How to deal with dominating ranged char in a group as DM?

[Theconiel]

doctor_marshmallow wrote:

Take one of these, and call me in the morning.

I can vouch for this. First the lich cleric shut down my Zen Archer with this spell, then hit him with Destruction for 180 points of damage, leaving naught but a small pile of ashes.

[Ian Bell]

Monks provide a lot of options here as enemies. They have Deflect Arrows, they can disarm and hold onto the bow, and they're good grapplers who can move quickly to close the distance.

[Purple Dragon Knight]

I didn't read the whole thread but my recommendation is to kill the caster who dominated him asap

[jwes55]

Depends on what the strength of your campaign is. If it's combat then as you can see by the several entries prior to mine, there's some good mechanical options.

A strong narrative/story also solves alot of these issues because it puts focus on roleplaying and social interactions instead of violence. That being said, creating an environment where each player can shine is key. Obviously when it comes to combat you know your Ranger will shine brightly. So create situations where the other players can shine as well. Think about what each player likes and cater to that. It sounds tough but it's actually pretty easy after awhile. Here's an example off the top of my head.

HOLD THEM OFF - this is a simple situational diddy, and there's a ton of different versions of this and even more ways you could implement the situation. A number of players have to hold off a group of enemies while the other players do X. The challenge lies in making X worth the character's time and effort. X can be anything but if it were me I'd make it a diplomacy or a knowledge arcana challenge, something to highlight one of the other players.

As for the players holding off the bad guys, make it your Ranger and a couple other players maybe on ballista or arrow carts or an Arcane Resonance Chamber that enables the Sorceror to shoot out 20 Levels of offensive spells. Really it's up to you at this point since I don't know your table like you do. I'd just throw in extra things and spice this simplistic situation up.

When you start thinking in these terms it opens up a lot of possibilities but the key really is knowing your table, what they like, etc.

[CripDyke]

Quote:

A strong narrative/story also solves alot of these issues because it puts focus on roleplaying and social interactions instead of violence.

I didn't see anyone saying what jwes55 said and was going to make that point, but now it's been made.

If you give people more treasure by having them negotiate for contracts to do things for others, and pay is partially determined by diplomacy, which means by charisma bonus, then you have the player of the archer hanging on his seat hoping his high-CHA friend can get the party a good deal. Having him hang back rooting for the others but powerless to help is good for everyone at the table.

Likewise with knowledge checks trying to get through a puzzle-barrier or just role playing the trying of different options with a puzzle/riddle designed for the players to solve. Don't solve the puzzle? Don't get into the treasure vault. Sure the archer killed the BBEL, but it's going to be a subdued party heading back to the inn with no treasure. If the puzzle uses clues that are simply going to be easier to guess for some PLAYERS, make sure that these are tailored to players other than the archer's player. If the archer-player is an accountant, make sure it doesn't involve numbers. If the archer-player reads a lot of archaeology books, make sure it doesn't involve envisioning the way of life of a society with which the player is familiar. If one of the other players is a biologist, use knowledge checks to reveal info about the skeleton design sculpted into the vault...but whoever makes the knowledge check will get info that only a biologist player will understand.

And all that is still in a combat-heavy storyline. If the characters have a rep, you can use them as trusted disinterested bodyguards/security guards. Even if the archer ends up killing the spy/ secret assassin [/or whatever], the adventure hinges on correctly identifying the person. That will require good role-play and good thinking on the part of the players.

As for combat scenarios:

Hold them off is a good suggestion. You can also use it repeatedly for an adventure or so (not for a campaign!) by having them do some heroic deed (steal the idol of X, desecrate the shrine of Y) that is supposed to forestall invasion/war/catastrophe by limiting the power of the enemy force.

HOWEVER the enemy force is still plenty strong enough to kill the PCs. Don't let them kill the BB. Make it clear the BB is too tough and they'll have to sneak in to sabotage the enemy's magical heart-of-power. THEN as they are leaving an entire army comes flooding after them, with 20-30 characters of the APL in the force and 2-12 characters above that and then the BB. If the players do well, they can lay false trails and split up the enemy. But at numerous places the enemy will hold a choke point (cut a rope bridge, guard a crossroad, etc) and the party will have to do 2 things at once:
1: combat to hold off enemy/ stop messengers/ silence alarm-ringers
and
2: create a way out of the trap (magical bridge, whatever).

