Hey folks, my regular gaming group does two sessions and I'm in one of them. We recently added two more players to it making it 6 players where as the second campaign only has 4 so I am moving over to that one.
The campaign is rise of the runelords, they are at level 9. The group consists of a reach cleric, a battlefield control sylvan sorc with a wolf companion(with boon companion), a fighter/rogue(going more rogue), and an archer ranger.
What, in your professional opinion does this group need for a fifth?
I trust you read the title? ;)
Skald.
I thought "Barbarian" at first, but a Skald gets all the rage fun of a barb, and he can share it with the fighter/rogue and the wolf companion and, should he feel like not casting a few rounds, the reach cleric.
Something with real damage. Barbarian or Magus. At 9th level, a Magus is pretty much peaking in usefulness.
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Bard.
Sorry, but you need a bard.
A skald may fulfill the need for a bard type character, I hadn't thought of that.
I would love a pally but, while not evil, the sorc is mischievous and the rogue does less than lawful things so I think I would get tired of being the mom.
The ranger apparently is doing great damage but more is probably better
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Skald is pretty good, though Bard'd be better, IMO, since unlike Skald they'd get to add to the archer's to-hit. Still, Skald works pretty well. Good Hope + Raging Song while someone else casts Haste or the equivalent make some good buffs in the first round. And Skald can get some good Rage Powers, plus auto-rage cycling for a Swift at level 13. Strength Surge + Spell Sunder for everybody every turn they like!
Another 6-level buff caster would also work (Inquisitor or Alchemist, for example), as would a melee beatstick (which you seem a little light on at the moment). The two could be combined pretty readily, too, so I'd likely do that. Skald actually makes a pretty good 'murder you with a giant weapon' class...
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Your party makeup is fairly balanced, with one solid divine, one solid arcane, and some mixed martial damage of both melee and ranged. This affords you the unique opportunity of being able to pick a wide variety of roles and blend well into the party without stepping on many toes or being heavily overshadowed. All of that being said, I am morally and ethically obligated to say Mystic Theurge. Barring that, you might consider a bloodrager or barbarian. I just finished GMing that campaign, and with minimal spoilers, something with heavy damage and spell sunder will do well there.
What concepts interest you in particular right now? That would certainly guide us to giving you better advice.
The sorc is an illusionist gnome as well and has that persistent illusion ability that uses his swift action which apparently he doesn't mind using up as he also has the threatening illusion so pretty much wherever the rogue is,he's flanking. They tell me damage is pretty good. I would think more is better.
As for what concept i am looking for? I enjoy versatility(usually play casters) but I also wouldn't mind to be able to smash the hell out of things, although I worry of that being boring.
I'd recommend an Exemplar Brawler.
I am listening to all ideas but want to throw out my own for critique. What about a melee druid?
I've not looked into exemplar brawler...only heard about the Mutagenic one...I'll read up on it
I'm surprised no one has mentionned a barbarian. Yeah, buffing might be useful, but the raw destructive power of an invulnerable barbarian is quite valuable.
Examplar could sorta take a good frontline/buffage role though.
The sorc is an illusionist gnome as well and has that persistent illusion ability that uses his swift action which apparently he doesn't mind using up as he also has the threatening illusion so pretty much wherever the rogue is,he's flanking. They tell me damage is pretty good. I would think more is better.
As for what concept i am looking for? I enjoy versatility(usually play casters) but I also wouldn't mind to be able to smash the hell out of things, although I worry of that being boring.
Definitely give mystic theurge a thought. By using spell like abilities for early entry, you can be casting 4th level spells from your primary class, and 3rd level spells from your secondary class at the level you're starting. Compared to most other casters, you will have unrivaled diversity and versatility of action.
I am listening to all ideas but want to throw out my own for critique. What about a melee druid?
I've not looked into exemplar brawler...only heard about the Mutagenic one...I'll read up on it
Melee druids are fun too. One of the players of my last runelords group is playing one in PFS right now. Her damage is impressive, and she is nigh unkillable. She took two levels of maneuver master monk prior to her druid levels. It delayed wild shape somewhat, but her attack rotations are rather intimidating.
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I am listening to all ideas but want to throw out my own for critique. What about a melee druid?
Melee Druid is solid. Adding yet another animal companion to the party might slow things down a bit (going from 5 to 7 things on the PCs side instead of 5 to 6), though, and Domains aren't much use to the melee build.
I've not looked into exemplar brawler...only heard about the Mutagenic one...I'll read up on it
Exemplars drop the unarmed combat element of Brawler for Bardic Performance and the ability to throw out Teamwork Feats. It's a solid build, but not actually one with a lot of options in play.
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*In his best Sterling Archer voice* "Seriously, why are we not doing summoner?"
This is definitely one of those times where I think pretty much anything will work, and I say this as a chronic character flipper. Try something you've always wanted to play, but never found the right group to play it with.
If you're dead-set on getting a suggestion, I would tend towards Skald, Inquisitor, or another 6-level caster, as that will handle role-swapping well.
This is definitely one of those times where I think pretty much anything will work, and I say this as a chronic character flipper. Try something you've always wanted to play, but never found the right group to play it with.
If you're dead-set on getting a suggestion, I would tend towards Skald, Inquisitor, or another 6-level caster, as that will handle role-swapping well.
Yeah thus is just it...the world is kinda my oyster so I am overwhelmed with the possibilities Lol
I've usually been asked to play something (casters) so this is new to me
I'm kinda like a kid in a candy store.....and I get the big candies because I miss the low level growing pains
I'm surprised no one has mentionned a barbarian...
Not surprisingly several already did.
