I tried the FAQ and tried searching, and I didn't find my answers. So, please accept my apology if this has been answered, but, if it has, please direct me to that answer.
Short version: how does shadow evocation work when, for instance, a fireball is mimicked and some of the targets have resist energy (fire) or protection from energy (fire) and would it matter if such protected targets had reason to believe the caster were an illusionist?
Here's the long version:
Ilyana the illusionist casts a shadow evocation fireball at a group of folks.
Among the group of folks are...
Bob, who doesn't know Ilyana, and who has no reason to believe the fireball isn't entirely a fireball, and is unprotected,
Carol, who doesn't know Ilyana, and who has no reason to believe the fireball isn't entirely a fireball, and who has resist energy (fire),
Rod, who doesn't know Ilyana, and who has no reason to believe the fireball isn't entirely a fireball, and who has protection from energy (fire) at full strength
Cindy, who does know Ilyana, and who has been fooled before, and who has resist energy (fire),
Marta, who does know Ilyana, and who has been fooled before, and isn't resistant to fire,
Jamal, who does know Ilyana, and who has been fooled before, and who has protection from energy (fire) at full strength
Suppose Bob, Carol and Rod all fail their Reflex saves (assume no one has evasion, etc.). What happens to each target? Does Carol take 10 fewer points of fire damage than Bob? Does Carol's resist energy "know" that it's fire damage? Does it "know" that it's not? If Carol misses her save, and takes full fire damage, but knows that she has resist fire 10, does she now have a reason to disbelieve? Does Rod's protection absorb the whole thing? None of it?
What happens for Cindy, Marta and Jamal? Since Cindy is pretty sure Ilyana is using an illusion, does her resistance work regardless of how much she gets burned? What about Jamal? Does Jamal's protection absorb the entire thing? None of it?
After this blast, if there are weird, unexpected differences between them, would that satisfy getting
For reference... (I have made an important phrase bold.)
Shadow Evocation
You tap energy from the Plane of Shadow to cast a quasi-real, illusory version of a sorcerer or wizard evocation spell of 4th level or lower. Spells that deal damage have normal effects unless an affected creature succeeds on a Will save. Each disbelieving creature takes only one-fifth damage from the attack. If the disbelieved attack has a special effect other than damage, that effect is one-fifth as strong (if applicable) or only 20% likely to occur. If recognized as a shadow evocation, a damaging spell deals only one-fifth (20%) damage. Regardless of the result of the save to disbelieve, an affected creature is also allowed any save (or spell resistance) that the spell being simulated allows, but the save DC is set according to shadow evocation's level (5th) rather than the spell's normal level.
Protection from Energy
Protection from energy grants temporary immunity to the type of energy you specify when you cast it (acid, cold, electricity, fire, or sonic). When the spell absorbs 12 points per caster level of energy damage (to a maximum of 120 points at 10th level), it is discharged.
Resist Energy
This abjuration grants a creature limited protection from damage of whichever one of five energy types you select: acid, cold, electricity, fire, or sonic. The subject gains resist energy 10 against the energy type chosen, meaning that each time the creature is subjected to such damage (whether from a natural or magical source), that damage is reduced by 10 points before being applied to the creature's hit points. The value of the energy resistance granted increases to 20 points at 7th level and to a maximum of 30 points at 11th level. The spell protects the recipient's equipment as well.
You have a lengthy post, but I missed what part you're stuck on.
Shadow Fireball is cast, dealing (let's say) 40 damage (Reflex for half).
Those that disbelieve would instead take 8 (Reflex for half).
Apply Resistance and Protection from there.
This is one of the answers I came to as well, but I wasn't sure I had good arguments for alternative possibilities.
For example, if the fireball were a real one, Rod and Jamal would take no damage even if they failed their saves. But, if it were made of energy from the Shadow Plane, would that energy really be fire? If it weren't, would the protective spells "know" that?
If the fireball is made from shadow energy, is it still really fire?
My rule, at home, would be "yes." And, in that case, the protections and resistances would still work.
The energy is quasi-real. By making the save, you make the energy less real, is how to view it.
So, if you fail the save, it hits your defenses full force. Apply Prot/Res from there.
if you make the save, you weaken the spell and avoid it, so it does much less damage, apply prots from there.
==Aelryinth
The energy is quasi-real. By making the save, you make the energy less real, is how to view it.
So, if you fail the save, it hits your defenses full force. Apply Prot/Res from there.if you make the save, you weaken the spell and avoid it, so it does much less damage, apply prots from there.
==Aelryinth
Is your idea here that the belief of the person exposed to the shadow material alters the reality of that material?
I guess I'm kinda getting at the metaphysical and maybe even phenomenology of the shadow matter here. If I'm understanding you, the shadow evocation fireball is quasi-fire. And, for a human target, saving against it makes the fire part of the quasi-fire less fire-ish.
What about using a shadow evocation fireball to set extremely dry brush ablaze? Presumably, the bugs and birds in the field get saves, but the water-starved grasses and weeds do not. And, I would guess you're suggesting that regardless of what happens to the animals, the grass itself treats the fire as real. Or, at least, real enough to start a fire, and then actual Prime Plane fire takes over from there.
(And, by the way, I'm inclined to agree with this.)
But, this leaves open for me the reality of what this shadowy fire stuff is.
I could just say "It's magic, forget about it," but I kinda want to explore what this stuff is, and make sure my rulings cohere with official rulings.
I think that a shadow evocation lightning bolt cast at a dried out tree stump should probably set it on fire too, but I'm not 100% sure the rules as written require this.
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Perhaps there's only a 20% chance that the "fire" sets things ablaze, and it spreads at only 20% the rate?
I've always imagined these sorts of spells as using a giant "dipper" into the shadow plane. Fire still exists there, so some of it is real. If a person disbelieves a Shadow Fireball, then they're ignoring the 80% shadow. The 20% that's real still affects them.
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I've always imagined these sorts of spells as using a giant "dipper" into the shadow plane. Fire still exists there, so some of it is real. If a person disbelieves a Shadow Fireball, then they're ignoring the 80% shadow. The 20% that's real still affects them.
I like this. Thanks.
You're bringing part of the plane of shadow in. IN effect, imposing that reality on this one, making an illusion real.
If you withstand the spell, you realize the power isn't real, and most of it dissipates, but not all of it.
Since grass doesn't get a save, the spell is fully real and manifests at full power, there's nothing to stop it from doing so.
So, unless it is defied, it manifests at full strength.
==Aelryinth