Asian Students suing Harvard and UNC.
My thoughts. In regards to Asian Americans getting into colleges, it's very difficult for them. In the top 50 universities, sure they have Asians, BUT many of the Asians are not American, and this so called diversity is NOT in US students, but in many from other nations. I don't have a problem with it, but the standards for a US/American Asian student getting into college is so astronomically HIGH, one could argue that it's almost like the Jim Crow days, but focused on Asians.
I appreciate that the current tide has many from India and China attending US institutions, but you don't hear much about the Asians with the Middle Eastern background and their struggles to enter universities. In fact, most people don't even realize that not all Asians fall into the East Asian Camp.
Even there, it seems very hard to get into many of the universities if you are Asian of any sort.
However, they all list Asian, and it seems that the standards for them are HIGHER than any other race to enter a university. What's even worse, are that if you look at the smallest minority, it would be Asians.
Many of the most prestigious universities think if they accept Asian students from overseas, that qualifies their racial diversity requirement. It adds to their racial diversity, but hurts the US students and doesn't really create diversity as far as Americans are concerned.
What's worse, is that I believe MANY of those from other nations don't have the same rigors that US students do. They don't have the comparative scores from High Schools, or the test scores that US students have to take. Hence, they can disregard those items in favor of other factors...
Basically it makes a system where to be an Asian American is like being treated very much like a second or third class citizen in the US as far as trying to get into schools, jobs, and other arenas of life (not to mention the very pointed, explicit, and blatant discrimination that's been against those of Southwest Asian descent in the past few years).
Asian Americans are very patriotic (yes, they are, despite everything against them) and are MUCH MORE queit than others in the face of persecution and discrimination.
That said I hope this lawsuit highlights the unfairness and inequality that has been placed against Asian Americans and that these guys win in their lawsuit.
Wow racist much.... Them foreign Asians are not as good as our Merikan Asians, they come over here and steal our university places... Because they get any easy free pass because they are rich foreigners.
Xenophobia, nationalism and jingoism...
You live in a capitalist system you get what you can afford to pay for.
Apparently, much of the higher requirements for asians to get into American universities is (or was) due to effects of the affirmative action policies to lower the requirements for black students. At least according to a study done some three years ago. The economist ran a focus issue on that.
Wow racist much.... Them foreign Asians are not as good as our Merikan Asians, they come over here and steal our university places... Because they get any easy free pass because they are rich foreigners.
Xenophobia, nationalism and jingoism...
You live in a capitalist system you get what you can afford to pay for.
It's OUR tax dollars paying for tax breaks, Federal grants, and OTHERS to THOSE universities.
Once again, I have no problem with the internationals at all, I have a problem with how the universities are using them. The universities are still paid in TAX dollars to accept Americans, that includes Asian Americans. Instead, more and more we see a wall being put up against Asian Americans (and even other minorities, I was lucky, I got into a top tier school, it was a private school, but well regarded, but if we look at African Americans...there were VERY few of them).
It's an artificial wall though...one similar to other racial items against minorities and other groups (orientation, gender, etc) that have occurred in the past. Loooong Long ago, going to Harvard, if we take a look at what was required.
The Average GPA (when I was going to universities and applying) for Harvard was a 3.5 GPA. The Average SAT Score was a 1250. So you have students that get Less than a 3.5 and less than a 1250. AT the time a perfect SAT score was an 1600. So, to get to Harvard, the scores probably were from a 3.2 to a 3.8 overall (with some perfect grades) and an SAT of between 1100 to 1450 on average).
A foreign student could probably get in by stating they had requisite classes, and a government note. No GPA, not SATs, but a government note giving them permission and perhaps something stating they were in the top 10% of their class.
An American student of European background could probably get in with a 3.5 and a 1250 GPA, along with having done several extracurricular activities.
An Asian American, in comparison, if you look at it now...HAD to have a 4.0 GPA, and a 1600 SAT...if you look at what the report is basically stating.
It doesn't matter that if they came from another nation, even an Asian one where the student had an equivalent of what we'd call a 3.0 and never took the SAT could get in. (and wasn't allowed to go to their own nations university, but are allowed to go another nations if they are admitted...which DOES happen in US universities quite a bit...)
It doesn't matter that every other student could get in with a 3.5 GPA and a 1250 SAT.
Because they are ASIAN AMERICAN they have to have a perfect score...and multiple extracurricular activities. And if you don't, despite no one else having to meet those exacting and extreme requirements...you don't get in. Everyone else does, but BECAUSE of your race, you don't.
In most other places, that's called racism, and that's what the lawsuit is basically about...calling racism exactly what it is...racism.
And it's even worse when you see UNC's admission requirements.
SAT test score in each area of Reading and Math are 700 (ranging from a 1200 on the lower end to a 1400 combine on the upper end) or less (the Asian American got 800s, meaning a combined score of 1600).
