Do hunter's qualify for Monstrous Mount?
Not by RAW. Their Animal Companion class feature is identical to the Druid class feature of the same name, it's not the Ranger feature of Hunter's Bond with Animal Companion chosen as the bond.
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I would say the Nature Training feature allows it.
Nature Training (Ex): A hunter counts her total hunter level as both druid levels and ranger levels for the purpose of qualifying for feats, traits, and options that modify or improve an animal companion.
That's an interesting way of interpreting that.. Anyone else have any thoughts on that?
I think it sounds great to me.
I would say the Nature Training feature allows it.
Nature Training (Ex): A hunter counts her total hunter level as both druid levels and ranger levels for the purpose of qualifying for feats, traits, and options that modify or improve an animal companion.
Nature Training won't allow the pure hunter to get Monstrous Mount because the requirement is one of three class features; Divine Bond, Hunters Bond or Mount and Nature Training doesn't give you class features it only lets you count your levels as both druid and ranger for the class features you do have.
Nature Training would allow Cavalier 1(or Samurai 1)/Hunter X to take Monstrous Mount if the effective druid levels from those classes stack with actual druid levels. Ranger's Hunter's Bond explicitly says it stacks. Paladin Divine Bond(mount) and the Mount class feature of Cavaliers and Samurai do not say they stack with actual Druid levels. You will probably find GMs that disagree on whether or not they are intended to do so. So expect some table variation on whether this works.
Edit: I looked at the Hunter's Animal Companion feature and it specifically says it stacks with anything else that gives an animal companion. So you yes it should all stack just fine. So Cavalier 1/Hunter X will work
That's an interesting way of interpreting that.. Anyone else have any thoughts on that?I would say the Nature Training feature allows it.
Nature Training (Ex): A hunter counts her total hunter level as both druid levels and ranger levels for the purpose of qualifying for feats, traits, and options that modify or improve an animal companion.
It's an option that improves or modifies your AC so I'm with Imbicatus.
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I would say the Nature Training feature allows it.
Nature Training (Ex): A hunter counts her total hunter level as both druid levels and ranger levels for the purpose of qualifying for feats, traits, and options that modify or improve an animal companion.Nature Training won't allow the pure hunter to get Monstrous Mount because the requirement is one of three class features; Divine Bond, Hunters Bond or Mount and Nature Training doesn't give you class features it only lets you count your levels as both druid and ranger for the class features you do have.
Nature Training would allow Cavalier 1(or Samurai 1)/Hunter X to take Monstrous Mount if the effective druid levels from those classes stack with actual druid levels. Ranger's Hunter's Bond explicitly says it stacks. Paladin Divine Bond(mount) and the Mount class feature of Cavaliers and Samurai do not say they stack with actual Druid levels. You will probably find GMs that disagree on whether or not they are intended to do so. So expect some table variation on whether this works.
Edit: I looked at the Hunter's Animal Companion feature and it specifically says it stacks with anything else that gives an animal companion. So you yes it should all stack just fine. So Cavalier 1/Hunter X will work
That's how I would read it in regards to straight up hunter qualifying for monstrous mount--that the hunter doesn't have the necessary class feature. But if enough people chimed in and said that it would work anyways then I'd be fine having a dissenting opinion and using it as other feel it should.
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Ok, here's my plan. Tell me if you think it works.
You have learned how to tame and ride exotic beasts.
Prerequisite(s): Handle Animal 4 ranks; Ride 4 ranks; divine bond (mount), hunter's bond (animal companion), or mount class feature with an effective druid level of 4.
Benefit(s): You can select an exotic beast from the list of monstrous mounts to serve as your animal companion or special mount. You acquire and advance this creature in the same way as the mount or animal companion detailed in the class feature used as a prerequisite for this feat. You can also dismiss the creature as dictated by your class feature.
Cavalier: Do animal companion levels from the druid class stack with cavalier mount levels?
If the animal is on the cavalier mount list and on the list of animal companions for your other class, your cavalier and druid levels stack to determine the animal's abilities. If the animal is not on the cavalier mount list, the druid levels do not stack and you must have different animals (one an animal companion, one a cavalier mount).
So normally a druid and cavalier must have an animal on both lists. But if the PC has the Monstrous Mount (disregarding how he qualifies for it), per the first sentence, it is now on both lists as it grants those animals to be chosen for the animal companion or mount.
