[PFS] Familiar delivering touch spell


Rules Questions


CRB wrote:
Touch Spells in Combat: Many spells have a range of touch. To use these spells, you cast the spell and then touch the subject. In the same round that you cast the spell, you may also touch (or attempt to touch) as a free action. You may take your move before casting the spell, after touching the target, or between casting the spell and touching the target. You can automatically touch one friend or use the spell on yourself,...

Today's case study is a cleric with a familiar (through Eldritch Heritage or eq.). The clerics ally gets killed across the room. so the cleric moves 20' towards the ally, casts Breath of Life, and designates his weasel familiar as the "toucher".

CRB wrote:
Deliver Touch Spells (Su): If the master is 3rd level or higher, a familiar can deliver touch spells for him. If the master and the familiar are in contact at the time the master casts a touch spell, he can designate his familiar as the “toucher.” The familiar can then deliver the touch spell just as the master would. As usual, if the master casts another spell before the touch is delivered, the touch spell dissipates.

The weasel now Runs across the room and delivers the spell as a free action 'just as the master would'. The ally lives and everyone goes home happy.

Can you find a flaw in my reasoning or something I've missed?

Silver Crusade

Assuming the weasel was hitching a ride on the cleric when the cleric took his 20' move then I don't see any problem.

Grand Lodge

Nope, sounds like you either need to contact your local VO or you've got a good tactic to use in case of emergency.

Liberty's Edge

Won't the weasel touch the ground and release the held charge as it runs?


Just like how your feet and offhand holding a staff do not discharge the spell, I am comfortable arguing that the animal's nose/mouth (it's main limb for interacting with the world) is the touching limb.


There's no real rules for being carried, but this runs into a bit of a gray area with effectively dismounting and moving. You can't move faster by being on a moving horse, free action hopping off, and then double moving on your own. If the weasel double moves he's done that. If the weasel single moves he hasn't.

That is FAR more than i would ever realistically think about it at the table when the other answer is "character stops dying though".

The Exchange

Recall, however, that dismounting is a move action unless you make a DC20 Ride check, so your weasel couldn't use two move actions to move towards that ally.

Grand Lodge

This is essentially what my Oracle does with a Lyrakien Azata Familiar.

Be aware that your Familiar can only move and touch. It can't move/touch/move. That's what the Valet Archetype allows for.

In many cases this means your Familiar is being put directly in the threatened area of whatever just killed your party member.


Covert Operator wrote:
Recall, however, that dismounting is a move action unless you make a DC20 Ride check, so your weasel couldn't use two move actions to move towards that ally.

I don't think it would be out of place to let the familiar climb down for 5 feet of movement.

The moral of the story is, that players will try to do things that the rules don't specifically cover and thats ok, even in PFS. You make a call , you go with it, life moves on. Table variation is inevitable and thats fine. Half the reason not to use a computer game instead of a living breathing DM is so they can deal with the fun hijinks players will come up with.


Covert Operator wrote:
Recall, however, that dismounting is a move action unless you make a DC20 Ride check, so your weasel couldn't use two move actions to move towards that ally.

Ok, assuming the familiar has a climb speed and your table does not want to apply dismount checks to familiars. Or it is just going to jump down from your shoulder as part of its run action (jumping down 5' as part of it's move). Or it can fly.

But bringing up the ride rules brings up another point:

CRB, Combat, Mounted Combat wrote:
If your mount moves more than 5 feet, you can only make a single melee attack. Essentially, you have to wait until the mount gets to your enemy before attacking, so you can't make a full attack.

They address in Mounted Combat that the mount moving consumes your time, and that if you are using the ride rules you lose a move action when your mount carries you around. Giving the familiar a full round action after it rides on your shoulder is stretching RAI.

So under the most generous interpretation, the cleric can move, cast, then the familiar full round runs, and free action touches.

Under a moderate interpretation, the cleric casts where he is, then the familiar full round runs, and free action touches.

There are stricter interpretations, but I think those wander farther into making up your own rules. What do you think?

Sczarni

This exact discussion is being had in another thread.

Riding your mount doesn't make you "lose a move action". The mount is called out as specifically using its actions to move.

The only restriction the rider has is making a full attack with a melee weapon when their mount moves more than 5ft.

And even that restriction is removed if you have the Mounted Skirmisher feat.

This is a bit off topic, but I wanted to address the misinformation before it got out of hand.

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