Im torn on the idea of adjuncts and poor pay. Partly, I see it as an entitlement issue and partly I see it as trying to make a part-time job be full-time work.
PhD Adjuncts at my local community college earn $40 per contact hour (page 16) and that includes a mandatory 1 hour of "office hours" per week even if the instructor doesn't have an office and meets with students by arrangement only. So, an instructor teaching a lab class will have 3 contact hours for lecture, 3 for the lab, and 1 office hour. So that's 280 bucks or $1175 a month for teaching a single class. If the instructor were to teach a full load of 12 hours or about $3500 a month. That's with 8 weeks off a year, ultimate flexibility in scheduling, and still only working 20-22 hours a week.
This is particularly notable with automatically graded coursework, use of blackboard to rollover and copy classes. The job is only asking you to present course material in a compelling way and then go home.
If you are having issues making ends meet on a part time gig, then maybe try working full time; also maybe teaching isn't what is best for you and your family and you should look into the practical career of your field of study.
Well as mentioned, there is a substantial amount of variation in what adjuncts make (again, in Laramie it worked out to be $400 a month for a general biology course, while in Northern Michigan I think I worked it out to be somewhere around $600 a month). And something to consider is I don't know anywhere where its just regurgitation and computers correcting material. My friends who adjunct teach are also responsible for creating all their presentation material and quizzes, and none of the classes I taught at any level were simply scantron...grading can stack up quite a bit for essays and such. And those 8 weeks of vacation could also be looked at as 2 months of unemployment.
I don't think adjuncts at community college should be pulling in Salaries equivalent to that of profs at 4 year or...
Pearson and McGraw Hill are universally adopted and provide digital content that the instructor need only select and assign, then the next time they teach that class they don't even have to do that much work because they can just rollover their blackboard class which integrates seamlessly with pearson's "mastering" series and mc graw hill's "learn" series.
Provided to the students behind a paywall naturally. Instructor PowerPoint slides are created to have parity with the courses textbook including the same charts and images.
Scantron tests are always instructor discretion and grading essays is not what it used to be now that "turnitin" is a thing.
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Oh, I hated Blackboard. And those slides. I'd almost blocked all that out...
My university experience was half great, and half... that. Especially because some classes were only available in seven weeks. Which had mandatory Blackboard.
One of my friends, who worked in the library, had a saying:
"Davenport University: the Q stands for quality!"
Oh, I hated Blackboard. And those slides. I'd almost blocked all that out...
My university experience was half great, and half... that. Especially because some classes were only available in seven weeks. Which had mandatory Blackboard.
One of my friends, who worked in the library, had a saying:
"Davenport University: the Q stands for quality!"
Unfortunately, that is what the undergraduate system is becoming.
At both research Universities I have been associated, there have been non tenure track faculty hired to teach courses. Obviously they are not getting rid of the tenure system, but they are trying to cut costs as they raise attendance in basic courses.
Same thing they did with the unions. Let the current members keep their benefits, just don't give out any new ones. No one with any power is fighting you so no one opposes it even though the end is the same: no one with any benefits but you.
Im torn on the idea of adjuncts and poor pay. Partly, I see it as an entitlement issue and partly I see it as trying to make a part-time job be full-time work.
PhD Adjuncts at my local community college earn $40 per contact hour (page 16) and that includes a mandatory 1 hour of "office hours" per week even if the instructor doesn't have an office and meets with students by arrangement only. So, an instructor teaching a lab class will have 3 contact hours for lecture, 3 for the lab, and 1 office hour. So that's 280 bucks or $1175 a month for teaching a single class. If the instructor were to teach a full load of 12 hours or about $3500 a month. That's with 8 weeks off a year, ultimate flexibility in scheduling, and still only working 20-22 hours a week.
This is particularly notable with automatically graded coursework, use of blackboard to rollover and copy classes. The job is only asking you to present course material in a compelling way and then go home.
If you are having issues making ends meet on a part time gig, then maybe try working full time; also maybe teaching isn't what is best for you and your family and you should look into the practical career of your field of study.
Well as mentioned, there is a substantial amount of variation in what adjuncts make (again, in Laramie it worked out to be $400 a month for a general biology course, while in Northern Michigan I think I worked it out to be somewhere around $600 a month). And something to consider is I don't know anywhere where its just regurgitation and computers correcting material. My friends who adjunct teach are also responsible for creating all their presentation material and quizzes, and none of the classes I taught at any level were simply scantron...grading can stack up quite a bit for essays and such. And those 8 weeks of vacation could also be looked at as 2 months of unemployment.
