The current plan is that creatures not investing any of their actions or effort into perception are effectively "taking 1" at all times. A person being attentive could spend actions to "take 10" or roll on their passive perception (effectively standing alert or on guard).
Subject to change, of course. ;)
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One note on the Perception/Stealth aspect, you might consider unattentive people having only their perception bonus as their check vs stealth. I'm not actively paying attention to things around me, but I consider my perception to be fairly high (for an NPC).
Even when I'm plugging into my Xbone with Warframe going, a headset on one ear and music playing in the other, I'm still always aware of when people enter or exit my house and I can often tell where they are based on the sounds of their footsteps. Plus, as someone with children running around, I know that I can usually pinpoint where kids are without ever looking for them because "I just know" where they are (whereas their own parents often have to get up and look around to find them, I usually have no need).
Anyway, the point being is that, a bad roll on Stealth should still have a chance of triggering an alert from someone who isn't paying attention. If you're sitting down playing Pathfinder and a burgler knocks a shovel or a bucket over outside, there's a chance the people inside will hear it and go explore.
The way I see this happening, is unattentive people are considered to have Taken 0 on their checks, where as sentries might Take 10. With distance, the might not notice the noise, but the Orcs playing guards might grumble about hearing something. This is the classic, "Ah shut up Burt, it's just the bloody raccoons," moment you hear about in stories all the time. Or it might be one of them gets up to go and check it out and then finds a rat in the food supplies and determines it was the rat making the noise while the stealthing person is actually up in the rafters.
Just food for thought.
Noted. Aratrok mentioned something pretty much identical to that last night (I think he compared it to "taking 1". :P
Ninja'd! XD
Pi is an infinite, nonrepeating (sic) decimal - meaning that every possible number combination exists somewhere in pi. Converted into ASCII text, somewhere in that infinite string if digits is the name of every person you will ever love, the date, time and manner of your death, and the answers to all the great questions of the universe.
Do you believe this statement to be true?
[Edit] I wish to clarify my stance. I do not believe pi is an infinite, nonrepeating number. If a number were infinite and nonrepeating at the same time, then the statement that it contains all possible number combinations is true. However, in order for it to contain all possible number combinations, it must also contain a combination of numbers that results in its end. This could be an end in which the math evens out to 0, or it could be an end in which the number results in a repeating equation. Either way, the numbers will come to some sort of end.
This is why I, personally, do not beleive pi is an infinite, nonrepeating number, but that it is unimaginably large with a definite end, or that it is an unimaginably large repeating number, in which case it will never end.
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No, because you can't convert 2, F, P, Z, d, n, or x from decimal to ASCII text without 0s.
Hey Ash... What's happening with the WoWlock?
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Wow, your house rules sound awesome!
Thanks. :D
When can I start playing them?
Hopefully as soon as Aratrok and I have them all into a set of pdf files that are readable. While a lot of the mechanics have been determined and some still in flux and/or in development, actually having them on paper and written well are another thing entirely. So far we've got...
- Getting Started chapter (100% done). This chapter includes a breakdown on ability scores and their function, includes basic rules such as multiplying, common bonus types, bonus spells, and ability score arrays (including premade point-buy arrays for quickly generating characters).
- Skill Overview (80~% done). Explains how things like ranks work, taking 10 works, and making skill checks. Though essentially finished I know that I'm going to need to make some adjustments to the section after the skill revisions have been completed (mostly because the way we're handling skills is more different from Pathfinder than it originally was; with the information posted in this thread being more recent).
- Skill Descriptions (0-5% done). We've axed a bunch of skills and remade a few of the skills. Skills like Knowledge (Arcana) and (Religion) are now their own skills called Arcana and Thaumaturgy which not only are used for knowledge checks related to their fields but have additional uses as well (Arcana ate Spellcraft) and different benefits for putting additional ranks into them. Skills are one of the areas most subject to change during our development because skills have been having issues for a long time in d20 and we really want to get it right.
- Equipment (35-45% done). I've got the prototypes for weapons down (though I might make a few tweaks and sidebars) so there's pretty much just armor left to do and armor will take less time overall than weaponry did to write (there's simply less variance with it and thus less to write). After that it's just adventuring gear, trade goods, and services.
- Magic (0-5% done). We've got some mechanics determined for magic revisions but they haven't been penned yet. Noteable revisions include revised Concentration mechanics (see how Concentration works in my slotless system, which is compatible with normal Pathfinder even if you don't use the slotless rules), revisions to the schools (where schools are subtypes rather than supertypes), and a few other changes (I'm going to note these in my next post).
- Spells (0% done). We haven't even touched this yet but we do know that a lot of spells are going to change levels slightly (mostly the spells that are different levels on different lists) and some may get some revisions.
- Classes (0% done). I'm going to start working on the classes once the core is finished. If you've ever seen any of the classes I've made for the Paizo community you probably have a fair idea of what to expect here. I aim for thematics and replicating tropes in balanced ways as well as letting players experiment and do their own things. As little forced fluff as possible mixed with a whole lot of flavor. The number of classes is going to shrink massively though as we're going for a more refined "less is more" concept. More about this in an upcoming post.
There's a lot of 0% done bits up there but this is actually starting to move on at a pretty rapid pace now as Aratrok and I are putting a lot of our other projects on hold and working on it whenever we have any free time from work & school. Right now the skill system is Aratrok's baby and I'm working on the Combat chapter right now.
How are you going to publish them?
100% digitally and 100% free for the mechanics. If there's enough interest then we might attempt a kickstarter for physical publication or something to that extent. We've also discussed creating a SRD site that presents the rules of the game in a compendium sort of way, where all the mechanics associated with each other are placed in alphabetical order and using links and gateways to allow you to quickly find the rules that you're looking for rather than scrolling through the entire combat chapter or entire magic chapter, etc.
