoing unless they are dumb enough to stick around.. Then full 14d6. Not dissmissable.
I still think they should catch fire if they fail the save and move. I just dont see how you can take 14d6 fire damage with a failed save and not catch fire. Even if its just standard 1d6 fire instead of the spells 4d6.. It just makes sense that a failed save would cause you to flee the area burning like a torch.
Making rules up for abilities seem more complex if one expects any sort of consistency.
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Bah! Overly complex. So.. no ongoing unless they are dumb enough to stick around.. Then full 14d6. Not dissmissable.
I still think they should catch fire if they fail the save and move. I just dont see how you can take 14d6 fire damage with a failed save and not catch fire. Even if its just standard 1d6 fire instead of the spells 4d6.. It just makes sense that a failed save would cause you to flee the area burning like a torch.
Yes. And I agree with your logic.
That is why the next time you are hit by a fireball, your GM should apply the damage to every piece of equipment you are carrying. :) After all, it doesn't make sense that the fire from the fireball would only damage you and leave your gear unharmed.
It is a cinematic system, designed to emulate pulp fantasy and then vastly simplified. Don't ask it to do common sense, it doesn't handle that well.
Lol... Thanks for your help guys. Great answers as always. At least I know that I do get the 14d6 on the 2nd round if they dont move. That was debated also.
I don't remember that being debated. I assumed that if they are standing in it or they pass through it then they take the full damage everytime. But everything here makes sense and I think it is how we played it, except I think I let you dismiss it early. Thanks again everyone.