I don't think adjuncts at community college should be pulling in Salaries equivalent to that of profs at 4 year or higher universities. But there should at least be some guarantee that if a prof is sticking around for more than a semester, that he should be guaranteed 12 teaching hours and actually is making a wage he can exist on.
So this.
I think that misses the point of adjuncting. Adjunct positions are designed for field professionals to teach a class, not to give people a post-doc alternative to scramble together multiple part time jobs and complain about not being able to make it.
There isn't a job there for you, you need to move on. That will also allow people who want to actually adjunct a slot to do it.
What kind of message does it send when you get a degree in something and still make less than a waiter to teach it?
I think that misses the point of adjuncting. Adjunct positions are designed for field professionals to teach a class, not to give people a post-doc alternative to scramble together multiple part time jobs and complain about not being able to make it.
There isn't a job there for you, you need to move on. That will also allow people who want to actually adjunct a slot to do it.
The time period where this statement was true has long passed.
The time period where this statement was true has long passed.I think that misses the point of adjuncting. Adjunct positions are designed for field professionals to teach a class, not to give people a post-doc alternative to scramble together multiple part time jobs and complain about not being able to make it.
There isn't a job there for you, you need to move on. That will also allow people who want to actually adjunct a slot to do it.
Only because a glut of applicants are trying to fill a role never designed for them. Seriously, the sooner these people come to term with the fact that there are no jobs here the better off they'll be. I can tilt at windmills all day long complaining about how hard it is to make it as a professional golfer but all I can find are jobs selling clubs at golfsmith; that isn't the PGA's fault.
I can complain about how hard it is to break into the RPG industry and how freelancers get paid paltry wages by comparison to other content creators, but that doesn't make it Paizo's fault.
As soon as these people figure out that there isn't a job for them the better off they'll be. Until then it is an elitist entitlement expectation. Blue Collar Woes of the Ivory Tower.
You defend an establishment with increasing maintenance and administration staff and fees at the cost of those who would actually go into the fields the organization was created to oversee. That's not Blue Collar Woes of the Ivory Tower, it's someone sleeping slapping the snooze button every time the alarm goes off.
The PGA is a far better example than Paizo with respect to the conversation being had here. Poor form including them.
You defend an establishment with increasing maintenance and administration staff and fees at the cost of those who would actually go into the fields the organization was created to oversee. That's not Blue Collar Woes of the Ivory Tower, it's someone sleeping slapping the snooze button every time the alarm goes off.
The PGA is a far better example than Paizo with respect to the conversation being had here. Poor form including them.
I simply defend pragmatism over delusion. People are expecting to graduate and be handed a tenure job, that's not likely to happen, those have alway been fiercely competitive. People find themselves able to land one course as an adjunct per semester. That is the system working as intended. You are meant to be a professional in your field in combination with that one course, not try to scrap several together to scratch out a wage.
Beating your head against the wall and complaining that that wall doesn't yeild and your head is bleeding doesn't help anyone. You have the highest obtainable education in your field, go work in it.
If you chose poorly you can look in the mirror, but someone mentioned a biology professional earlier and there is simply no reason to not have a job with those credentials.
Edit: on the note about Paizo: some players play the game fairly, but that doesn't make the system perfect. Last I was aware they paid 8cents a word which is still below many other content creation jobs. They also freelance out more work than several full timers could handle because they want to keep the company small.
Go where?I was assuming you'd pick up on my statementAs Krugman states, the problem is power distribution in the economy.and run with it.
Vive la Révolution! ...or some such.
Vive le Galt!!!
Good enough?
I simply defend pragmatism over delusion. People are expecting to graduate and be handed a tenure job, that's not likely to happen, those have alway been fiercely competitive.You defend an establishment with increasing maintenance and administration staff and fees at the cost of those who would actually go into the fields the organization was created to oversee. That's not Blue Collar Woes of the Ivory Tower, it's someone sleeping slapping the snooze button every time the alarm goes off.
The PGA is a far better example than Paizo with respect to the conversation being had here. Poor form including them.
this is quite fair.
