Ghoul Touch

[DrakeRoberts]

This spell has me confused and I've seen a rather large variety of interpretations as to how this spell works, so I'm turning to those who frequent the Rules Forum for help.

1) The first question is whether or not the paralysis given by the melee touch allows a save, or if the save from the save line refers to the save against sickened?

2) The next question is how the sickened works? Are creatures sickened for the duration of the spell, or just while in the 10'-radius spread? Is the stench effect only applied when the main target first becomes paralyzed, whenever anyone enters that area, or whenever they end their turn in that area, or what?

3) How is the location of the 10'-radius spread determined? As I understand it, a corner must be chosen to measure distances from. Does the caster choose the corner, or is it perhaps the paralyzed victim?

[SlimGauge]

Ghoul Touch linkified for your convenience.

1) Both. The spell has "Saving Throw Fortitude negates" (not partial). The general rules on saving throws state "Negates: The spell has no effect on a subject that makes a successful saving throw." So if the target of the spell makes his fort save, there is no effect. If he fails it, then he stenches and everyone ELSE (except the caster) within 10 feet now has to make a fort save.

2) Hard to determine. The general magic rules say "Subjects, Effects, and Areas: If the spell affects creatures directly, the result travels with the subjects for the spell's duration. If the spell creates an effect, the effect lasts for the duration. The effect might move or remain still. Such an effect can be destroyed prior to when its duration ends. If the spell affects an area, then the spell stays with that area for its duration. "

I tend to think that as long as the creature remains under the effects of the spell, he stenches. Any creature sickened is sickened for the remaining duration of the spell (so a creature sickened on the last round of the spells duration doesn't reset the clock).

3) The effect is called out as a spread. The spread rules say "Spread: Some effects, notably clouds and fogs, spread out from a point of origin, which must be a grid intersection. The effect can extend around corners and into areas that you can't see. Figure distance by actual distance traveled, taking into account turns the spell effect takes. When determining distance for spread effects, count around walls, not through them. As with movement, do not trace diagonals across corners. You must designate the point of origin for such an effect, but you need not have line of effect (see below) to all portions of the effect."

I'd say the caster determines, since I don't see how the paralyzed initial target would. As a HOUSE RULE, in cases like this we often use the center of the stencher's square rather than a corner.

[Imbicatus]

1: A save is made when you hit with the touch attack, if successful it negates the paralysis and ends the spell.

2: If the target fails the initial save, they exude a stench that sickens anyone in the 10ft spread of the target if they fail a save. This is ongoing, and will affect new targets if they enter the area. If they fail the save, they are sickened for the duration of the spell.

3: The spread is centered on the paralyzed initial target of the spell.

[Cyrus Lanthier]

How do you determine the spread from "the initial target" instead of a grid intersection? The rules for spread AoE's are made to be measured from a grid intersection and measured out along lines (rather than squares) to determine what squares are affected, so a 5' radius spread is in game terms may as well be a 10' by 10' "cube." If you allow measuring from a creature, what does a 5' radius spread look like?

All that said, if you (somehow) successfully paralyzed a colossal creature with ghoul touch, one would think that it's whole body would emanate the stench, not just the center of it (in which case other creatures couldn't be in the stench radius without also being in the colossal creature's square(s))... So really, it probably shouldn't be a spread at all but rather affect all creatures "within 10' of the target," which would solve some issues with this spell.