Irrevocability of switching to non-Core Campaign

[rknop]

Robert Hetherington wrote:

So, there are plenty of complex abilities, and people use them incorrectly all the time.

It drives me a little nuts but I'm still trying to train myself to trust the players more and not worry so much about them getting things wrong. (Even though they do with disturbing frequency)

This.

Players get stuff wrong all the time. GMs do too, of course. But, nominally, part of your role as GM is to know the system, and know when players are getting things wrong. You're storyteller, you run the world, you play all the NPCs, but you're also the rules arbiter and the "referee" for the table.

Yes, at this point, you have little choice but to trust the PCs, because the system has become so huge and so complex that your chance of knowing the build that the PC has, and knowing if all of the various interactions of the abilities are being interpreted correctly, is very small. This doesn't mean the players are doing it right, however. Especially given things like Archives of Nethys, players pull things from all sources without realizing it. (Worse, they pull things from d20pfsrd, which has no indication if it's PFS legal. I had a player try to summon a "Cold Iron Elemental" one time, and asserted to me that it was in the original Bestiary.)

If you're just playing Core, you may have a hope of recognizing when the player makes a mistake.

If you're playing standard PFS, increasingly there's no chance of that.

So, yeah, if you want to have a hope of recognizing when the player makes a mistake, it makes a huge difference. Some of us still haven't let go of wanting to have a hope in that case.

[Azothath]

In general as a GM as a part of your table start-up you should talk to the players. Ask them if they have any complicated abilities or things they have questions about as you'd rather clear up any questions before the game starts. It is better to catch mistakes, misconceptions, and get differences of opinion (GM gray areas) out of the way rather than have you say "no" during the game where it's going to be a "surprise". Nobody wants wrangling in the middle of a game or the game flow to stop. It also lets them know that you are likely to say NO (if it's in the GMs gray area) if they spring it later on you. They had the opportunity to switch characters or tables at the start of the game. I think that's a lot better strategy than just waiting until it happens in game and butting heads.

Given the complexity and various rules it'll also be a learning experience for the GM to see what "tricks of the trade" are going about. Many are clearly legal, some are not, and the hard ones rely on GM interpretation (gray area) and thus your buy in. While some people would like no gray areas that just isn't practical given the game and the rules as written. One thing it does is it gets you thinking about it. That way you'll have some reasonable rationale if you want to say no the second time around and here's why... Other times you'll find a flaw where the player hasn't done his research.

Core has a simpler rule set and smaller scope than the standard campaign but there are still gray areas. Needless to say, Core is simpler and easier.

So - Irrevocability of (characters) switching to non-Core Campaign seems a no brainer, but really this thread when started was about play opportunities and the impact of Core on Standard campaigns.

I can say that this hasn't been a concern for the play in my area.
I assume that if a GM goes Core and wants all the players to be core that they will go along as it's the only game in town. If they really wanted Standard then one should GM Standard or convince the Core GM to relent and run Standard. So it's more a social issue than a PFS issue.
It's really a matter of taste and what you want to do for entertainment.

[Dave Setty]

kinevon wrote:

Dave, please stop being intentionally obtuse.

Hmm, I hate it when people do that, and here I am doing it. Result of posting angry. I'm very, very sorry. More thoughts later.

[kinevon]

Dave Setty wrote:

kinevon wrote:

Dave, please stop being intentionally obtuse.

Hmm, I hate it when people do that, and here I am doing it. Result of posting angry. I'm very, very sorry. More thoughts later.

My apologies in return, I was rude.

Sometimes things obvious to one person are not obvious to another. I should have been clearer in my original post, as well.

To be honest, I have been having more and more issues with GMing Standard PFS. I can do it, but the fun gets harder and harder to find. Core is easier on my poor mind, so it is easier to have fun, which makes for more fun at the table, on both sides of the screen.