Intimidate against PCs

[blahpers]

Short question for GMs: do your NPCs/monsters use Intimidate against PCs and, if so, in what capacity?

[Paladin of Baha-who?]

I've used demoralize, usually in the form of Dazzling Display or abilities that let you hit+demoralize in a single action. Not the other useage of intimidate, which is under the same category as using Diplomacy on PCs IMO.

[Jamie Charlan]

Actually given what intimidation rolls ARE, it might be best to apply a ... 'growth factor' instead. Barring some very specific effects one should generally not remove player agency: The moment things become a cinematic, you've stopped running a game and started telling them your story.

If the intimidation succeeds its roll, you give an updated description/analysis of the character doing so. Make something already existing about that character sound a little more menacing. Sure it may not be a mechanical change, but it can be far more valuable as the right words/descriptions can cause people to completely change their tactics or planned actions.

"Upon closer inspection those muscles look quite a bit more solid than you thought"

"You think you might have caught a strange crackling sound just now, maybe some spell effect's aura-masking is starting to come undone from activating it"

"That's a pretty bright-looking fireball coming your way, oh uh, gimme a reflex save."

"That blade's dripping with something. As it swings close you feel a bit of burning on your skin, maybe from those droplets. Those damn things that impaled bill outright, did either of you ever keep a vial of that stuff?"

Give it to them as a "clue". Changing their behavior; that's the entire point of that roll ain't it?

[Malag]

I tend to use Diplomacy/Intimidate similar to Bluff on NPCs but it has to be formulated so it means exactly like diplomatic or intimidating suggestion usually. Although the PCs can do whatever they wish, they still have to roll high enough Sense Motive above his Diplomacy/Intimidate check to reveal NPC's reasons why he is saying what he is saying. It's a private houserule though.

Adam

[Ms. Pleiades]

For demoralizing, yes.

For "making them friendly", no.

That said, shaken effects skill checks, so doing it in a conversation can have the effect of making PCs friendlier by preventing them from making higher diplomacy DCs, which means that have to accept your offers at lower payment generally.

[deusvult]

The question of intimidate (and diplomacy) being used on PCs has always entertained me.

Pathfinder either treats NPCs and PCs the same, ruleswise, or it does not.

If it does, players have to go along with their PCs being made 'friendly" by NPCs.

If it does not, then players don't get to complain when NPCs are given special treatment to which they are not also entitled.

[Owly]

For demoralizing, sure. Every urban setting (or rural town) may have a thug or two, or even a member of the upper-class who doesn't want to be bothered. A quick Intimidation check to "send a message" and I award the player with a "Shaken" Condition Card.

In-fact, lots of demoralizing going around in Crimson Throne. It's kind of like our modern world, in that a person's PRESENCE and AUTHORITY is projected more often than you think, even innocuous social settings.

Imagine PCs trying to get aboard a ship, and the harbor master putting up his hand and saying "This is my harbor, not yours. Do I need to call the city watch?" It's not a combat situation, but it's about someone swinging their weight around.

[Cuuniyevo]

Roleplayers are generally a pretty imaginative bunch. They also tend to be attached to their characters. Instead of actually rolling a d20 for Intimidate against a PC during dialogue, you should make thinly veiled threats and imply with your own tone of voice and demeanor that the NPC is getting impatient with them. Repeating a question verbatim from the NPC in a more aggressive tone is especially effective. They'll fill in the blanks on their own. In a group-setting, many players feel as though they can take on the world, but if you get one off by themselves, they can easily be reminded of their frailty, without ever rolling a die and the other players listening in will (in my experience) be unable to keep themselves from describing OOC how the hapless PC is about to be torn to shreds.

Sense Motive and Appraise are generally the only social rolls I'll have an NPC use against a PC, and even then, only if the PC tries to use Intimidate, Diplomacy or Bluff.

[Blakmane]

deusvult wrote:

The question of intimidate (and diplomacy) being used on PCs has always entertained me.

Pathfinder either treats NPCs and PCs the same, ruleswise, or it does not.

If it does, players have to go along with their PCs being made 'friendly" by NPCs.

If it does not, then players don't get to complain when NPCs are given special treatment to which they are not also entitled.

No version of DnD has ever treated NPCs and PCs identically.

You explicitly cannot use diplomacy against a PC. See relevant rules and emphasis:

"You can change the initial attitudes of nonplayer characters with a successful check. The DC of this check depends on the creature’s starting attitude toward you, adjusted by its Charisma modifier."

However, your argument is a false dichotomy. A third option is that PCs are entitled to special treatment above NPCs, which includes being immune to diplomacy and a whole raft of other benefits (Full WBL and an XP track, for example). Although there are notable exceptions (monster feats in PFS), this is actually what pathfinder generally assumes. If you have a special snowflake DMPC getting special treatment, your PCs are perfectly justified in complaining as you have actually broken the implied social contract (that the PCs are the main characters and heroes of the story).