Ideally I'd like to include a free primer for my campaign setting along with it. If that's popular, I might try to start a patreon or something so I can devote my time to producing content rather than only doing it between shifts at my dayjob. My lack of time is the great enemy of getting a lot of my projects done or at a snail's pace (poor Kryzbyn's been waiting on that warlock for ages, and back when I was unemployed I completed virtually all of the warlock that exists in a couple of days). Likewise, you're still waiting on the VBSC adventure... (T_T)
Want me to play test? My group is filled with powergamers.
Awesome. One thing that Aratrok and I are both interested in is serious stress testing. We're going to want you to break the hell out of our system, especially during the playtest periods (when they're officially announced) so that we can actually fix them. Also, since the primary means of obtaining the mechanics will be in digital format, we will not be waiting for new printings to release errata onto our SRD (we'll even include a sort of patchlist on the SRD to let people know about relevant changes). We know what a FAQ is and is not. :P
Is there a google doc or something of the nuts and bolts yet?
Only on my PC and most of them are pretty spotty. However, let me upload a couple of things real quick...
Getting Started, Combat, Equipment.
Also how is the vengeance of the white dragon coming?
Very slowly (I've been pretty much working on our revised core). I've actually considered writing it backwards so I could at least deliver you the encounter with the actual white dragon in a timely fashion.
Hey Ash... What's happening with the WoWlock?
It's mostly been on hold since I'm swamped with project stuff and have little time outside of work. :(
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Some Magical Changes
Here's a quick overview of some of the changes set for the system.
You Must Concentrate!!!
The concentration mechanics are getting revised slightly. Generally speaking you will make fewer Concentration checks but your circumstances will matter more. Things like call for lots of minor concentration checks now apply stacking modifiers to your Concentration checks instead and you only make a single check. It'll basically work like it does in this post. You essentially are always concentrating but you can take-10 on your check so unless someone is actively threatening you or your circumstances become so poor as to not allow you to succeed on a take-10, you won't even notice that every cast has a check involved.
"I run all the schools," - Generalist Wizard
One thing that's a bummer in D&D is the schools. They're flavorful and they serve specific purposes but the problem is they're often bizarre and weird and there's a lot of overlap. It's very difficult to create spells and fit them into schools properly, even for the designers. For example, ever notice that Shield is Evocation and Mage Armor is Conjuration, but Abjuration is the protective magic school? Uhhh...wait...
Because of this, spells no longer governed by schools as a supertype. Instead they belong to schools based on a subtype such as [Abjuration] and Evocation which makes it much easier to not only create new spells (for devs and GMs alike) but it allows players to diversify a bit. This is especially true because you can have a spell that belongs to multiple schools at the same time.
For example, the aforementioned mage armor and shield spells are iconic staples of wizards and have elements of abjuration (protections and wards), conjuration (conjuring armor), and evocation (force) so these spells would be [Abjuration, Conjuration, Evocation] spells. Thus if you were an abjurer, conjurer, or evoker you could select either of these spells as one of your spells during level-ups, and if you have any features that apply specifically to any of those schools (such as the Spell School Focus feat) then you'd get the benefits associated when casting the spell.
No More Spell Lists
This part combines strongly with the class design goals (which are coming in my next post) but we're giving spell lists the axe. We've decided they ultimately do not serve a good purpose and only hurt the game the more developed in becomes. 3.x was notorious for releasing new classes that then never got further support for their spell lists like all the core classes did. Further, even today in Pathfinder, classes can end up missing important spells if a dev forgets to include something that's kind of important for functioning at certain levels or filling specific roles.
Further, individual class spell lists create a lot of potential balance issues (summoner springs to mind but it's not the only one, especially when Samsarans are involved). It over complicates the creation of magic items, spell-like abilities, and more to have spells appearing at different levels on different lists.
Now what we're going to be doing is just making magic and allowing you to create your own spell lists. We'll probably also include packages so you can pick big packs of themed spells. If you're playing a class that should have access to a spell earlier than normal due to its theme, you'll be able to get early access to them as a class feature (similar to how my psychic monk can jump off the psychic warrior list for higher level themed abilities) and will allow you to cast it with a lower level slot but the level remains the same (this also means that if a class can get a themed spell like Bards with irresistible dance then their DC will still be relevant, they just get to cast it with a lower level slot).
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Brb, shower, then more about classes
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Good luck :)
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Keeping it Classy
I'm a bit of a paradox when it comes to game design. I simultaneously believe that "less is more" and "the more the better". The catch is, it varies depending on what "more" is. When it comes to more classes, I'm definitely leaning towards the first, but when it comes to more options I'm shoveling the coal to fuel the engine.
Long story short, I'd rather have 12 classes that can cover virtually every single concept ever, rather than making an entirely new class every time something new comes along. There's a lot of class overlap in Pathfinder (especially after the advanced class guide) and it was just horrible in 3.x.
Instead, we're looking into a simpler system where each class tends to fall within certain standards and is defined from each other by a core mechanic and what talents, feats, and spells they decide to invest in.
For example, Paladins vs Rangers and Clerics vs Druids and Wizards vs Sorcerers are pretty redundant. Instead you'd have 3 classes that you could make into all of those things.
A Comparison to Something Existing
Barbarians in Pathfinder got it right. There usually aren't tons of archetypes for barbarians rather than tons of new rage powers and suggested rage powers for making a barbarian of a certain flavor and fashion.
The Big Three
Because there are no spell lists in the game, there are three primary chassis that are projected for development.
Magic Warrior (Perfect BAB, 5th level spells)
Hybrid (3/4 BAB, 7th level spells)
Magician (1/2 BAB, 10th level spells)
Naturally we'll include non-casting classes as well, but these three chassis here cover the vast majority of what is available in Pathfinder core. Specifically it covers Bards, Clerics, Druids, Paladins, Rangers, Sorcerers, and Wizards, leaving only Barbarian as the remaining core class in Pathfinder (yes, I'm a dick and I love kicking dead horses :P).
