Ageless Racial Trait from Bloodforge (RP cost)?


Advice and Rules Questions

Dark Archive

Ageless (Ex): This race does not experience any of the benefits or penalties of aging beyond adulthood and is effectively immortal, never dying of old age.

What should be the Racial Point cost for this racial trait? Admittingly, if I can figure out a way I would like to turn this into a more general trait or feat. Perhaps have it connected to having fey, celestial, or fiendish blood.


If I recall correctly, the author doesn't like the race builder subsystem (for good reasons!), so I'm not sure you'll get a solid number. It's essentially a 20th level wizard arcane discovery, so it's probably very high, if it were to have a number. I think the highest point value in the builderis about 4, so maybe quadruple that.

Dark Archive

Yet it provides no mechanical benefit, why would or more should it be so high? Essentially it has nothing but roleplay purpose giving no bonus that could help a character in overcoming challenges whether in combat or otherwise.


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Cheapy wrote:
If I recall correctly, the author doesn't like the race builder subsystem (for good reasons!), so I'm not sure you'll get a solid number. It's essentially a 20th level wizard arcane discovery, so it's probably very high, if it were to have a number. I think the highest point value in the builderis about 4, so maybe quadruple that.

Well, you're right in that I don't like the RP system, but I find your conclusion here...suspect.

Yes, certain classes gain immortality as a capstone. But it doesn't do anything. From a balance standpoint, it's a total non-entity - you might as well have not gotten the ability at all.

If I had to assign an RP value I'd probably place it at 1; assigning it for free (0) would be possible if it didn't technically shield you from certain esoteric forms of attack. A version that let you accrue the bonuses, but not the penalties, would need to be much higher.

Dark Archive

@Prince of Knives
Oh... you are the author? Thank you!

I was very much a fan of the old Bastards and Bloodlines, so seeing that this sourcebook had essentially been converted for Pathfinder was very nice to see. Sure the lore may be a bit different, as to updated racial traits, but you had still converted most all of the races.

My favorite races I would have to say is the Houri and Sthein.


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JonathonWilder wrote:

@Prince of Knives

Oh... you are the author? Thank you!

I was very much a fan of the old Bastards and Bloodlines, so seeing that this sourcebook had essentially been converted for Pathfinder was very nice to see. Sure the lore may be a bit different, as to undated racial traits, but you had still converted most all of the races.

My favorite races I would have to say is the Houri and Sthein.

Co-author ^_^ Matt Medeiros also wrote the supplement with me. In point of fact, he wrote Sthein specifically, and I'm sure he'll be through the moon that you like his work.

And yeah. Some of the races had to go because of legal reasons, others had concepts changed because of how DSP updated psionics or how Pathfinder updated certain races and monsters (like gnolls and gnomes). Not gonna lie though, some of them I changed just 'cause I hated 'em >.>


Roleplay wise, it is a highly valuable trait to some characters. It is worth epic quests, great wealth, and all sorts of other things.

Gameplay balance wise? It is immunity to the worst combat option most ghosts will have access to. Corrupting touch from ghosts and the 3rd level spell Sands of Time were the most common age effects I could find. Being immune to the ghost's least threatening ability, and a situational 3rd level spell isn't really that strong.

I would argue the elf's sleep immunity is a way better immunity to have.


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Matt Medeiros here.

Yes. Thanks for loving the Sthein and Houri! We worked hard on this book and I'm glad the effort was appreciated!

Yeah, the "ageless" trait was more of a nod that with skin like wood or the like, why would they age? That's it in a nutshell.

If ya'll like it enough, a second one MAY be in the works if you make a big enough ruckus. :P

Dark Archive

Wow, this is very nice, though I admit I probably shouldn't be suprised to see the authors would drop in to comment since they would have interest in what others have to say about what they make. Looking at Akadzjian's profile I see that there is a thread for the Bloodforge book, so I will be heading there.

Thank you for the suggested cost of Ageless in racial points, though I do wonder if it could be turned into a trait or feat.


JonathonWilder wrote:

Wow, this is very nice, though I admit I probably shouldn't be suprised to see the authors would drop in to comment since they would have interest in what others have to say about what they make. Looking at Akadzjian's profile I see that there is a thread for the Bloodforge book, so I will be heading there.

Thank you for the suggested cost of Ageless in racial points, though I do wonder if it could be turned into a trait or feat.

It could possibly be a trait, though it'd be a pretty bad one.

There was a feat, back in 3.5, called Wedded to History. Look it up; it was a really interesting, useful backstory feat back in the day and it could be a great template for something you design for your home games. It was in one of the Dragon Magazines or Dragon Compendiums, though I'm not sure which.

Dark Archive

I actually know of the Wedded to History feat and it has been my go to choice for having an immortal/ageless character starting out.

What if it was the Ageless trait plus immunity to mundane diseases? Still, having Ageless as a racial trait that can be swapped out for other traits.


I should have mentioned it, but if you really wanted to price it as Paizo's Advanced Race Guide does, Elven Immunities is 2 race points. Therefore, I think Ageless should be 1 race point, as it provides a less valuable immunity.


JonathonWilder wrote:

I actually know of the Wedded to History feat and it has been my go to choice for having an immortal/ageless character starting out.