People find themselves able to land one course as an adjunct per semester. That is the system working as intended. You are meant to be a professional in your field in combination with that one course, not try to scrap several together to scratch out a wage.
this is not. As pointed out earlier, the world has changed, and not due to thoseeeeeevil adjuncts trying to game thr system, but due to college/departments trying to keep costs down while maximizing profits. I experienced only a very little bit of this myself when I was in college, things have gotten considerably worse in recent years. Protests at nyu and hunter college stand out in my mind with respect to students demanding they get a professor teaching them, not an adjunct.
Beating your head against the wall and complaining that that wall doesn't yeild and your head is bleeding doesn't help anyone. You have the highest obtainable education in your field, go work in it.
If you chose poorly you can look in the mirror, but someone mentioned a biology professional earlier and there is simply no reason to not have a job with those credentials.
It happens. Not everyone gets a job in the field they are most skilled in. At my second job, I have worked with people who are more skilled than me, people on the same level,and people who are professionals in other fields who work in sex research either to give back to their community or because they didn't make this round of auditions for theatre.
Edit: on the note about Paizo: some players play the game fairly, but that doesn't make the system perfect. Last I was aware they paid 8cents a word which is still below many other content creation jobs. They also freelance out more work than several full timers could handle because they want to keep the company small.
paizo is a role playing game company. They are not an institution of higher learning.
Great, now I've got fantasies of Paizo High School stuck in my head. Can you pass Mr. Mona's english class, avoid getting beaten up by SKR, and ask Sara Marie to prom? You better roll well!
One La Principessa liked:
Tuition[edit]
Students pay a registration fee on a sliding scale of $10 to $50 determined by income and country of residence. University of the People requires a tuition to be paid in the form of a $100 administration fee for each exam a student takes.[14] To complete an Associate degree (A.S.), a student must take 20 exams and 40 exams for a Bachelor Degree, which costs a total of $2,000 and $4,000 respectively. Students who cannot afford to pay can apply for scholarships.[15][/i]Now that's a different approach. You can learn for free but if you want to be certified you have to pay a very reasonable price for the certification.
They only offer two degrees though and I'm uncertain as to how transferable one of those degrees would be to an actual job. It seems fully legit but looks Diploma Mill-esk to me.
-esque*
And business degrees have always been rather dubious in their value (no matter the institution that awarded them) with a notable exception of 1998-2008. And to be honest, calling it a science degree doesn't make me feel any better about it.
Quark, "diploma mill" would typically be used to refer to an institution without accreditation or with fraudulent accreditation, which it does not seem is the case here. Similarly according to Wiki they tend to lack personnel and often not offer actual teaching (or if so, from teachers with bogus degrees from the same place). Also does not seem to be the case for this university, which, according to Google, has teaching standards and partnerships with major physical universities.
What makes you think it is a diploma mill or similar to one?
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Quark, "diploma mill" would typically be used to refer to an institution without accreditation or with fraudulent accreditation, which it does not seem is the case here. Similarly according to Wiki they tend to lack personnel and often not offer actual teaching (or if so, from teachers with bogus degrees from the same place). Also does not seem to be the case for this university, which, according to Google, has teaching standards and partnerships with major physical universities.
What makes you think it is a diploma mill or similar to one?
He's 18 and the model is different from a traditional university.
What makes you think it is a diploma mill or similar to one?
The fact that it's not regionally accredited. Basically, I can establish "Orfamay Quest's Accreditation Agency" and any school that likes can pay me $20 and call themselves "accredited."
Which is, as far as I can tell, exactly what happened here. There are, in the USA, six accreditation agencies that count. UofP is accredited by none of them.
Ergo, a card-carrying diploma mill.
When you can get either of those degrees at a Community College for less than 2 or 4 thousand dollers TOTAL expenditure, come back to me on that.
From a community college that is not regionally accredited, and therefore not able to transfer to any of the "real" schools?
Consider yourself gotten back to. I'll give you a B.S. in anything you like for $3995 cash.
When you can get either of those degrees at a Community College for less than 2 or 4 thousand dollers TOTAL expenditure, come back to me on that.From a community college that is not regionally accredited, and therefore not able to transfer to any of the "real" schools?
Consider yourself gotten back to. I'll give you a B.S. in anything you like for $3995 cash.
Did you even bother to go to the website and look at the accreditation section?
I did. Did you?
University of the People has been accredited by the Distance Education Accrediting Commission (DEAC) since February 2014. Click here to view the DEAC Consumer Information Disclosure Form.