Making it Easy To Pickup
We'll have themed starting packages for traditional roles right there in the core. If you want to just have a Druid right out of the gate without picking any abilities yourself.
What Provokes a New Class?
In this system, a new class will only be released when it changes the fundamentals of how the class plays. For example, we don't see much point in having sorcerers and wizards but we do see a point in having mages & psions, as they use an entirely different but balanced system that appeals to different players for different reasons.
Spells Known vs Spell Lists
Our current projection essentially includes allowing characters a sort of universal selection of spells. However all classes that have spells will have a limited selection of spells available to them and will be able to cast them with their spell slots. Certain talents and/or specializations may allow casting higher level spells earlier in some cases.
We've also discussed having certain spells restricted to themed packages that you can pick up with special investments (kind of like how domains, bloodlines, or discipline powers work) which can be used to further make different characters feel more different/special.
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Good luck :)
Thanks. :D
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More on Classes
Here's some more considerations about classes.
Old Tropes, New Options
Since we're cutting the number of classes down and picking the options up, one of the first things that springs to mind as a possibility is cutting down on variant classes. Let's use divine characters as an example for a moment.
Traditionally you have three different archetypes for the divine in fantasy: The holy warrior, the D&D cleric, the white mage. Pathfinder has the Paladin and the Cleric but the Cleric is also kind of the White Mage (it's a hybrid class that casts 9th level spells).
In this system if you wanted to make a holy warrior you would take the Perfect BAB + 1/2 Casting chassis and go that route. The cleric would go to a 3/4 + 3/4 routine (getting up to 7th level spells). Finally you'd have your squishy priest who performed miracles as their primary mode of operation with the 1/2 BAB + Perfect casting.
Same could be said for Rangers or Feral Druids, D&D Druids, and Merlins/Shaman type archetypes.
Same further could be said for a Mage Knight, Bard/Magus, or Wizard/Sorcerer.
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Off to work, be back in about 8 hours.
That sounds exciting. Are witches there? I likes me some Witches Ash (I watched the final season of Charmed if that is any indication) so I would like to throw my hat into the circle of Witch packages.
Thank you
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Cloth cleric is thing that is needed.
How are you handling neat class only things like wildshape or spell combat.
Feats? Class options?
If I can mix and match with more options in one class then it makes it raises the optimization ceiling and makes it easier to make a poor character.
Love the revision so far.
I would imagine, that's where the packages come in. For new players, it might be best for them to take some of the class 'packages' to get a certain type of character.
For example, someone who wants to play a 'Magus' type character might select a hypothetical "Magus package" to make it easy for them to get some of the core abilities. I would imagine it wouldn't select 'all' possible choices, just the abilities that are essential to the 'Magus' letting players customize their characters as they see fit.
For example, it might be fun to play a Magus-styled character that also gains access to a form of wildshape. Or perhaps an Eidolon Magus.
A system like this could allow for lots of customization to fit many different themes of characters.
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RE: Warlock
I shall await patiently (well mostly), as what is there is brilliance.
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That sounds exciting. Are witches there? I likes me some Witches Ash (I watched the final season of Charmed if that is any indication) so I would like to throw my hat into the circle of Witch packages.
Thank you
The beauty of the d20 system is how modular it is. Given the way that we're planning to implement spells, picking witchy-themed spells will be easy. As for setting them up with things like hexes, well that's just a few optional class features away.
Already dotted, and this thread will probabl never die until Ashiel goes poof (somehow I just depressed myself), but... Dot again.
Skimmed the stuff, awesome stuff. Eventually I'll have time to get around to the rest of it and ask questions.
Right now, I'm trying to slay my greatest foe.... Math...
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Cloth cleric is thing that is needed.
How are you handling neat class only things like wildshape or spell combat.
Feats? Class options?
Leaning primarily towards class options. If you've seen my psychic monk from way back when, you'll notice I'm very, very fond of optional class features (you'll notice that the vast majority of the monk features got reshuffled into optional talents).
We're theorycrafting some standards for class design at the moment and weighing their pros and cons, but we do know that however it comes out the need for things like archetypes will be greatly diminished if there is one at all.
At the moment we're letting classes cook on the back burner while we're working on the main course (the core), but here's some of the ideas that we've already got cooked up.
A Core Mechanic: I mentioned earlier that classes that share a vastly different mechanic from one-another are worth being their own classes, while classes that share a similar mechanic can be merged together. Here's two examples of what I mean.
A mechanic that defines a class is likely to be something like Grit, or Rage, or Spells. A sort of resource-driven thing that other class features will often tie-into. I remarked to my brother that I will of course rebuild my gunslinger for the new core, but it won't be a gunslinger. Instead it will be a daring warrior that uses a resource (grit) to do awesome things. Guns will be an option, but you could just as easily have a set of talents and features that are aimed at melee weaponry, or inspiring others, or tanking, or doing other cool things.
Meanwhile, we will probably include optional paths or major class choices that determine specializations. For example, Paladin and Ranger plus an arcane knight equivalent that does not exist in Pathfinder would probably share the same chassis. However, you might have a Champion path (for smites/challenges), a Hunter path (for Favored Enemy type things), or a Magic Knight path (granting the ability to channel spells through weapons), but then they would have talents that could be shared between them (such as animal companions or the ability to add enhancement bonuses to their weapons).
We'll probably also include options for mixing it up between classes. Tels pretty much nailed it when he mentioned things like wild-shaping magi or bards with animal companions and stuff like that. We're pretty excited about it.
Making it Easy: Foremost, I hope that everyone recognizes that Aratrok and I are all about keeping the optimization floor high and the ceiling low. We're also very much aware of the "option paralysis" that can overtake some people. Because of this, when we do finally start working on the classes in detail, we will be including themed packages that will come pre-optimized for certain roles and themes. Allowing people to just dive right in, or use it as a starting point for developing their own characters.
