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So, once the spell is up and active, it seems like any time you speak you can choose to have your voice emanate from another location?
Would this then allow you to make your voice seem to come from another location when you utter the verbal components for subsequent spells?
Now, I know that Ventriloquism breaks invisibility because it directly triggers a save, BUT if you were doing this while hiding using stealth or when dealing with an opponent that cannot see you by some other means, could you mislead your enemies into thinking you're elsewhere when you cast a spell?
Key phrases from the rules' text:
From Ventriloquism:
You can make your voice (or any sound that you can normally make vocally) seem to issue from someplace else. You can speak in any language you know.
Bolded section implies "you" are still the one actually doing the speaking, or it would say "You can make the illusory voice speak in any language you know."
Additionally, Ventriloquism is an "effect" spell, meaning it has no target. Not even personal. So there's nothing to suggest the location is fixed or immutable once cast.
From "Figment" (Ventriloquism is a Figment):
Figment: A figment spell creates a false sensation. Those who perceive the figment perceive the same thing, not their own slightly different versions of the figment. It is not a personalized mental impression. Figments cannot make something seem to be something else. A figment that includes audible effects cannot duplicate intelligible speech unless the spell description specifically says it can. If intelligible speech is possible, it must be in a language you can speak. If you try to duplicate a language you cannot speak, the figment produces gibberish. Likewise, you cannot make a visual copy of something unless you know what it looks like (or copy another sense exactly unless you have experienced it).
Because figments and glamers are unreal, they cannot produce real effects the way that other types of illusions can. Figments and glamers cannot cause damage to objects or creatures, support weight, provide nutrition, or provide protection from the elements. Consequently, these spells are useful for confounding foes, but useless for attacking them directly.
The bolded bit, when combined with ventriloquism, makes it appear that the "illusion" is the location of your voice. You are speaking, and the "false sensation" is the location, not the voice itself. You are actually doing the speaking. Ventriloquism is written such that it implies you are still doing the actual speaking, and the magic is making your voice seem to emanate from elsewhere. Once the spell has been cast it requires no other actions other than speaking or making a verbal noise. It does not even require concentration. So that seems to suggest any time you speak you can choose to have your voice seem to come from elsewhere within range.
If true this would also mean one could not project their voice from within the effect of a Silence spell to the outside, as the caster needs to be able to speak to project their voice. But by RAW it seems like a caster could use Ventriloquism to befuddle and mislead any target that cannot see them by making their verbal components seem to emanate from another location.
Lastly, look at Silence, it is a Glamer spell not a Figment. So, Ventriloquism would not be "suppressing" your own voice similar to Silence. Meaning, it looks like you're still able to speak normally. The illusion is just changing the apparent location of your voice.
What do you all think?
That's a pretty clever use of that spell. I would probably allow it, but say that anyone who made their save would know where you are/what square your voice is actually originating from.
I also think it won't work against creatures who are immune to mind-affecting spells.
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That's a pretty clever use of that spell. I would probably allow it, but say that anyone who made their save would know where you are/what square your voice is actually originating from.
I also think it won't work against creatures who are immune to mind-affecting spells.
It's a figment so it creates false sensation, but that sensation exists externally in some fashion even though it's illusory. Figments specifically work on anything so long as the figment you are creating matches up with the senses of anything viewing/interacting with it in some way, regardless of any magical immunities or spell resist.
So, a blind target would have no idea that a silent image was around. But if you use major image, then anyone who can see, hear, smell, or even feel heat would sense the figment of a camp fire. Only when they interacted with it by trying to put it out, cook a s'more, or spend a standard action scrutinizing it would they get a save or be allowed to make an SR check.
Figments are incredibly useful because even things like golems can be fooled (though magic immune golems make their save automatically if they interact). And, most figments must be interacted with in some way. The only reason Ventriloquism allows a save right away is because the spell specifically says it does. Normally, one must take some kind of action that interacts with a figment before they even get a save as I showed in my camp fire example.
Illusionists and illusion spells are very useful even against creatures immune to mind effecting, contrary to common wisdom. You just have to get creative. :)