Just a quick thought. In my setting that I'm putting together most everyone would be illiterate. Obviously wizards and alchemists need to be able to read. Druids would probably also be literate in their secret language. If I take it away from all other classes though how would I best balance things?
Maybe give everyone else extra skill points to put points into linguistics if they choose to? But how many? It's assumed that everyone is literate in all of their starting languages. The linguistics skill also gives you both the written and spoken language per point invested. Anybody have any thoughts on this?
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Martials already feel illiterate because they have no way to interact with magical stuff. Every game I ran or played ran into the situation where the party would encounter something magical, and the party's mages examine it and have long winded discussions while the martials sit at the side and twiddle their thumbs.
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I don't think you need to give them anything. Just tell everyone they need to invest a skill point in Linguistics if they want to be literate. Let the wizardy types know that if they don't spend this point to become literate, they can't study their spellbooks.
Not a bad idea. Personally I run 25-point buy games and encourage my players to not max/min. That lets them do things like have a fighter who picks up Diplomacy, for instance. I don't let them do dump-stats, and they know I'll raise an issue if I start seeing them spend half their points on their key ability. I give them points for filling out a character, not breaking the game.
You might consider something similar; give them a couple more points to play with and they can choose if they want to invest in Int and pick up Linguistics (and/or other skills) or just boost abilities to aid other aspects of their character.
If you make them illiterate then give them a point to put into Linguistics to allow them to be literate... then what is the point of making them illiterate?
If you make them illiterate then give them a point to put into Linguistics to allow them to be literate... then what is the point of making them illiterate?
Not sure if you're replying to me or the OP. If me, well, that's not what I do, at least not directly.
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You could have understanding the spoken and written completely separate. One language slot each. Alternately, you could just have literacy as a feat.
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I might allow illiteracy as a free option:
Benefit: You cannot set off magic traps triggered by reading. i.e. explosive runes.
Penalty: You cannot read or write.
If you make them illiterate then give them a point to put into Linguistics to allow them to be literate... then what is the point of making them illiterate?
Well, the OP's avatar is a goblin and we know how they feel about books… ;]
Anyway, I read it as the extra skill point being allowed anywhere, but you'd have to put it there if you wanted to read and write. Some characters wouldn't, because of the flavor specific to the setting, I assume. Some people already play up their Barbarian/Fighter's illiteracy even without it being a rule. Literacy rates here on Earth (before 1900 or so) were downright abysmal, and in some parts of the world, it still is. Consider this example: A farmer has an extra point they can put in Knowledge: Nature or Survival, but their kid has the option of picking up Linguistics instead of focusing on their chores. Bam, story-telling 101.
They could always put the point into reading/carving runes instead.
A chunk of wood or a rock could be carved to work like a scroll. One spell only. If it's pre-money you can put a GP value on man hours spent crafting it.
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In my campaign, illiteracy is the norm. Commoners are always illiterate unless they have enough wealth to afford schooling or if they have a profession that requires it (such as clergy, doctoring, lawyer, etc).
However, s PCs are usually considered a cut above in RPGs, by default they are always literate and have something in their background that explains their schooling. As an option, I also offered a generic trait called Illiteracy. By taking that trait, you could not read letters and numbers, but you would gain two additional traits (in other words, they start with 3 traits and are illiterate instead of two traits and literacy). I had one player, the barbarian, take the offer).
It is interesting what illiteracy does for a campaign. First, players must talk to NPCs a lot more since written information is less common. Also, since educated people are usually the only ones that read, it means that the PCs may have access to a higher class of people more often.
You do need to change your outlook a bit and shape your world for the illiterate masses such as having pictures on signs instead of words and people have a strong oral tradition.
Personally, I do not regret the choice.
Cuuniyevo pretty well summed up my line of thought. Better then I could have actually. :p The extra points could be but wouldn't have to be spent to buy literacy. I do kind of like RedDogMT's idea of making it a trait option (I'm also working on creating and compiling a list of traits that emphases character's backstories). The question then becomes how do PCs become literate after play begins? With Feats? I don't really like them having to spend whole feats to be able to pick up reading. That's why I was thinking the skill point route originally.
Part of what inspired me was looking at the importance of bards in the real world. They weren't just cheerleaders and entertainers but a mix of oral historians, lore keepers and news reporters in preliterate societies. While I do appreciate that the PCs are supposed to be exceptional I don't really feel that it's fitting for all of them to necessarily be literate.
Illiteracy is the default in the language system I use, but the system as a whole is more complicated (and more rewarding) than the usual language system. Each language has multiple levels of competency (but a single point in linguistics gives you multiple Language Points, which partially compensates). Picking up literacy is extra. The languages are based on region, rather than race.
The end result is that only about half of my PCs are literate, and language becomes a much more interesting aspect of the game. It helps give each kingdom a real identity, and makes overcoming language barriers an interesting challenge for the party.
