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Hello all! I have little experience with Gestalt character builds, but I'm running an AP (Runelords, Iron Gods, or Giantslayer) for two players and I was curious if having them do Gestalt will be enough to make up for being down two players. One of them is absolutely going to run a pet class (Hunter, Summoner, etc.), so I imagine that will help even the ground.
Any input from those with experience is appreciated!
Quite possibly.
The main problem with fewer players is a loss of action economy- they do not have enough actions to shift the battle before being overrun, at times.
A pet class would help though.
After that, it might not need you to gestalt- a team of a bard and inquisitor can cover most of the basic roles between them (provided they have a bit more resources for things like wands of CLW, and scrolls to help with conditions). But given the fact that you are 2 players down...yeah, maybe a slight edge really is needed...
The first few levels are really scary with only 2 players, but after that the players are limited only by their system mastery.
2 player book 1s have been some of my favorite adventures. Just encourage the players to flee and come back rested if necessary, or after a trip to the store for whatever they need to beat swarms/DR/grapples/whatever.
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I should add that these are my two all-time *best* players. I've run games for just the two of them before but it was homebrew, so there was no issue.
We all wanna do an AP, though, so here we are.
Action economy is *definitely* the biggest concern, which is why it's good that one of them always plays a pet class. They're also consistently the cleverest, most brilliant in-game problem solvers I've ever GMed for. That plus a little extra edge from Gestalt I think could make things work.
Giantslayer might be a little tough, still, since that AP is largely about pushing groups to their resource limits and often strains even a four-character party's action economy.
Any other advice, such as potential pitfalls I may be missing is appreciated. And thank you to those who have chimed in already!
I'd encourage them to have some decent form of stealth, and eventually, gloves of reconnaissance. Life is a lot safer when you know what you're fighting before you're fighting it.
Always have two escape routes other than running away. Dimension Door and Invisibility are both great.
If they take any crafting feats, downplay the AP's timeline. Extra effective wealth makes up for a lot.
I should add that these are my two all-time *best* players. I've run games for just the two of them before but it was homebrew, so there was no issue.
We all wanna do an AP, though, so here we are.
Action economy is *definitely* the biggest concern, which is why it's good that one of them always plays a pet class. They're also consistently the cleverest, most brilliant in-game problem solvers I've ever GMed for. That plus a little extra edge from Gestalt I think could make things work.
Giantslayer might be a little tough, still, since that AP is largely about pushing groups to their resource limits and often strains even a four-character party's action economy.
Any other advice, such as potential pitfalls I may be missing is appreciated. And thank you to those who have chimed in already!
Well, gestalt would definitely help the other major problem- any failed saves means half the party is taken down (maybe 1/3 or 2/3, since the pet might not be affected...but its master, the one giving commands, might be mind controlled, basically covering pet too for animal companions).
With perfect saves across the board, that is less of an issue. I might highly encourage them to get something with familiars, since they are the hardest to drag down with them (eidolons cna be banished instantly, which goes back to the mind control problem...plus they disappear when summoner is asleep)
@eakratz: We considered and vetoed that idea. Both of them (and myself) are dyed-in-the-wool roleplayers and the thought of having two "extras" around just broke up the verisimilitude for us too much. :-/
There are feats that are basically a watered down form of leadership (not going to suggest leadership itself...because...really?).
Taldan Knight lets you get a squire (with the Taldan squire) feat. The cohort is of an NPC class, but hey, another warm body, and it can fit into your character's backstory.
Of course...that feat needs +6 BAB, so it is not going to be around at the scariest levels...Could be cool though.
And if you treat that NPC like a servant with less than human rights that you would just as soon use to test for traps....well....seems in character for the social system.
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Hey there, stranger!
I run for two players at my main f2f table. We go with the aforementioned "2 players, 2 PCs each, but you only RP as one of them"
BUT they're also not high system mastery gamers, so they really need the warm bodies to help mitigate action economy.
If you're running APs out of the box, and your players have a good degree of system mastery combined with clever problem solving, gestalt will be fine for the majority of the AP. The real problem will be those early levels (1-4) where players are squishy, have few options (even with gestalt) and a single crit can equal death. So basically, the enemy is randomness.
So, have you considered hero points to help balance out the randomness? They've gone a LONG way at my own table at saving players from "save or die" or "wham bam crits". (I roll in the open so your mileage may vary with the randomness aspect, though)
GM-NPCs are also a good option. I'm not saying a third party member the whole dang time. Just be more open for, when the story makes sense, to allow an NPC to tag along and participate in combat. Make sure they don't outshine the PCs or there will be grumbling. For example, in RotR
I've personally found GM-NPCs to be a great way to get some roleplaying done in the middle of what would otherwise be hack n' slash. Stuff like "you save the prisoner, now they help you a little bit, but mostly provides useful exposition as to what the heck is going on in this evil place"
Quite possibly.
The main problem with fewer players is a loss of action economy- they do not have enough actions to shift the battle before being overrun, at times.
A pet class would help though.
After that, it might not need you to gestalt- a team of a bard and inquisitor can cover most of the basic roles between them (provided they have a bit more resources for things like wands of CLW, and scrolls to help with conditions). But given the fact that you are 2 players down...yeah, maybe a slight edge really is needed...
he says it all. Action economy is going to be a b%*@~. It will not scale even despite their increasedoptions.
There are ways to modify this. Give them a druid companion, regardless of the class the pick, unless it already has one. Treat them as a party of 4 but use the lower CR rating (easy for normaland normal for hard etc). Do not FLOOD them with minis, a full party can roll em, but loss of action economy means enemies should be fewer, but perhaps a little tougher. You can increase WBL by 5% per HD. Of course they need ways to buy it or craft. You can also give them the leadership feat for free. And my favorite, from a homebrewed game
Feat: Twisted economy= Each player gets 2 rounds per turn, one at normal ini one at -5 ini (from normal ini). They decide which class acts at each initiative, but each class only gets 1 "turn" per round. I.e. Cleric Sorcerer, First round casts heal from cleric list, second turn in same round, casts burning hands, etc.
Teamwork is also important. If they can make 2 characters that synergize and have good system mastery, it will probably be ok.