While the archer will be naturally drawn to the combat and be encouraged into combat by the other players' characters (as the archer is the most powerful combat character), everyone should be clear that **actual combat to the deathless is hopeless**. The more time you give to the enemy to catch up to you, the more certain your destruction. So however well the archer does, it doesn't matter: saving the party is up to the person/s figuring out a way around the ambush or over the gorge or whatever.

Every 2nd or 3rd encounter can be like this (every other planned encounter + a certain number of random encounters when patrols get un/lucky) for quite a while. Maybe as many as 4 of these "hold them off" encounters + even the other encounters will still be in an environment where speed is more important than inflicting death. The archer can be proud of shooting someone about to blow a horn - who had 7 hit points - while someone else took on the BB of the encounter. In this case, playing lookout and timing your shot is more important than killing the BB of the encounter. This makes someone else a combat-hero and puts the archer in the role of saving the party from their pursuers (just as a switch from other times when the archer was focussed on big combat while the other party members were solving a puzzle).

Also, use disable device differently for dramatic effect. If they are fleeing headlong (and you should know where they are likely to be fleeing headlong), they can't be checking for traps. Make the traps things that capture prisoners rather than kill invaders. The enemy wants to catch these folk that invaded their sanctum after all. Or maybe the enemy doesn't mind killing some, but wants at least one alive. Who knows. In any case, if a party member steps into a bear-trap, then the challenge will be to disable device before the entire army catches up with them.

Of course, since the investigator is an NPC, sometimes the trap will be disarmed by the NPC, but other times the NPC will only know what to do...but not be able to do it (at least not quickly). Need to destroy a pin holding the release mechanisms apart? Maybe heat metal is the best way to do it. If the investigator determines that it's a fool-proof trap, unless someone can sunder it (and even then, it will inflict mobility-compromising injury) then you've got the barbarian trying to break it with one blow while the healer stands by with a crucial healing spell to make sure that they aren't slowed down in their escape. The barbarian might choose to hold back some damage, hoping to forestall any accidental amputations (or otherwise limit the damage to the trapped character) ...but that risks needing multiple tries on the sunder, and the enemy is just over the hill.

Again, the ranger sits by helpless, even if the ranger isn't the one in the trap, when facing a life-or-death situation for the party.

Really, whether it's about increasing the role-play-to-success elements or just creating a dramatic chase where more than one thing is important at the same time, there are a ton of ways that the drama can center around other characters even when only one is consistently dealing high damage.

[Avatar-1]

Can he actually take Point Blank Master as a combat style feat? I'm not seeing it on the list, and it otherwise requires fighter levels.

I've got a gunslinger I love that I had to de-optimise once I saw how much damage it was doing, quite similar to your guy. I love this gunslinger, but trust me, he can be encouraged to take some feats that aren't going to destroy everything he comes across. There's a lot of feats in this game and he'll have other advantages that aren't just pure damage.

Off the top of my head, I took point blank shot, rapid shot, precise shot (which I might swap out), deadly aim, improved critical, critical focus (which I might swap out), toughness, dodge. His big issue is that he provokes AoO's a lot, and I've been trying to stay away from the snap shot line of feats if I can help it. Gunslingers happen to have the added caveat that they can misfire on a to-hit roll of 1-3, which you can reduce but I've avoided. He's still super fun to play, still very effective, and it promotes teamwork in the party.

[Ian Bell]

Avatar-1 wrote:

Can he actually take Point Blank Master as a combat style feat? I'm not seeing it on the list, and it otherwise requires fighter levels.

It's in the text of the feat itself.

[Rycaut]

And an interesting note - Point Blank Master doesn't actually require fighter levels directly - it just requires Weapon Specialization (in the ranged weapon you take point blank master in). Weapon Specialization however requires being a Fighter level 4 and having weapon focus and proficiency. But if you get weapon specialization in some other manner (a class feature for example) you qualify to take Point Blank Master.

[kirkspencer]

My personal favorite annoyance vs archers is the tower shield. Standard action: shield provides total cover on one edge of your space. This leaves the move action open.

Anyone can use a tower shield this way. The penalty only applies if it's necessary to do a skill check for moving - and the archer isn't going to force that check.

Then you compound it, because another NPC can also use that cover. So two NPCs per tower shield advance on your party, ignoring the archer.

[Kobold Catgirl]

That moment where the title of the thread is also the answer to the question...