For example, maybe you really like the Ranger package but you don't want to have an animal companion to keep track of, so you might instead opt to make traps instead, or you might decide you like the stealth hunter aspect of it but you would rather trade out your hunting bit for the ability to channel spells through your weapons and then choose spells like contagion and poison to be a sort of magic assassin with a flying familiar as a spy.
Aratrok and I both believe that Roleplaying should never be punished by bad mechanics. If it's not something that we ourselves wouldn't be happy to play, we're not going to make it. We would never dump useless abilities into a package or class and then make the excuse of "it's for flavor". Ideally, we wouldn't make useless abilities in the first place. :P
Love the revision so far.
Thanks. It's back to working on it now that I'm home from work. :)
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I've no idea if you'll like it, or how it fits into your rules options, but this monk fast movement change is something I really liked, and might be nice for you to look into (or might be a horribly unbalanced pile of burning fertilizer). I like the basics of what I'm hearing so far! :D
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Well we're probably murdering the 5-ft. step, so the wording would need some re-arranging at least. :P
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Hah! Good times! :D
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Hah! Good times! :D
One of the reasons the 5 ft. step is getting the axe is we're already encouraging more mobility in encounters. We're probably going to replace it and withdraw with moving defensively which essentially trades away actions to move while covering yourself. It's also going to use a hex map so we won't have 1-2-1-2-1-2-1 squares anymore.
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Hah! Good times! :DOne of the reasons the 5 ft. step is getting the axe is we're already encouraging more mobility in encounters. We're probably going to replace it and withdraw with moving defensively which essentially trades away actions to move while covering yourself. It's also going to use a hex map so we won't have 1-2-1-2-1-2-1 squares anymore.
For the record my group has been using a hex grid to play Pathfinder for quite a while. It's glorious how well it works. :o
Hah! Good times! :DOne of the reasons the 5 ft. step is getting the axe is we're already encouraging more mobility in encounters. We're probably going to replace it and withdraw with moving defensively which essentially trades away actions to move while covering yourself. It's also going to use a hex map so we won't have 1-2-1-2-1-2-1 squares anymore.
My gaming group introduced the house rule that the 5 ft. step provokes AoO, we have been playing this way for about 7 years. Definitely an improvement.
It really helps AoO builds, and makes life more difficult for casters.
We also made amendments to the Withdraw action, that you have to move directly away from your opponent.
Yes I agree, the grid needs to go. Calculating movement needs to be simplified.
Cloth cleric is thing that is needed.
How are you handling neat class only things like wildshape or spell combat.
Feats? Class options?
Leaning primarily towards class options. If you've seen my psychic monk from way back when, you'll notice I'm very, very fond of optional class features (you'll notice that the vast majority of the monk features got reshuffled into optional talents).
We're theorycrafting some standards for class design at the moment and weighing their pros and cons, but we do know that however it comes out the need for things like archetypes will be greatly diminished if there is one at all.
At the moment we're letting classes cook on the back burner while we're working on the main course (the core), but here's some of the ideas that we've already got cooked up.
A Core Mechanic: I mentioned earlier that classes that share a vastly different mechanic from one-another are worth being their own classes, while classes that share a similar mechanic can be merged together. Here's two examples of what I mean.
A mechanic that defines a class is likely to be something like Grit, or Rage, or Spells. A sort of resource-driven thing that other class features will often tie-into. I remarked to my brother that I will of course rebuild my gunslinger for the new core, but it won't be a gunslinger. Instead it will be a daring warrior that uses a resource (grit) to do awesome things. Guns will be an option, but you could just as easily have a set of talents and features that are aimed at melee weaponry, or inspiring others, or tanking, or doing other cool things.
Meanwhile, we will probably include optional paths or major class choices that determine specializations. For example, Paladin and Ranger plus an arcane knight equivalent that does not exist in Pathfinder would probably share the same chassis. However, you might have a Champion path (for smites/challenges), a Hunter path...
I have read your house rule document, in relation to the changes you made to the classes, it reminded me of the Slayer class how it is so modular in design.
IMO modularity is the future of game design for the 3.75 system, good to see other people acknowledge it.
...Cloth cleric is thing that is needed.
How are you handling neat class only things like wildshape or spell combat.
Feats? Class options?
Leaning primarily towards class options. If you've seen my psychic monk from way back when, you'll notice I'm very, very fond of optional class features (you'll notice that the vast majority of the monk features got reshuffled into optional talents).
We're theorycrafting some standards for class design at the moment and weighing their pros and cons, but we do know that however it comes out the need for things like archetypes will be greatly diminished if there is one at all.
At the moment we're letting classes cook on the back burner while we're working on the main course (the core), but here's some of the ideas that we've already got cooked up.
A Core Mechanic: I mentioned earlier that classes that share a vastly different mechanic from one-another are worth being their own classes, while classes that share a similar mechanic can be merged together. Here's two examples of what I mean.
A mechanic that defines a class is likely to be something like Grit, or Rage, or Spells. A sort of resource-driven thing that other class features will often tie-into. I remarked to my brother that I will of course rebuild my gunslinger for the new core, but it won't be a gunslinger. Instead it will be a daring warrior that uses a resource (grit) to do awesome things. Guns will be an option, but you could just as easily have a set of talents and features that are aimed at melee weaponry, or inspiring others, or tanking, or doing other cool things.
Meanwhile, we will probably include optional paths or major class choices that determine specializations. For example, Paladin and Ranger plus an arcane knight equivalent that does not exist in Pathfinder would probably share the same chassis. However, you might have a Champion path (for
To be fair, Paizo has noticed this as well. If you haven't noticed, most of the new stuff Paizo develops has become increasingly modular in nature. It's one of the reasons I like the upcoming Kineticist so much: outside the flavor of being a guy who channels elmental power, the flavor of the class is entirely upto my own making.
