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Infernal Wound (Su) The damage a bearded devil deals with its glaive inflicts persistent wounds that cause 2 points of bleed damage. Bleed caused from an infernal wound is particularly difficult to stanch—a DC 17 Heal check stops the damage, and any attempt to heal a creature suffering from an infernal wound must succeed on a DC 16 caster level check or the spell does not function. Success indicates the healing works normally and stops all bleed effects on the victim. The infernal wounds caused by a bearded devil are a supernatural ability of the devil, not of the weapon.
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You anoint a wounded creature with devil’s blood or unholy water, giving it fast healing 1. This ability cannot repair damage caused by silver weapons, good-aligned weapons, or spells or effects with the good descriptor. The target detects as an evil creature for the duration of the spell and can sense the evil of the magic, though this has no long-term effect on the target’s alignment.
Would the SR from infernal wound apply to casting infernal healing?
How does fast healing interact with it?
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So granting it an extraordinary ability counts as "any attempt to heal a creature"?
What if I cast darkvision on someone afflicted with an infernal wound, would that kick in for the SR, too?
What exactly would you be "healing" with a darkvision spell?. Let's not be facetious here.
The text can't be more clear... "Any attempt" means just exactly that.
Any attempt would be a spell that actually grants health back--not a spell that grants an extraordinary ability.
Does it come from a spell? Does it heal damage?
Then caster level check DC 16.
Infernal healing is a spell. It heals damage (methodology doesn't matter). Caster level check DC 16.
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Your method is worse for the person being healed since you'd need to make the SR check every round.Not really because the OP would argue that the one success would nullify the bleed making further checks unnecessary.
He's essentially trying to get multiple tries for the one needed success from a single spell cast.
No, I'm arguing that Fast Healing isn't the kind of healing that an Infernal Wound interacts with as it's granting an extraordinary ability instead of healing spell. At best, it would simply reduce the bleed by one damage per round as they counteract each other, but it's not the kind of healing that would stop the bleed either.
Obviously I'm in the minority on this thinking. If the spell were called Infernal Mending would this debate even come up?
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Bleed: A creature that is taking bleed damage takes the listed amount of damage at the beginning of its turn. Bleeding can be stopped by a DC 15 Heal check or through the application of any spell that cures hit point damage (even if the bleed is ability damage). Some bleed effects cause ability damage or even ability drain. Bleed effects do not stack with each other unless they deal different kinds of damage. When two or more bleed effects deal the same kind of damage, take the worse effect. In this case, ability drain is worse than ability damage.
Fast Healing (Ex) A creature with the fast healing special quality regains hit points at an exceptional rate, usually 1 or more hit points per round, as given in the creature's entry. Except where noted here, fast healing is just like natural healing. Fast healing does not restore hit points lost from starvation, thirst, or suffocation, nor does it allow a creature to regrow lost body parts. Unless otherwise stated, it does not allow lost body parts to be reattached. Fast healing continues to function (even at negative hit points) until a creature dies, at which point the effects of fast healing end immediately.
Bleed is only stopped by a heal check or a spell that provides healing. Infernal Healing doesn't heal, it grants Fast Healing. But Fast Healing will not stop the bleed damage as natural healing doesn't stop bleed and bleed isn't called out as an exception. As it doesn't stop the bleed and isn't a healing spell, SR shouldn't apply.
I'm only going by what's written. If you can show me the text that backs up what you're saying I'm more than willing to listen but so far you've only made statements with no quoted rules. Please forgive me if I appear to be overly hostile, I'm just trying to figure this out.
Would it impede someone's ability to wild shape into a form with fast healing?
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The quoted rule is in the beard devil's attack it impedes the effect of ANY attempt to heal, if a spell is involved a caster check is REQUIRED. there is no...
At the point the healing is started the spell has already functioned. Once the ability kicks in what makes the spell caster level check? The spell has already gone off and it isn't a spell any more. I'm sorry, you haven't provided sufficient evidence to prove your point to me. I just don't see it.
