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This is something I'd like to know more about;
Mount (Ex):
A cavalier gains the service of a loyal and trusty steed to carry him into battle. This mount functions as a druid's animal companion, using the cavalier's level as his effective druid level.[...]The mount is [u]always considered combat trained[/u] and begins play with Light Armor Proficiency as a bonus feat.
By RAW, the Mount ability is the same as the druid's animal companion, except for a few considerations. In the considerations, it is mentioned that a mount is always considered combat trained. Always.
Combat training per Handle Animal;
Combat Training (DC 20)
An animal trained to bear a rider into combat knows the tricks attack, come, defend, down, guard, and heel. Training an animal for combat riding takes 6 weeks. You may also “upgrade” an animal trained for riding to one trained for combat by spending 3 weeks and making a successful DC 20 Handle Animal check. The new general purpose and tricks completely replace the animal's previous purpose and any tricks it once knew. Many horses and riding dogs are trained in this way.
So, here's the question; if a mount, unlike an animal companion, is always considered combat trained, does this mean that they get more tricks?
Teach an Animal a Trick
You can teach an animal a specific trick with one week of work and a successful Handle Animal check against the indicated DC. An animal with an Intelligence score of 1 can learn a maximum of three tricks, while an animal with an Intelligence score of 2 can learn a maximum of six tricks.
Bonus Tricks:
The value given in this column is the total number of “bonus” tricks that the animal knows in addition to any that the druid might choose to teach it (see the Handle Animal skill). These bonus tricks don’t require any training time or Handle Animal checks, and they don’t count against the normal limit of tricks known by the animal. The druid selects these bonus tricks, and once selected, they can’t be changed.
So, let's throw this all on a heap; Animals with intelligence 2 can be taught a maximum of 6 tricks. Animal companions increase this amount with bonus tricks. However; mounts are always considered combat trained and know the tricks; attack, come, defend, down, guard, and heel. Does this mean that mounts are always considered combat trained, even though they know six other tricks than the ones listed under combat training? Or does this mean that mounts have 6 standard tricks from combat training that is expanded upon by bonus tricks?
Summary;
Is it Intelligence times thee plus bonus feats plus combat training? Or does the "always combat trained" override the initial one? It seems likely that it is the former. But what about things like cave salamanders which have intelligence 1? Are they also always considered combat trained, even though they can't learn that amount of tricks normally?
Combat Training is taking up all six of the available tricks for Int 2 animal companion. Any more tricks requires bonus tricks.
Combat Training is taking up all six of the available tricks for Int 2 animal companion. Any more tricks requires bonus tricks.what about mounts that aren't smart enough to know all of the tricks? How does that work with the rule about his mount always being combat trained?
I'm not sure there are any Int 1 creatures legal to take as cavalier mounts without "GM approval", but if you did, I think you'd have a trick debt to deal with until you got to an equivalent druid level of 9 (4th bonus trick.) The mount would still be combat-trained, you'd just have to wait longer to get a trick you could actually spend. (Or I guess you could use one of your level-up stat increases to go from 1 to 2 to get there earlier.)
I'm not sure. Reads like its 'in addition to' to me. It has it's own paragraph and everything...
Might fall foul of the 'if it looks too good to be true' maxim, animal companions have always been avoided by my players, so never had much call to find out how key tricks are in actual play.
The cavalier mounts come with light armor proficiency and cavaliers don't take armor check penalties to ride checks with them. Seems only fair that their first set of tricks are locked in as they're predominantly combat-focused.
That is a great question. I just picked up a worg mount and now I have to train it but if it gets combat training for free that means I get to start training with utility tricks.
By the way - I assume you mean something other than a worg here. Worgs are magical beasts with an intelligence of 6 and as such would not be covered by any of the animal companion/mount rules at all.
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That is a great question. I just picked up a worg mount and now I have to train it but if it gets combat training for free that means I get to start training with utility tricks.By the way - I assume you mean something other than a worg here. Worgs are magical beasts with an intelligence of 6 and as such would not be covered by any of the animal companion/mount rules at all.
Nope, that's what I meant. A worg would be covered by those rules assuming you have the Monstrous Mount feat and chose the worg as your mount. And yes, I'm quite aware of how many tricks I'll get to teach it ;).
Ah right, I forgot about that feat. I don't think a talking, intelligent creature needs the trick rules at all, though - you can just ask it to do whatever.
When in doubt, read it in the least beneficial way possible.
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Ah right, I forgot about that feat. I don't think a talking, intelligent creature needs the trick rules at all, though - you can just ask it to do whatever.
Unfortunately, just because it's smart doesn't mean it's not an animal companion so it still needs to be handled via the rules (especially if it's for pfs).