I can use the Kineticist to make Power Rangers, or Captain Planet Planeteers, or Avatar Benders or Natsu from Fairy Tail, even Jedi/Sith to a certain extent. It's an incredibly open class with tons of fun built into it.
I wonder if that's what Paizo meant by "our answer to psionics". Aratrok and I have been trying to figure that out. Maybe they meant "these classes will be easily refluffable like psionics"?
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I just did a good deed by giving some money to a guy to help him replace the money he'd accidentally dropped and was picked up by someone else. He'd been crying because without the money he'd be stranded at the airport, so I withdrew some money from my checking account to help him, and his relief was palpable. He even hugged me! I know this was the right thing to do. So why do I find myself feeling guilty about it and trying to convince myself of that? In an RPG I'd do that sort of thing in a heartbeat. Why does it feel like I wasted money instead?
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I wonder if that's what Paizo meant by "our answer to psionics". Aratrok and I have been trying to figure that out. Maybe they meant "these classes will be easily refluffable like psionics"?
My understanding is Paizo doesn't like the power point system because it's a different casting system than all other magic. In addition, they also think that newer players tend to blow all of their PP and nova with the system, which they don't see happen as often with vancian casting.
I'm also betting they had some bad run-ins with the abusive players from the previous edition that abused aspects of the psionics frequently.
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I just did a good deed by giving some money to a guy to help him replace the money he'd accidentally dropped and was picked up by someone else. He'd been crying because without the money he'd be stranded at the airport, so I withdrew some money from my checking account to help him, and his relief was palpable. He even hugged me! I know this was the right thing to do. So why do I find myself feeling guilty about it and trying to convince myself of that? In an RPG I'd do that sort of thing in a heartbeat. Why does it feel like I wasted money instead?
I would estimate that it's several factors, including (but not necessarily limited to) the fact that our money is often hard earned and we're (probably rightfully) conditioned to not waste it or throw it away frivolously. So that probably feels weird having given a man money with nothing physical to show for it.
In an RPG, you don't value money in the same way because it doesn't affect your life in the same way. However, while the sacrifice is more meaningful in reality, so too is the good that it does. In RPGs, giving out some dosh means you get a few more good-points and go on about your day and it means nothing once you turn off the machine or step away from the table. In reality, the money you have was a real sacrifice because it means you no longer have something, but the impact that you have was in turn all the more real in that you just helped that guy get back home.
There can be conflicting emotions, especially depending on how much you value money. In the end, I'm pretty proud of you that you helped him out. My mom once had some conflicted feelings in my stead when I was working one of my first jobs. I've never valued money that much beyond having enough to function, so when I overheard a coworker of mine talking on her phone during her lunch break with her husband about their money issues and concerns about the holidays coming up, I decided I could do something about that.
Where I worked handled money and cashed checks for people, so when I went to pick up my check, I asked the receptionist at the desk to do me an odd favor. I asked her to cash my check for the week, put the money in an envelope with my co-worker's name on it, and tell her that someone left it there for her. The look on the receptionist's face was pretty interesting. XD
(Though not a relevant part of the story, the receptionist came up to me a while later and remarked that she had never seen anyone do anything like that in all the years she worked there. Apparently my coworker started crying tears of happiness out of relief and amazement since this was like an extra week of pay for her out of nowhere. I'll admit that felt pretty nice to know that it would definitely help her out when she needed it.)
When my mother learned what happened she was concerned for me that I just dropped a few hundred dollars on someone anonymously, mostly because she didn't want me to put myself out or anything. Motherly concerns. However my Grandma told me later that even though my mother was concerned, she was indeed proud of what I had done, and my mother did things like that too.
So I guess what I'm saying is, it's natural to feel a sense of buyer's remorse (even though you haven't actually bought anything) but if it makes any difference I'm proud of you for making a difference.
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I wonder if that's what Paizo meant by "our answer to psionics". Aratrok and I have been trying to figure that out. Maybe they meant "these classes will be easily refluffable like psionics"?My understanding is Paizo doesn't like the power point system because it's a different casting system than all other magic. In addition, they also think that newer players tend to blow all of their PP and nova with the system, which they don't see happen as often with vancian casting.
I'm also betting they had some bad run-ins with the abusive players from the previous edition that abused aspects of the psionics frequently.
All that insanity aside (they say psionics is OP and publish Spellbane :P), I meant we were confused because of that. We'd heard that Paizo intended it to be their answer to psionics but all it seemed like was more vancian stuff because we knew they weren't touching the mechanics (which also seems weird because the vast majority of psionics fans that I've seen wouldn't be half the fans if not for the amazing mechanics). So, maybe they meant as something more fluffable, y'know?
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I wonder if that's what Paizo meant by "our answer to psionics". Aratrok and I have been trying to figure that out. Maybe they meant "these classes will be easily refluffable like psionics"?My understanding is Paizo doesn't like the power point system because it's a different casting system than all other magic. In addition, they also think that newer players tend to blow all of their PP and nova with the system, which they don't see happen as often with vancian casting.
I'm also betting they had some bad run-ins with the abusive players from the previous edition that abused aspects of the psionics frequently.
All that insanity aside (they say psionics is OP and publish Spellbane :P), I meant we were confused because of that. We'd heard that Paizo intended it to be their answer to psionics but all it seemed like was more vancian stuff because we knew they weren't touching the mechanics (which also seems weird because the vast majority of psionics fans that I've seen wouldn't be half the fans if not for the amazing mechanics). So, maybe they meant as something more fluffable, y'know?
Paizo's answer to psionics has more to do with the class abilities than the casting system. I only, really, read the Kineticist and decided that there was no other class that interested me. In fact, I had to force myself to read any further than the Kineticist (which was hard as the Kineticist is the first class in the playtest).