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2 Things:
1. It's not an SR check. This is important since spell penetration does not help with this. It's a caster level check, while spell resistance is a type of caster level check it is not the only type.
2. Once magical healing is applied then the bleeding stops as per the infernal wound's description and no more checks are required. So you would check when the magical healing is applied.
Remember that Infernal healing would not help in an anti-magical zone. It is a spell, it is magic, it is healing, therefore it meets all the criteria of the infernal wound's ability. Again it doesn't matter how it heals. It's magic, it is a spell, it heals damage.
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I suppose spells like Aid or Bears Endurance don't really count as 'healing' even though they would stop bleedout from being below 0 hp.
They would, of course, buy time for the victim to find a more permanent solution.
The Barbarians Renewed Vigor, I suppose, would go off the Barbarians level as the 'CL'?
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2 Things:
1. It's not an SR check. This is important since spell penetration does not help with this. It's a caster level check, while spell resistance is a type of caster level check it is not the only type.
2. Once magical healing is applied then the bleeding stops as per the infernal wound's description and no more checks are required. So you would check when the magical healing is applied.
Remember that Infernal healing would not help in an anti-magical zone. It is a spell, it is magic, it is healing, therefore it meets all the criteria of the infernal wound's ability. Again it doesn't matter how it heals. It's magic, it is a spell, it heals damage.
1. Right, I'm confusing the two since they are so similar in this case but of course you are right.
2: It's not magical healing. It's natural healing as per the description of the ability it gains. There is no extra text that changes the "natural healing" to magical just because it's from a spell. Fast healing would not stop the bleed.
You're right, it wouldn't function in an anti-magical zone as it's an ongoing effect from the spell, but it's still natural healing per the description.
I guess we're just going to have to agree to disagree. If you can find something that says it'll be treated as magical healing because it's from a spell even though it says natural healing then that might sway my opinion.
What about the case if it already had Fast Healing (disregarding infernal healing), how would you rule it interacting with Infernal Wound?
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2: It's not magical healing. It's natural healing as per the description of the ability it gains. There is no extra text that changes the "natural healing" to magical just because it's from a spell. Fast healing would not stop the bleed.
It doesn't have to be magical. It has to be "any attempt to heal a creature suffering from an infernal wound". Which Infernal Healing is. And despite being fast healing, "Success indicates the healing works normally and stops all bleed effects on the victim." So if the caster level check succeeds, the Infernal Healing spell will stop the bleed effect.
Regular fast healing wouldn't require a check, but also wouldn't staunch the bleeding.
My interpretation would be this. It's not inherently magical healing in my opinion, I agree it's a spell granting an Ex ability, so the spell flatout would not work unless he received full on magical healing with an appropriate CL check.
In order for you to be correct then it would have to work in an anti-magic area.
Since it doesn't work in an anti-magic area, it is in fact magic. It is also healing, therefore it is magical healing.
It's akin to saying, "Cure light wounds doesn't heal, it 'cures' damage!"
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My interpretation would be this. It's not inherently magical healing in my opinion, I agree it's a spell granting an Ex ability, so the spell flatout would not work unless he received full on magical healing with an appropriate CL check.In order for you to be correct then it would have to work in an anti-magic area.
Since it doesn't work in an anti-magic area, it is in fact magic. It is also healing, therefore it is magical healing.
It's akin to saying, "Cure light wounds doesn't heal, it 'cures' damage!"
I never thought about it not working in an anti-magic area. I stand corrected.
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No! You're supposed to fight until the bitter end against mounting evidence, oblivious as your reputation and credibility slide into the abyss!
Don't correct your judgement! That way lies happiness and acceptance. Fight, fight for the good of trolls everywhere!