What if it was the Ageless trait plus immunity to mundane diseases? Still, having Ageless as a racial trait that can be swapped out for other traits.

Well, the thing about traits is their power is generally derived not from the trait itself, but from the thing it provides a bonus to. Reactionary, for instance, is a very potent trait, because Initiative is in and of itself extremely valuable, and it stays valuable through a character's entire career.

Mundane diseases are a threat at lower levels. However, this threat tapers off at around level 7 or so, when saving throws outstrip the diseases' DCs completely. Immunity to mundane disease is thus irrelevant long-term, but very relevant short-term. Handing that out as a trait - that is, essentially half a feat - is probably too much of a bonus.

If you wanted to play up the idea of being distanced from the cruelties of fate, or immortal fortitude, I might suggest ageless and +3 vs. disease, or ageless and +1 to fortitude saves.

Dark Archive

@Prince of Knives
How about something like this?
--------------------------

Unfading Blood
Because of otherworldly parentage, you stop aging and do not often suffer from sickness upon reaching adulthood.
Prerequisites: Must be taken at 1st level, the Mixed Blood feat (Aberration, fey, outsider, or undead type)
Benefit: This race does not experience any of the benefits or penalties of aging beyond adulthood and is effectively immortal, never dying of old age. Also, this race gains a +3 bonus to saves vs all diseases no matter the source.


JonathonWilder wrote:

@Prince of Knives

How about something like this?
--------------------------

Unfading Blood
Because of otherworldly parentage, you stop aging and do not often suffer from sickness upon reaching adulthood.
Prerequisites: Must be taken at 1st level, the Mixed Blood feat (Aberration, fey, outsider, or undead type)
Benefit: This race does not experience any of the benefits or penalties of aging beyond adulthood and is effectively immortal, never dying of old age. Also, this race gains a +3 bonus to saves vs all diseases no matter the source.

Is this meant to be a feat or a trait? It seems like it could be either, and I want to clarify before I fix up the wording and formatting real quick.

Dark Archive

Well I wrote it out as a feat, if you have ideas for it being a trait I am willing to hear it. ^^

I just find the idea having more weight if it required all of a character's starting feats, unless human. That and it would allow for a bit more 'oomph' and usefulness with such an idea.... while allowing something of a feat chain with Mixed Blood.


JonathonWilder wrote:

Well I wrote it out as a feat, if you have ideas for it being a trait I am willing to hear it. ^^

I just find the idea having more weight if it required all of a character's starting feats, unless human. That and it would allow for a bit more 'oomph' and usefulness with such an idea.... while allowing something of a feat chain with Mixed Blood.

Yeah, but what about creatures that are already of those types? For a trait, I'd probably word it along these lines:

Ageless Blood (Racial)
Prerequisites: Aberration, fey, outsider, or undead type.
Benefit: You do not experience any of the benefits or penalties of aging beyond adulthood and are effectively immortal, never dying of old age. Additionally, your perpetual youth shields you from disease; you gain a +3 racial bonus on saving throws vs. disease.

Mixed Blood provides you with subtypes that make you act as the types listed already.

As a feat:

Ageless Blood [Heritage]
Prerequisites: Aberration, fey, outsider, or undead type.
Benefit: You do not experience any of the benefits or penalties of aging beyond adulthood and are effectively immortal, never dying of old age. Additionally, your perpetual youth bolsters your health; you enjoy a +1 racial bonus to Fortitude saves.

Feats are more expensive, and can afford to be slightly stronger.

Dark Archive

Good point, and thanks for fixing that up for me! ^^


JonathonWilder wrote:
Good point, and thanks for fixing that up for me! ^^

Not a problem my friend. I can be a bit picky about wording.

Keep an eye out; 'forge will be undergoing some final revisions to the PDF in anticipation of the print run, which will incorporate errata and clean up some wording and balance issues.


Cheapy wrote:
If I recall correctly, the author doesn't like the race builder subsystem (for good reasons!), so I'm not sure you'll get a solid number. It's essentially a 20th level wizard arcane discovery, so it's probably very high, if it were to have a number. I think the highest point value in the builderis about 4, so maybe quadruple that.

Just to point it out, but the Shabti race given in the last book of the Mummy's Mask (pg.90) has ageless immortality at the cost of +1RP.


^ what she said

The Shabti list immortality as 1 Race point.

"Immortal (1 RP): Shabti do not age naturally and cannot die of old age. While some might come into being at age categories other than adulthood, they never leave their original age category. Spells and effects that cause aging affect a shabti as normal."


Oh, nifty. Subtly different, but similar enough that I feel good about my estimate now.

Dark Archive

Thanks Doomed Hero for offering the Shabti, I forgot about that race.

Dark Archive

RCM wrote:
Just to point it out, but the Shabti race given in the last book of the Mummy's Mask (pg.90) has ageless immortality at the cost of +1RP.

Just realized... but I thank the wrong person. I apologize, more so for not realizing it until now. Heh ^^;


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

If you're using one of the several time magic systems like I do, this can be used to affect aging or time effects such as Time Stop. I have a trait for some races, a feat availbule with onerous perquisites and a class featurè or three

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