Yesterday, Valeros encountered the Most High Ceoptra, which is a Rise of the Runelords deck 6 villain. There are two checks to defeat (24 and 32) and the first of her powers is:
Succeed at an Arcane or Divine 15 check or you may not play spells with the Attack trait.
Valeros is the character encountering the card, but Ezren is at the same location. Valeros fails the Arcane check but doesn't care; he takes and succeeds at the first check.
Ezren wants some action and decides to take the second check to defeat. I am very tempted to make him succeed at an Arcane 15 check before playing a spell with the Attack trait, because it feels (to me) like the right thing to do. But my feelings have nothing to do with the game and I like to play strictly by the rules. Valeros is encountering the card and I can't find any reason in the rulebook to have the character only attempting one of the multiple checks (Ezren, in this case) consider the powers of the card, unless explicitly instructed to on the card.
Is there such a rule somewhere?
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There is usually a "Before the encounter ..." portion of cards that would apply like succeeding at a Constitution or Fortitude 6 check or difficulty is increased by 3. In that case, I have the current player roll the check and it applies to both checks to defeat whether she is doing both checks or just the first. (Which is why I emphasize that we need to make the check! Like for Arron Ivy.)
In this case, I'd say it is a separate check from the "Before the encounter ..." type check. It is generalized to the use of spells, and those with the Attack trait. So if Ezren is playing a spell even to simply assist Valeros with his combat check and it has the Attack trait, Ezren needs to make the spell check. (But if he made it then followed by taking the second combat, he does not have to roll again.)
We will discuss. I believe we want the "you" there to apply to any character who attempts a check, but I need to clarify that.
So if Ezren is playing a spell even to simply assist Valeros with his combat check and it has the Attack trait, Ezren needs to make the spell check.
I don't know of any spell that can aid on a check and has the Attack trait (Incendiary Cloud and Toxic Cloud probably don't qualify because they are played before the check and shouldn't be affected by the encountered card's powers). Otherwise, my question would also certainly apply to other cards, such as the RR deck 5 Alu-Demon Sister henchman, or RR deck 5 Mistress Delvahine villain.
I don't know of any spell that can aid on a check and has the Attack trait (Incendiary Cloud and Toxic Cloud probably don't qualify because they are played before the check and shouldn't be affected by the encountered card's powers).
For the most part there aren't any. Illuminate in Skull and Shackles does, though. Not sure if any others?
Well, depending on if/how it gets reworded it might affect the cloud spells. You can play a cloud spell outside of an encounter or inside an encounter. Karzoug says "Before attempting to play a spell with the Attack trait..." Something like that prevents a cloud spell from being played during the encounter by anyone because it triggers when you would try to play the spell. Though if the cloud was played prior to the encounter and was still in effect, you could apply its dice.
There are some banes that have you make this kind of check "Before the encounter", some that have you make the check with no reference to when, and there are some (maybe just Karoug) who has you make it when you try to play the spell. I think the ones with no reference to when you make it work basically like Karzoug. Lacking a reference to a specific part of the encounter, you apply the power when it makes the most sense to do so, which would be whenever anyone wants to play a spell with the Attack trait.
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There are some banes that have you make this kind of check "Before the encounter", some that have you make the check with no reference to when, and there are some (maybe just Karoug) who has you make it when you try to play the spell. I think the ones with no reference to when you make it work basically like Karzoug. Lacking a reference to a specific part of the encounter, you apply the power when it makes the most sense to do so, which would be whenever anyone wants to play a spell with the Attack trait.
I would agree. If you allow me to rephrase: for me there are only two types:
1) If a power on a card gives a timing to when an effect should happen, and this timing is not related to a single check (e. g. "before you encounter", "before you act", "after your act", ...), it applies to the character who actually make this encounter (i.e. the character whose turn it is in case of a double check, but maybe another character in case for example Ranzak use its power to have someone else actually encounter).
2) If not, it applies the character who will attempt the check. Thus any such power should indeed read:
"when a character is about to attempt a check to defeat this card, it must succeed at... or that character may not do ... for that check (or for the rest of the encounter, or for the rest of the turn, depending).
Now this said, I'm not sure it covers all the bases in some tricky cases where the power effect is not limited to a single check or encounter but impacts for example the full rest of the turn.
Like if it's Ranzak's turn, and Ranzak asks Valeros to encounter the bane, and then Valeros asks Ezren do the first check.
I always viewed it, flavor-wise, as the monster doing some sort of attack on the first character it saw (the character initiating the encounter) which prevented that character from doing something (or made her checks more difficult or dealt her damage or whatever). Any other characters wouldn't be required to make the check as that attack had been resolved with the first character.