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The quoted rule is in the beard devil's attack it impedes the effect of ANY attempt to heal, if a spell is involved a caster check is REQUIRED. there is no...Bleed: A creature that is taking bleed damage takes the listed amount of damage at the beginning of its turn. Bleeding can be stopped by a DC 15 Heal check or through the application of any spell that cures hit point damage (even if the bleed is ability damage). Some bleed effects cause ability damage or even ability drain. Bleed effects do not stack with each other unless they deal different kinds of damage. When two or more bleed effects deal the same kind of damage, take the worse effect. In this case, ability drain is worse than ability damage.
Fast Healing (Ex) A creature with the fast healing special quality regains hit points at an exceptional rate, usually 1 or more hit points per round, as given in the creature's entry. Except where noted here, fast healing is just like natural healing. Fast healing does not restore hit points lost from starvation, thirst, or suffocation, nor does it allow a creature to regrow lost body parts. Unless otherwise stated, it does not allow lost body parts to be reattached. Fast healing continues to function (even at negative hit points) until a creature dies, at which point the effects of fast healing end immediately.
Bleed is only stopped by a heal check or a spell that provides healing. Infernal Healing doesn't heal, it grants Fast Healing. But Fast Healing will not stop the bleed damage as natural healing doesn't stop bleed and bleed isn't called out as an exception. As it doesn't stop the bleed and isn't a healing spell, SR shouldn't apply.
I'm only going by what's written. If you can show me the text that backs up what you're saying I'm more than willing to listen but so far you've only made statements with no quoted rules. Please forgive me if I appear to be overly hostile, I'm just trying to figure this out.
Bleed (Ex) A creature with this ability causes wounds that continue to bleed, inflicting additional damage each round at the start of the affected creature's turn. This bleeding can be stopped by a successful DC 15 Heal skill check or through the application of any magical healing. The amount of damage each round is determined in the creature's entry.
That include supernatural abilities and fast healing/regeneration when they are given by a magical effect.
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Bleed: A creature that is taking bleed damage takes the listed amount of damage at the beginning of its turn. Bleeding can be stopped by a DC 15 Heal check or through the application of any spell that cures hit point damage (even if the bleed is ability damage). Some bleed effects cause ability damage or even ability drain. Bleed effects do not stack with each other unless they deal different kinds of damage. When two or more bleed effects deal the same kind of damage, take the worse effect. In this case, ability drain is worse than ability damage.
but
Bleed (Ex) A creature with this ability causes wounds that continue to bleed, inflicting additional damage each round at the start of the affected creature's turn. This bleeding can be stopped by a successful DC 15 Heal skill check or through the application of any magical healing. The amount of damage each round is determined in the creature's entry.
Any magical healing include any form of supernatural ability to recover hp, included fast healing if it come from a spell or it is SU.
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Just to explain the multiple posts: it is a issue that happen twice every year when the West cost US change the Daylight saving hour. The UE change it a week earlier, so the server clock and my posting clock disagree and my posts aren't displayed.
Apparently now the servers are again synchronized or some forum Ninja has corrected the issue.
Bleed: A creature that is taking bleed damage takes the listed amount of damage at the beginning of its turn. Bleeding can be stopped by a DC 15 Heal check or through the application of any spell that cures hit point damage (even if the bleed is ability damage). Some bleed effects cause ability damage or even ability drain. Bleed effects do not stack with each other unless they deal different kinds of damage. When two or more bleed effects deal the same kind of damage, take the worse effect. In this case, ability drain is worse than ability damage.but
Bleed (Ex) A creature with this ability causes wounds that continue to bleed, inflicting additional damage each round at the start of the affected creature's turn. This bleeding can be stopped by a successful DC 15 Heal skill check or through the application of any magical healing. The amount of damage each round is determined in the creature's entry.Any magical healing include any form of supernatural ability to recover hp, included fast healing if it come from a spell or it is SU.
So would casting giant form 2 require a CL check because it might grant them regeneration which is a type of magical healing when given by a spell?
Only if it in fact does grant them that. If you use giant form to turn into a hill giant then it's not going to matter since it doesn't cure hit point damage.