A investigator and either a evangalist cleric or a arcanist(Brown fur or some other type)
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I'm more surprised people didn't suggest Oracle, since it has the whole "I can cast but still beat faces in" concept the OP asked for. Warpriest is also another great option for this.
I agree that a brown fur arcanist could be really helpful to this party.
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I would suggest an Investigator because as you said you miss the low level growing pains which is a huge problem of the Investigator. If you're not into the skilled type then try Brawler or Monk, the new Far Strike archetype Monk looks not great, but not bad and would be different from playing a caster.
I'm still behind the Exemplar Brawler. Do something new!
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I'd go for a frontline striker type. From experience I can tell that a party with an above-normal amount of strikers (that work well together) can be really powerful. And your party already has a lot of battlefield control; now give them something to control the battlefield for.
If you can handle the multiple statblocks I would get a Conjurer or Summoner. With a reach cleric and a control sorcerer you can be really effective just clogging the battlefield and casting Haste. It will let the rogue flank and the archer stay out of melee.
Be a god wizard. Seriously, starting at 9th level you get all the cream and none of the whey.
I May have misundestood. Is this your character we are talking about or the two new guys?
Edit: and ask the GM and the figther/rogue if remaking as a slayer would be a idea.
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A melee support ranger with sword/shield style, the bodyguard-ish feats, and the Freebooter and Skirmisher archetypes. It's like a bard, but without all that swashbuckling and performance, with decent skills and better combat potential.
He's an excellent flanking buddy, can aid allies attack rolls when he hits, and provides lots of defense with bodyguard (and possibly In Harm's Way).
A small sized cavalier mounted build. You can still go anywhere a medium creature can and be an absolute mounted terror. I like mounted cavaliers because they can deliver big damage and ride right on past the threat.
Want to be a party helper use tactician to share a TW feat and banner to provide moral bonuses. Go with a decent Cha and get all the party face skills. Take dangerously curious and stow a few wands.
If a Cavalier doesn't suit go Zen Archer and be a ranged murder machine.
There is always the Arcane Duelist. You get to fight and cast in armor like the Magus, but you get some of the qualities of the bard. And the AD gets some anti-spellcaster feats that you would find only fighters getting.
So it seems the "general overall" consensus is....anything really
When I started this thread I think I knew the party was well balanced enough and that most anything will work. I put it out to the community to see if they group "absolutely" needed something, which they really don't.
I cannot expect you all to make up my mind for me of course but if there was one glaring class/concept that kept coming up then I would have maybe leaned toward that one.
Maybe I'll make a dart board
I say halfling titan mauler barbarian going into shadow dancer.
Sneaky rage hitter with some nice abilities (take surprise strike rage power and rage cycle while spring attacking hehe) and a supercool shadow companion.
Personally, I'd stay away from any summonijg focused or animal companion builds. You've got a big group and I wouldn't want to slow combat down further with more turns. If you are quick and experienced at it, maybe it could work.
A couple others mentioned it, seemed worth reinforcing.
Investigator or Skald would do quite a bit to fill in holes. You want someone with lots of knowledge skills since you don't have a Wizard or Arcanist. The party probably has a couple of knowledge skills with little or no coverage.
I would suggest melee Skald.
Wizard or Arcanist might also be useful, but at that point I would start being concerned that you don't have enough front line to support the spell casters.
Although the Summoner does have Knowledge(All) on their class list, many don't have enough skill ranks to really use it. At that point it would depend on how much of a gap in skills there is. The Eidolon could certainly fill in the front line when needed if built for that.
Monk!
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You've got control covered by the cleric and sorcerer, skills covered by the ranger and rogue (assuming the rogue took skills), and damage covered by the ranger. The fighter/rogue going rogue will probably need a flank partner. Maybe go with a melee guy to partner up with him if the wolf or cleric isn't handling that. Plenty of options to choose from.
Skald covers melee, skill, knowledge AND backup healer. I reiterate skald.
So, suggestions are all over the board. Lemme ask the real question:
What do you really *want* to play?
Since your group appears to have all the main bases covered, and since you'll start at 9th level, you can choose whatever you want, and it will be a mature build, fully capable of doing exactly what you want from the get-go.
You can even choose a sub-optimal character, simply because you like the flavor.
Be an archaeologist bard (trading singing for rogue & trap abilities), wear a fedora and carry a whip.
Be an alchemist and turn into Mr Hyde when the circumstances demand it.
Be some oriental-influenced class (samurai, ninja, whatever) and go for the Akira Kurosawa flavor.
Be a god wizard, and go for the off-beat strange spells that nobody ever uses because they are suboptimal. But with *flavor*.
And, whatever you do, do it with a high INT so you have oodles of skills to flaunt. Skills are fun. Skills let you work outside the box. Be funky & ideosyncratic & creative.
Or not. Go out on a limb and try something you would never try under normal circumstances.
Andrew Brings up a good point. Textbook skills can be really useful. Lore Oracles, Wizards and Investigators would all excel at that.
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I would suggest an Investigator because as you said you miss the low level growing pains which is a huge problem of the Investigator.
I love Investigator with a profound love that transcends time and space...but I feel like it's very likely to overshadow a Fighter/Rogue who focuses on Rogue in a very direct fashion. Skald or most of the other choices do not.
I was going to suggest Skald, but seems that a lot of people already suggested it.
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No real melee character is already there, so Barbarian, Bloodrager, or Brawler would make sense to me.
Magda, who is a reach cleric styled as a combat-heavy frontline tank, begs to differ. At 9th level she got 3-6 melee attacks per round, typically for about 2d8+25. That's a real melee character.
Magda formally challenges Kevin99 to a melee duel at dawn.
Pack Rager Barbarian.