Each of the classes can do various 'psychic' things without even casting a spell. Like, if I recall, the Mesmerist can implant hypnotic suggestions in people's minds with skill checks, or something like that.
Anyway, one of the things Paizo wanted to focus on more, was, and I roughly quote, "less Jean Grey, or Professor X and more Penny Dreadful". They wanted more it to be more Occult-ish and less "Wizard with psychic spells". There's supposed to be things in there to do with seances, possession, hauntings, bindings, pacts with otherworldly beings etc.
This is all based off my understanding and readying of various posts by different people. It might behoove you to download the playtest document and give it a read through yourself (I believe it's still available after all).
As someone who's been working on a Warlock class (though more WoWlock than 3.5 Warlock, I understand?) you might want to take a look at their plans for the Kineticist. The Kineticist is a class that has a blast they can do all day, every round without ever running out of power. They can also accept 'Burn' to create more powerful blasts or modify their blasts to do different things.
Burn is a mechanic that, damages the users body. For every point of burn you possess, you take a number of points of non-lethal damage equal to your character level. So a 10th level character with 4 points of burn has 40 points of non-lethal damage. The non-lethal damage cannot be reduced or healed in anyway, except for resting for 8 hours. So no Damage Reduction, regeneration, Wish, Miracle etc. to remove the non-lethal damage or remove the Burn.
As the Kineticist levels up, he gains more and more ways to reduce the burn his abilities cost him. For example, one of them is Gather Energy, which allows him to spend a move action to reduce Burn by 1 point on his next ability used before his next turn, but he can also spend a full-round action to reduce Burn by 1 point on his next turn, which combined with another move action allows you to reduce burn by 2 points.
And... I'm going to just stop here. I'm a big fan of what they're doing with the Kineticist, and I have a tendency to ramble on about it.
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Burn is a mechanic that, damages the users body. For every point of burn you possess, you take a number of points of non-lethal damage equal to your character level. So a 10th level character with 4 points of burn has 40 points of non-lethal damage. The non-lethal damage cannot be reduced or healed in anyway, except for resting for 8 hours. So no Damage Reduction, regeneration, Wish, Miracle etc. to remove the non-lethal damage or remove the Burn.
Wow, I really wish they didn't do that. I like the burn as a drawback but breaking the normal rules for nonlethal damage means tracking three different damage pools for two different types of damage. Now you have to track which amount on nonlethal damage is real nonlethal damage and which amount is burn nonlethal damage because they heal at different rates.
Normal nonlethal damage heals 1 HP/HD every hour.
And... I'm going to just stop here. I'm a big fan of what they're doing with the Kineticist, and I have a tendency to ramble on about it.
Feel free. Your rambling has never bothered me before and I'd dare say won't start soon.
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Burn is a mechanic that, damages the users body. For every point of burn you possess, you take a number of points of non-lethal damage equal to your character level. So a 10th level character with 4 points of burn has 40 points of non-lethal damage. The non-lethal damage cannot be reduced or healed in anyway, except for resting for 8 hours. So no Damage Reduction, regeneration, Wish, Miracle etc. to remove the non-lethal damage or remove the Burn.Wow, I really wish they didn't do that. I like the burn as a drawback but breaking the normal rules for nonlethal damage means tracking three different damage pools for two different types of damage. Now you have to track which amount on nonlethal damage is real nonlethal damage and which amount is burn nonlethal damage because they heal at different rates.
Normal nonlethal damage heals 1 HP/HD every hour.
And... I'm going to just stop here. I'm a big fan of what they're doing with the Kineticist, and I have a tendency to ramble on about it.Feel free. Your rambling has never bothered me before and I'd dare say won't start soon.
Honestly, I thought the same thing about the Burn damage, but it's, really, the only way of doing such a mechanic in this system without trivializing the drawback of Burn. I mean, with a Cure Light Wounds wand which heals both non-lethal and lethal damage in the same casting (8 hp healed equals 8 lethal and 8 non-lethal), there'd be little-to-no downside to maximizing your Burn.
This is important because, based off Mark Seifter's posts, the Kineticist will become stronger the more burn he takes. Every Kineticist gains a Kinetic Defense of some sort, that can be augmented to further strengthen it's power by accepting Burn. One thing to note, is when you accept Burn for your defense (and several other abilities), you don't "lose" the benefit of the burn.
For example, the Telekineticist can form a Telekinetic Barrier around himself that is a buffer of HP. Using it grants him a buffer of HP equal to his Kineticist level for 0 Burn. Every point of Burn spend augmenting it adds half the Kineticist's level in HP to the strength of the shield. The Shield regenerates HP over time and the more burn you spend, the faster it regenerates (but since it also increases the strength of the shield, it pretty much always takes about 10 minutes to regenerate to full).
So if a 10th level Telekineticist accepts 4 points of burn, his barrier would be capable of soaking up 30 hp worth of damage. But, once he's spent those points of burn, his Barrier remains at that level of strength until he rests and regains Burn.
But, the Kineticist has a secondary benefit from Burn as well. As the Kineticist accepts more and more Burn, his abilities become more powerful. He gains bonuses to hit and damage with his Kinetic Blast (I think it's +1 to hit and +2 to damage for every point of burn up to a maximum that scales with his level), plus other things (but I can't remember them right now).
They can also accept Burn to directly gain certain benefits, like increases to ability scores, AC and abilities related to their element (swim speed, burrow speed etc). In the playtest, this used to simply be the ability to polymorph into an elemental of your elemental type, but they decided to change it as it caused problems (for example, it forces the Kineticist to walk around as an elemental most of his career). Also, I like to think, since I complained the loudest, I caused this change :P
So, relating it all back; if a Telekineticist accepted 2 points of burn into his shield (2xlevel in non-lethal damage + 2xlevel in barrier strength = 0 loss), and then another 2 points into the Elemental Affinity (I think the new ability is called), granting him bonuses to his ability scores and different abilities, and then a further increase in accuracy and power (+1 to hit, +2 to damage per point of burn) he'd have taken 4xlevel in non-lethal damage. But if he could heal the non-lethal damage, he'd, effectively, have no drawback.