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So would casting giant form 2 require a CL check because it might grant them regeneration which is a type of magical healing when given by a spell?Bleed: A creature that is taking bleed damage takes the listed amount of damage at the beginning of its turn. Bleeding can be stopped by a DC 15 Heal check or through the application of any spell that cures hit point damage (even if the bleed is ability damage). Some bleed effects cause ability damage or even ability drain. Bleed effects do not stack with each other unless they deal different kinds of damage. When two or more bleed effects deal the same kind of damage, take the worse effect. In this case, ability drain is worse than ability damage.but
Bleed (Ex) A creature with this ability causes wounds that continue to bleed, inflicting additional damage each round at the start of the affected creature's turn. This bleeding can be stopped by a successful DC 15 Heal skill check or through the application of any magical healing. The amount of damage each round is determined in the creature's entry.Any magical healing include any form of supernatural ability to recover hp, included fast healing if it come from a spell or it is SU.
Infernal Wound (Su) The damage a bearded devil deals with its glaive inflicts persistent wounds that cause 2 points of bleed damage. Bleed caused from an infernal wound is particularly difficult to stanch—a DC 17 Heal check stops the damage, and any attempt to heal a creature suffering from an infernal wound must succeed on a DC 16 caster level check or the spell does not function. Success indicates the healing works normally and stops all bleed effects on the victim. The infernal wounds caused by a bearded devil are a supernatural ability of the devil, not of the weapon.
Decidedly a gray area. I would say that failing the level check will allow you to turn into a troll but that the troll fast healing wouldn't work. Not RAW but the best compromise I can see.
Essentially the healing part of the spell would fail if the spell has a healing part and some other effect. For sure Infernal wound is meant to stop any form of healing, even indirect ones.
Infernal Wound (Su) The damage a bearded devil deals with its glaive inflicts persistent wounds that cause 2 points of bleed damage. Bleed caused from an infernal wound is particularly difficult to stanch—a DC 17 Heal check stops the damage, and any attempt to heal a creature suffering from an infernal wound must succeed on a DC 16 caster level check or the spell does not function. Success indicates the healing works normally and stops all bleed effects on the victim. The infernal wounds caused by a bearded devil are a supernatural ability of the devil, not of the weapon.Decidedly a gray area. I would say that failing the level check will allow you to turn into a troll but that the troll fast healing wouldn't work. Not RAW but the best compromise I can see.
Essentially the healing part of the spell would fail if the spell has a healing part and some other effect. For sure Infernal wound is meant to stop any form of healing, even indirect ones.
What if you already were a troll via giant form 2 with regeneration? Then a bearded devil hits you? Do you now have to retroactively make a CL check for the spell to see if the fast healing it grants can still heal you while affected by an infernal wound?
What about troll oil?
Troll Oil
Price 50 gp; Weight 1 lb.
This crimson liquid is viscous and tastes foul. If you drink it, for the next hour you automatically stabilize when reduced to negative hit points (unless the damage is sufficient to instantly kill you) and have a 50% chance each round to end any bleed effect on you. If you take fire or acid damage, the benefits of troll oil are suspended for 1 round.
Does it need to make any kind of checks, or is it just flat 50% chance to stop the bleed? Which "specific" wins? Infernal wound or troll oil?
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What about troll oil?
Does it need to make any kind of checks, or is it just flat 50% chance to stop the bleed? Which "specific" wins? Infernal wound or troll oil?Troll Oil
Price 50 gp; Weight 1 lb.
This crimson liquid is viscous and tastes foul. If you drink it, for the next hour you automatically stabilize when reduced to negative hit points (unless the damage is sufficient to instantly kill you) and have a 50% chance each round to end any bleed effect on you. If you take fire or acid damage, the benefits of troll oil are suspended for 1 round.
Alchemical cure. Not magical. It make a heal check? No.
Conclusion: it don't work.