There are lots of ways to implement illiteracy successfully, but I think as long as you're consistent, it should be fine. Language is far enough removed from the combat mechanics that balancing it really isn't much of an issue. Simply requiring any character who wants literacy to spend a skill point is probably sufficient, though I'd recommend streamlining it by allowing that one point to grant literacy in all languages you know. Otherwise the skill cost can become quite significant very quickly.
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You could have understanding the spoken and written completely separate. One language slot each.
Star Wars d20 did this and it worked fine.
If you're going to make characters illiterate by default I think this is more fun than just a binary "literate or not." For example, you can have druids who only can read druidic runes. If you don't mind a little extra complexity you can have some languages that share alphabets such that one alphabet lets you read several languages that you speak. For example, Gnome may use the Sylvan alphabet and so a character who speaks Sylvan and Gnome can spend one point to learn the Sylvan alphabet and read in both languages.
So if they choose illiteracy they get one skill point per language spoken to spend elsewhere. To regain literacy they have to give back that many points, and be taught by a teacher.
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Why one bonus skill point per language spoken? The OP just wants to make sure that classes with spellbooks are still able to use those spellbooks without penalizing less literate classes, not that characters be literate in every language they speak. And if you want it to be harder to learn to read and write multiple languages, why require the character to spend the points necessary to be literate in every language they speak rather than allow them to just learn languages that frequently appear in written form (eg Common and Elven, but not Goblin)?
Note: I agree with RumpinRufus that it's just fine to require spellbook-using classes to spend a point (or language slot) on literacy rather than getting it free. All spellbook-using classes are intelligence based so it's not much of a hardship. However, it is a pain for clerics and oracles if Read Magic requires mundane literacy, since those classes would then need to spend a much less abundant skill point in order to use scrolls.
@ WithoutHisFoot That sounds awesome. I like the idea of having varying levels of competence. This sounds like what I'm going for. I really want to play up different cultures and such in this setting.
@ LazarX The reason why is because I'm trying to create a world and setting specific atmosphere. Literacy is a major aspect of culture. It's fine to gloss over it in a generic setting but I'm trying to create a specific world.
@ Weirdo I like the idea of the spoken and written parts of a language being purchased separately. It would be the easiest way of dealing with things and covers a lot of fun options. Like ancient languages where nobody remembers how it's spoken and only the written remains. On the other end there would also be languages that have no written form.
I think maybe I'll give players a pool of points (+ Int modifier) to buy spoken or written forms of languages separately. Then buying up the linguistics skill will give them two additional language slots per point spent.
@ WithoutHisFoot That sounds awesome. I like the idea of having varying levels of competence. This sounds like what I'm going for. I really want to play up different cultures and such in this setting.
@ LazarX The reason why is because I'm trying to create a world and setting specific atmosphere. Literacy is a major aspect of culture. It's fine to gloss over it in a generic setting but I'm trying to create a specific world.
@ Weirdo I like the idea of the spoken and written parts of a language being purchased separately. It would be the easiest way of dealing with things and covers a lot of fun options. Like ancient languages where nobody remembers how it's spoken and only the written remains. On the other end there would also be languages that have no written form.
I think maybe I'll give players a pool of points (+ Int modifier) to buy spoken or written forms of languages separately. Then buying up the linguistics skill will give them two additional language slots per point spent.
Standard character creation gives characters 2 languages spoken, written, and read. Thats 4 points. Then you might give double the points of Int. bonus. Wizards get the ability to read and cast their own spells free. Druids get the druidic language free too.
Would that work? I'm trying to figure out the rules crunch.
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Goth Guru, that's correct if you want characters to be able to speak and write the same number of languages as without the houserule.
If the point is to reduce literacy, you will want fewer points available. I'd suggest making the racial and class bonus languages start as spoken only, then give them 1+2xInt points for other spoken and written languages (this includes the usual number of bonus languages). That means a few less languages than usual if you want to be literate in all of them, but still gives all characters at least one language point that can be used on literacy (or not). That means druids with 10 int can learn druidic runes, and clerics with 10 int can have basic literacy without spending one of two 1st level skill points.
If some languages share alphabets, award fewer points.
I was trying to define the points in the pool. In an illiterate world, most characters would use the points for spoken language only. Indeed, someone could read hieroglyphics without knowing how to speak or understand ancient Egyptian.
It's GM's choice whether those points could be used for unrelated skills.
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I was trying to define the points in the pool. In an illiterate world, most characters would use the points for spoken language only. Indeed, someone could read hieroglyphics without knowing how to speak or understand ancient Egyptian.
It's GM's choice whether those points could be used for unrelated skills.
It's a good way of extending the use of the skill if you use it like that. If you're the party's "Face", then being good at speaking the language is far above in importance than reading/writing the language.
Meanwhile if you're the party's Textbook/Scholar, reading certain languages comes up far more frequently in importance as you have to translate Azlanti, Thassilonian, or Ancient Osiriani.
Plus, the role-playing aspect of "My character can speak 14 languages, but can't read" is just plain damn awesome sounding for a slightly grittier world.