ONLY 78% were in the top 10% of their class (normally means around a 3.5 to 3.9 GPA unless you are talking about the top 5%)
With comparisons...though not an exact match, perhaps somewhat close to see what their actual standards are....
In fact when we look at the first year transfers this is shown
First year transfers
Average college GPA: 3.70
25th-75th percentiles
—SAT (Critical Reading + Math) 1180-1360
—ACT 27-31
That's from their site.
This guy had a GPA: 4.0
Top 1% of his class and top percentile from what I gather
-SAT areas 1600
Did not list an ACT score.
Do you see a problem?
Of course the interesting thing about UNC is when you look at them...they state they have 15% Asians on their campus, and only 4% who are not US citizens.
Still, looking at his scores, and what they allow....things that make you go...hmmmmm.
I hope they win.
Apparently, much of the higher requirements for asians to get into American universities is (or was) due to effects of the affirmative action policies to lower the requirements for black students. At least according to a study done some three years ago. The economist ran a focus issue on that.
That's a fascinating idea. How did they say it worked?
Why does it affect Asians (who are also a minority) in reaction to the requirements for African Americans?
Curious.
|
Wow racist much.... Them foreign Asians are not as good as our Merikan Asians, they come over here and steal our university places... Because they get any easy free pass because they are rich foreigners.
Xenophobia, nationalism and jingoism...
You live in a capitalist system you get what you can afford to pay for.
Must by why them yanks are muvin tu ostralia. All that free schooling.
Wow racist much.... Them foreign Asians are not as good as our Merikan Asians, they come over here and steal our university places... Because they get any easy free pass because they are rich foreigners.
Xenophobia, nationalism and jingoism...
You live in a capitalist system you get what you can afford to pay for.
It's OUR tax dollars paying for tax breaks, Federal grants, and OTHERS to THOSE universities.
Once again, I have no problem with the internationals at all, I have a problem with how the universities are using them. The universities are still paid in TAX dollars to accept Americans, that includes Asian Americans. Instead, more and more we see a wall being put up against Asian Americans (and even other minorities, I was lucky, I got into a top tier school, it was a private school, but well regarded, but if we look at African Americans...there were VERY few of them).
It's an artificial wall though...one similar to other racial items against minorities and other groups (orientation, gender, etc) that have occurred in the past. Loooong Long ago, going to Harvard, if we take a look at what was required.
The Average GPA (when I was going to universities and applying) for Harvard was a 3.5 GPA. The Average SAT Score was a 1250. So you have students that get Less than a 3.5 and less than a 1250. AT the time a perfect SAT score was an 1600. So, to get to Harvard, the scores probably were from a 3.2 to a 3.8 overall (with some perfect grades) and an SAT of between 1100 to 1450 on average).
A foreign student could probably get in by stating they had requisite classes, and a government note. No GPA, not SATs, but a government note giving them permission and perhaps something stating they were in the top 10% of their class.
An American student of European background could probably get in with a 3.5 and a 1250 GPA, along with having done several extracurricular activities.
An Asian American, in comparison, if you look at it now...HAD to have a 4.0...
So, I would suggest, when you fill out a college application to leave the "race" field blank. Along with the "sex" field.
Also, anyone wanting to get into a tier one school can. There are ways to navigate the systems. The backdoor into Harvard, for example, is to apply to the online school (which has significantly lower admissions standards) and maintain a 4.0 GPA for 2 full-time semesters and then apply for transfer into the main university. This was advice given to a friend of mine by a Harvard recruiter. Worked like a charm. Similar methods can be found and employed at a number of Universities.
Also, tier 2 and tier 3 schools still provide incredible educations. University of North Texas, a tier 3 school, has more than 10 programs ranked in the top 10 nationally including polysci. I don't think ANYONE gets turned down to attend UNT.
That's pretty awesome, thanks for stating that information BigDT.
I do wonder how hard it is to maintain a 4.0 via Harvard online. I went long ago, and schools really didn't do the online thing back then.
I do know when I went to university for a degree, the competition was fierce. I joke with my wife, I wasn't as smart as I thought I was, if I had been, I'd have forgotten the tier 1 schools and went to another.
I barely had a 3.0 average.
The funny thing, is I went and took some classes at a State school later...had a straight A average. The competition was different.
Because of that lower average, it put me on a different path, instead of going to med school like I had originally hoped for, had to do other things.
I often wonder, if I had been smarter when I was younger, I could have gone to the state school instead, kept that Straight A average, and then applied. I even had time to do extracurriculars that were not needed at the state school!
However, it still sounds like a great backdoor way (though 4.0 at Harvard, at least going to live classes, is perhaps one of the hardest things to do). Cool thing to know.