By the way, I should mention that the Kineticist's abilities are based off Constitution, and Dexterity. The more Con he has, the more Burn he can take and the more damage his abilities deal. Saving throws are split between Con based and Dex based, however.
So the more Con you have, the more HP you've got. What it comes down to, is that, roughly, the Kineticist will have very similar HP to that of most other 'warrior' style classes, despite being 3/4 BAB and d8 hit points.
Also, a new teamwork feat Mark proposed (based off my idea) would allow two kineticists to merge their blasts together into a more powerful blast.
This operates off the Expanded Element option for the Kineticist. A Kineticist can, eventually, broaden his horizon by learning to draw from multiple elements, and gains access to Composit Blasts. For example, a Pyrokineticist can learn to become a Geokinetic as well, and can then merge the elements together into a Lava Blast that deals more damage than either of the two blasts individually and does both bludgeoning and fire damage.
With the new teamwork feat, a Pyrokinetic and Geokinetic could combine their blasts into a Lava Blast.
It should be noted, that the Kineticist has some very heavy elements inspired by anime, especially, Avatar the Last Airbender. It's all but been confirmed there will be a Bloodbender-esque archetype for the Hydrokinetic. The Pyrokinetic will also be able to do things like 'Burn away magic' as in, he can inflict damage and attempt to dispel with his fire. Mark also teased about some ability of the Pyrokinetic to, possibly, treat fire immune targets as if they had resistance, and, eventually, even lower that resistance (possibly lowering it to 0). So the pyrokinetic, at least, will be able to 'burn' creatures immune to fire.
Basically, if you've ever seen Fairy Tail (focusing on Natsu, Grey, and Juvia), Kaze no Stigma, or Avatar the Last Airbender you'll be able to create characters that closely resembles characters from said shows. Also included are Jedi (Telekineticist), Andrew from the movie Chronicle, Fire Starter, Carrie, and even some elements of Dragon Ball Z (gather energy to blast enemies, and a mechanic that deals damage to your body for greater strength? Kamehameha Wave and Kaio-Ken anyone?).
Lots of cool and fun stuff in coming with the Kineticist. Oh, and if you do read it, Kinetic Blade will be getting nerfed, and, as for Kinetic Fist, my understanding is there will be some sort of Kinetic Monk archetype.
is Burn their version of a wilder's surge?
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is Burn their version of a wilder's surge?
No, Burn doesn't increase caster level or anything like that, but it would probably be the closest similar mechanic.
As Kineticists go up in level, they will gain the ability to add metamagic feats to their kinetic blasts. Empower costs 1 point of burn, Maximize costs 2 points of burn, Quicken costs 3 points of burn. There may be more possible metamagic feats in the full release, but those were the only ones in the playtest.
They also gain the ability to automatically reduce the burn cost of their powers, something like 1 point every 6 levels, but this only applies to the Wild Talents of the Kineticists. The Kineticists, essentially, has 3 different types of Wild Talents, but split into 2 categories, Infusions and 'Other'. There are form infusions, which change the way the blast is delivered, or substance infusions, which alter or adds an effect to the blast.
For example, there is a form infusion called Cyclone which allows you to form a cyclone of wind that deals half your blast damage to all creatures within 20 ft. radius of you. This costs 3 burn to activate. Then there a substance infusion called Pressurized Blast that allows you to make a bull rush attempt against anyone damaged by your kinetic blast with a maximum knockback distance of 5 ft. for the cost of 1 burn.
You can combine a form infusion with a substance infusion but you can't combine a form with a form or a substance with a substance.
So you could combine Cyclone with Pressurized Blast to create a 40 ft. diameter funnel of wind that also knocks enemies backwards while dealing damage. Where have we seen that before?
Granted, doing so causes you to take 4 points of burn, but if you were approximately a 12th level Kineticist and used Gather Energy, you'd be able to do it, essentially, for free if you use Gather Eenrgy on the previous round for 1 point of burn, Gather Energy on the round you cast, and your Infusion Specialization to reduce the total cost by 4. Or you could reduce the cost by 3 and accept 1 point of burn if you need to do it now.
There are also many infusions that cost 0 burn because they are intended to be used all the time. For example, one of the "other" types of infusions is Flame Jet; this lets you shoot flames behind you to propel yourself 60 ft. in a straight line. If you end your turn in the air, on your next turn, you begin falling unless you use Flame Jet again... it works something like this.
Oh, there's also Greater Flame Jet that lets you straight up fly using your flame jets.
Then there's the Ride the Blast ability which lets you turn into your energy time and travel along the path of your blast, arriving at the target location or somewhere in the area if it's an AoE. For the low, low cost of 0 burn, mind you. So you could, theoretically, use an AoE effect, like Explosion (AoE effect similar to Fireball), to blast a group of enemies and also travel along the path and arrive at the target destination. It would look very similar to teleporting to an area and causing an explosion with your arrival.
So, again, while I would say Wild Surge is probably the thing most similar to the Burn mechanic (in that you can hurt yourself using it), it's also very, very different from it.
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The Kineticist has some cool ideas, but the play-test version was... sub-par. Its damage output was painfully weak, and a lot of the infusions effectively require you to reduce your constitution modifier for the purposes of how many hitpoints you have by large numbers for very meager benefits. A 10th level Kineticist giving up 30 hitpoints for the rest of the day to quicken a single shot or do negligable PBAoE damage is probably never going to happen- it's super costly for very little benefit, and utility options or things useful outside of a fight are far and few between.
The best you could do in the playtest was use Kinetic Form and pumped Defense to cap out Feel the Burn, then only fire off things you could use for free. Which kinda kills the point of the Burn mechanic.