Great. Accreditation by one of the dozens of substandard boards.
The practice of accreditation provides a standard level of quality for institutions and programs across the United States.
A blatant lie. Not an auspicious statement.
The DEAC was founded in 1926 and is a private, non-profit organization that operates as a national accreditor.
National. Not regional. Diploma mill.
The DEAC Accrediting Commission is recognized by the U.S. Department of Education and by the Council for Higher Education Accreditation (CHEA) as a national institutional accrediting organization.
"Recognized." So there's a list somewhere in a government file drawer. Doesn't mean much. "Recognition" is specifically not a recommendation or quality judgment.
That's actually the page I checked that proved to my satisfaction that it's a diploma mill. No regional accreditation == diploma mill.
What makes you think it is a diploma mill or similar to one?
The fact that it's not regionally accredited. Basically, I can establish "Orfamay Quest's Accreditation Agency" and any school that likes can pay me $20 and call themselves "accredited."
Which is, as far as I can tell, exactly what happened here. There are, in the USA, six accreditation agencies that count. UofP is accredited by none of them.
Hm. Looking further into it, not quite, but part of your point is fair.
I can see that this is not an accreditation as prestigious as regional accreditation. On the other hand, the result is not an accreditation mill such as you suggest.
Orfamay Quest's Accreditation Agency that you start in your basement tomorrow would not be a nationally recognized accreditor, the Distance Education Accreditation Commission is.
So while it does seem to be less prestigious than regional accreditation, you also seem to be indulging in some hyperbole.
An accreditation mill is an organization that purports to award educational accreditation to higher education institutions without having government authority or recognition from mainstream academia to operate as an accreditor.
[...]
While standards vary from organization to organization, without recognition from the Council for Higher Education Accreditation (CHEA) (a non-governmental organization) or the United States Department of Education, the claims made by independent groups hold no value in the academic community.
It seems that the accreditor has recognition from both the Department of Education and the council.
I'm not going to stand too fast behind basic Wiki research, but can you show where it's wrong?
What makes you think it is a diploma mill or similar to one?
The fact that it's not regionally accredited. Basically, I can establish "Orfamay Quest's Accreditation Agency" and any school that likes can pay me $20 and call themselves "accredited."
Which is, as far as I can tell, exactly what happened here. There are, in the USA, six accreditation agencies that count. UofP is accredited by none of them.
Ergo, a card-carrying diploma mill.
the accreditation process has kinda become an old boys network at this point. not that nonaccredited places are exactly all well and good, but organizations that accredit others have long made it known that they aren't interested in any "new" universities, which makes getting anything off the ground quite difficult.
An accreditation mill is an organization that purports to award educational accreditation to higher education institutions without having government authority or recognition from mainstream academia to operate as an accreditor.
[...]
While standards vary from organization to organization, without recognition from the Council for Higher Education Accreditation (CHEA) (a non-governmental organization) or the United States Department of Education, the claims made by independent groups hold no value in the academic community.
It seems that the accreditor has recognition from both the Department of Education and the council.
I'm not going to stand too fast behind basic Wiki research, but can you show where it's wrong?
You're not understanding the role that national accreditation plays in the USA. The "first line," as it were, of accreditation are the six regional agencies, which accredit traditional universities, such as Harvard or UIUC. The national agencies were established later, generally on a disciplinary basis, to accredit programs that did not fit into the traditional programs (e.g., the ABA accredits law schools, including free-standing law schools that are not part of a traditional university, and the National Association of Schools of Dance, Commission on Accreditation does the same for dance schools).
In part because of this, many (most?) "real" colleges and universities will not accept courses, credits, or degrees from non regionally-accredited programs. So an A.S. from CofP is likely to count as toilet paper -- literally -- when you try to apply to Berkeley as a transfer student. Similarly, the B.S. is likely not to count if you want to get an M.S. from Penn,... or even U. Montana.
Looking further into it:
Regionally accredited higher education institutions are predominantly academically oriented, non-profit, or state-owned institutions.[11][12][13] Nationally accredited schools are predominantly for-profit and offer vocational, career or technical programs.
While I can see that national accreditation is kind of low horsepower, Orfamay, I don't see the fraudulent connotations you're implying - that would seem to lie in accreditations that are neither regional nor national.
Quark, "diploma mill" would typically be used to refer to an institution without accreditation or with fraudulent accreditation, which it does not seem is the case here. Similarly according to Wiki they tend to lack personnel and often not offer actual teaching (or if so, from teachers with bogus degrees from the same place). Also does not seem to be the case for this university, which, according to Google, has teaching standards and partnerships with major physical universities.
What makes you think it is a diploma mill or similar to one?
Because no one proxies the test assuring that the one who receives certification is the one who sat for the exams.
The amount of money being made limits the ability to formalize the degree earning process. Lack of formality is a hallmark of bogus degrees.
The degrees are extremely limited and "meh" degrees at that (cf BTDB's latest comment above).
That makes it Diploma Mill-esque (thx BDTB :), no?
Uh, sorry to break it to you, but it is very easy to cheat in college. A lot of professors never learn the faces of their students, especially with some students never going to classes, or professors not even showing up to exams and just letting their TAs run them. Not once did I see a professor check ids.
Not to mention colleges and universities that offer degrees entirely online.
Ooo! Ooo! My cynicism pans out again.
Couple more victories like this and I'll be fashionably cynical.
Assuming Orfamay demonstrates his assertion that the accreditation is exactly equal to one he could produce, wouldn't this be your cynicism's first victory?
Which, I grant, would be progress. I'm willing to grant that it could happen, although I haven't seen the claimed fraud demonstrated yet, just that the accreditation is lower horsepower. (A point that doesn't seem that shocking, though it is fair and not one I would have realized if he had not pointed it out).
Quark, "diploma mill" would typically be used to refer to an institution without accreditation or with fraudulent accreditation, which it does not seem is the case here. Similarly according to Wiki they tend to lack personnel and often not offer actual teaching (or if so, from teachers with bogus degrees from the same place). Also does not seem to be the case for this university, which, according to Google, has teaching standards and partnerships with major physical universities.
What makes you think it is a diploma mill or similar to one?
Because no one proxies the test assuring that the one who receives certification is the one who sat for the exams.
The amount of money being made limits the ability to formalize the degree earning process. Lack of formality is a hallmark of bogus degrees.
The degrees are extremely limited and "meh" degrees at that (cf BTDB's latest comment above).
That makes it Diploma Mill-esque (thx BDTB :), no?
Uh, sorry to break it to you, but it is very easy to cheat in college. A lot of professors never learn the faces of their students, especially with some students never going to classes, or professors not even showing up to exams and just letting their TAs run them. Not once did I see a professor check ids.
Not to mention colleges and universities that offer degrees entirely online.
When I went to a traditional high powered school, they let us take the tests and go off wherever to fill them in. Didn't have to take them in classroom. In the higher level classics courses which I remember better, about half the class would take it somewhere other than the classroom.
And watching you back-peddle from someone that's not BigDTBone is worth whatever lumps I have to take.
Back-pedaling is something that good faith discourse about subjects you aren't well educated in does require, from time to time.
Quark, "diploma mill" would typically be used to refer to an institution without accreditation or with fraudulent accreditation, which it does not seem is the case here. Similarly according to Wiki they tend to lack personnel and often not offer actual teaching (or if so, from teachers with bogus degrees from the same place). Also does not seem to be the case for this university, which, according to Google, has teaching standards and partnerships with major physical universities.
What makes you think it is a diploma mill or similar to one?
Because no one proxies the test assuring that the one who receives certification is the one who sat for the exams.
The amount of money being made limits the ability to formalize the degree earning process. Lack of formality is a hallmark of bogus degrees.
The degrees are extremely limited and "meh" degrees at that (cf BTDB's latest comment above).
That makes it Diploma Mill-esque (thx BDTB :), no?
Uh, sorry to break it to you, but it is very easy to cheat in college. A lot of professors never learn the faces of their students, especially with some students never going to classes, or professors not even showing up to exams and just letting their TAs run them. Not once did I see a professor check ids.
learned this the hard way myself.
Yeah, I doubt that was actually very traditional ;) Just an anecdote.
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Ooo! Ooo! My cynicism pans out again.
Couple more victories like this and I'll be fashionably cynical.
You're not cynical. You're seventeen.
Not only do you not know what cynicism is, you also are completely ignorant about near infinite number of things you are ignorant of.
Go have a milkshake with your friends or something.
Could we leave off with the ad homs on this guy? If you're making bad arguments against his positions it looks like you can't make good arguments against his positions.