Also your options are pick touch attacks and get ruined by energy resistance, or pick not-touch-attacks and feel the slow degradation of your ability to hit things with your attacks. Which is... not a pleasant decision to be forced to make.
Hopefully it gets buffed and they do some revisions on how burn works. It could be cool.
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The Kineticist has some cool ideas, but the play-test version was... sub-par. Its damage output was painfully weak, and a lot of the infusions effectively require you to reduce your constitution modifier for the purposes of how many hitpoints you have by large numbers for very meager benefits. A 10th level Kineticist giving up 30 hitpoints for the rest of the day to quicken a single shot or do negligable PBAoE damage is probably never going to happen- it's super costly for very little benefit, and utility options or things useful outside of a fight are far and few between.
The best you could do in the playtest was use Kinetic Form and pumped Defense to cap out Feel the Burn, then only fire off things you could use for free. Which kinda kills the point of the Burn mechanic.
Also your options are pick touch attacks and get ruined by energy resistance, or pick not-touch-attacks and feel the slow degradation of your ability to hit things with your attacks. Which is... not a pleasant decision to be forced to make.
Hopefully it gets buffed and they do some revisions on how burn works. It could be cool.
I don't know if you've followed along with the playtest thread after it ended, but Mark has teased a lot of stuff about the Kineticist. One of the things he did was intentionally released a weaker version of the Kineticist to see if anyone could come up with some gamebreaking combos, while the one at full release will be more powerful. So the blasts, apparently, will deal more damage, Feel the Burn will have a better scaling, Kinetic Form will be a little different (more equally applied to all elements) etc.
Many new abilities have been teased, and Infusion Specialization was changed to apply to all infusions, not just form or substance.
Now, granted, a lot of this is all going off the Mark's word, so we'll see how things actually turn out. But one thing Mark brings to the design team is a lot of number crunching. The best method of attacking with the Kineticist was using Kinetic Blade (which gave full blast damage on every melee attack) and pumping your attack bonus as high as possible. The next best, was using Vital Strike since the all of the blast damage counted as the weapons base damage. Both options will be changed (Kinetic Blade scaled down and Vital Strike will be incompatible with the Kinetic Blast).
I see the Kineticist, almost, as a skirmishing, utility warrior/caster hybrid. With relatively easy access to flight and mobility options, he'll be able to move in and out of combat with ease, while blasting people with his all-day-infinite blasts. Kinetic Blade will give him easy access to a melee weapon that consumes no resources.
One of the major things about the Kineticist is that he has an abundance of wealth to toss around as he doesn't need to buy magical weapons to maintain his role as a switch hitter. His ranged and melee options come built it.
Anyway, as for touch vs normal AC, it's been teased that the pyrokineticist, at least, will be able to bypass resistance/immunity with the right abilities. Hopefully, all of the energy based attacks will have the same ability open to them.
It is Thursday and no one has posted anything for 2 days... This is one of the only forums I have followed since it started and I am like 16 pages invested... So... Somebody Ask Ashiel something...
Ummm... Outside of the Detect spells what is the best way to determine an NPCs alignment?
What's your favorite Golarion god? Why?
Have you ever played a dwarf?
Do you or your players ever harbor racists opinions about any of the PF races (my party ALWAYS hates Gnomes, and one time I played a Half-elf and as I RP'ed I kept making these REALLY xenophobic comments about humans, like completely unintentional but I found myself repulsed by humans- never found out why...)
Change the game forever!!! You have to pick one: What one class should be included in EVERY party? (I assume you will pick Psion, but idk... maybe you are full of surprises)
Change the game forever!!! You have to pick one: What one (core- because saying Gillmen doesn't really have an impact, Gripplis??? Grip WHO?!?!) race should be eliminated from the game completely?
...my party ALWAYS hates Gnomes...
You know, my party is the same way, and I've never really figured out why. I've always wanted to make, like, a really powerful Gnome character that was powerful because she's a Gnome (like you can with Halflings), but the only thing that seems to lend well to Gnomish power is being a pure caster and that's taking the easy route :(
Gnome first world summoner...
Hmmm... Powerful Gnome that is NOT just a caster-master... Ummm... idk man, tall order. Sabooteur, Experimental Gunsmith and Prankster are the racial archetypes...
The only other thing I can think of is the Speak with Animals power they have... like... they just get some SERIOUSLY P.O.'ed badger moles to take out the Fire Nation... or something...
In that same vein my party are pretty amicable to Svirfneblin... wtf?
Hmmm... Powerful Gnome that is NOT just a caster-master... Ummm... idk man, tall order. Sabooteur, Experimental Gunsmith and Prankster are the racial archetypes...
The only other thing I can think of is the Speak with Animals power they have... like... they just get some SERIOUSLY P.O.'ed badger moles to take out the Fire Nation... or something...
In that same vein my party are pretty amicable to Svirfneblin... wtf?
Yeah, it's difficult. The issue is that it's pretty easy to use nearly any race and make a strong caster, because caster's themselves are strong. The stat boosts of the Gnome, +Con and +Cha, makes it a little difficult to make most of the 6th level casters because, while Con is nice, it's a lot more important to boost Strength or Dex instead of Con because the point buy gets more expensive the higher you go. It's easier to get a 16 or 17 in Str/Dex with a 12 in Con using a +2 Str/Dex than it is with a +2 to Con.
The problem I see, is that, basically, the only good way to build a Gnome is to use magic in some way, and that irks me.
The Halfling, meanwhile, can make for a good Rogue, Bard, Paladin, Cavalier, Swashbuckler, Archer etc. and not just because of his stat spread, but also because of his feat support. The Risky Striker feat is of particular worth as it's borderline OP for a feat. -1 penalty to AC for a scaling bonus to damage that stacks with Power Attack. Granted it's only against targets 2 or more size categories larger than you, but you will find yourself using this feat more often than naught after a certain point.