So now to qualify for the feat. Cavalier 1/Hunter 3. Cavalier 1 grants the mount feature. Hunter 3 counts as 3 levels of druid for the animal companion. Add those together and I have a 4th level druid with the mount feature. So that should meet the prereq.
Now the only thing I thing I can think that may be a problem is this.
Mount (Ex): A cavalier gains the service of a loyal and trusty steed to carry him into battle. This mount functions as a druid's animal companion, using the cavalier's level as his effective druid level. The creature must be one that he is capable of riding and is suitable as a mount. A Medium cavalier can select a camel or a horse. A Small cavalier can select a pony or wolf, but can also select a boar or a dog if he is at least 4th level. The GM might approve other animals as suitable mounts.
If I'm a medium-sized PC, and I want a worg, once I have the feat by meeting the prereqs I will be able to pick it as my hunter animal companion (because the feat just grants the ability to have it be chosen, but doesn't specify which class it must be chosen for) but also per the feat it will advance as my cavalier mount because that is the class feature I used as a prereq. I won't be able to pick a worg as a mount because worgs are medium and I'm medium. But since it's a legal Animal Companion and it only advances as the mount advances this should work, too. And my effective druid level will be 4 (at this, point).
So my plan is to go 'cavalier 1/hunter X' which should give me a fully functional worg companion. I don't feel like I'm trying to break anything, I just think it'd be awesome to be a hunter with a worg companion. And without having a GM just handwaving it saying "you can just take the feat" this looks to be about the only way to do it without sinking in way more levels that I don't want to lose.
Anyone see any flaws in my logic? Or just plain disagree (and if so why)?
Anyone see any flaws in my logic? Or just plain disagree (and if so why)?
Unfortunately Monstrous Mount says "You acquire and advance this creature in the same way as the mount or animal companion detailed in the class feature used as a prerequisite for this feat." So you must adhere to the same restrictions as the class feature you are using to qualify which is the Cavalier Mount feature and requires you to choose an animal suitable for your mount.
If I were the GM I would allow it but you'll need to consult your GM or choose a small race.
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Anyone see any flaws in my logic? Or just plain disagree (and if so why)?Unfortunately Monstrous Mount says "You acquire and advance this creature in the same way as the mount or animal companion detailed in the class feature used as a prerequisite for this feat." So you must adhere to the same restrictions as the class feature you are using to qualify which is the Cavalier Mount feature and requires you to choose an animal suitable for your mount.
If I were the GM I would allow it but you'll need to consult your GM or choose a small race.
Ah, you're right. Apparently I glossed over that part. I'd wanted a human so I could take the "eye for talent" alternate racial trait and make my Animal Companion smarter, but I guess a worg is smart enough that I could just pick a small race. Lead Blades with a small guy doesn't have the same "oomph" though.
So for PFS, my choices are Gnome, Halfling, and Wayang.. If I want to be melee and not have a str penalty.. I guess that leaves me with Wayang.. Well, this could be interesting.
You could always pick up the undersized mount feat, which lets you ride animals of the same size. From ACG.
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You could always pick up the undersized mount feat, which lets you ride animals of the same size. From ACG.
Awesome! You've just made my day ^_^.
Now I need to actually plan out this guy and see what it looks like if I spend a feat for Monstrous Mount and spend another for Undersized Mount. Useful feats just keep popping out of the ACG.
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Just remember to keep the STR bonus and possibly ant haul on your companion if you are using undersize mount. Medium mounts get encumbered VERY quickly with a medium rider.
I'll probably never ride him so that won't make much difference. That brings up another question. (well kinda, ant haul is a touch spell so it doesn't specifically apply)
Does a Cavalier/Hunter (or Cavalier/Druid for that matter) 's companion have the Share Spell ability?
The cavalier/hunter does not get share spells since cavalier specifically says its mount does not get share spells and the Hunter's effective druid levels stack for progression of whatever abilities your companion receives but since a cavalier's mount never receives share spells you don't get it.
Also you could not have a verminous hunter because that archetype must choose a vermin rather than a creature suitable for a mount which is required by the Cavalier mount feature. So you can't meet the qualifications for both the Cavalier and that Hunter archetype.
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By the same logic above I could also be a Verminous Hunter with a worg companion, right? (also bump for above question)
Expect table variation. You have to take a specific type of companion with the Verminous Hunter, so some GMs may not allow the feat to override that. It's like the druid animal domains that grant a specific familiar and then taking improved familiar.
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The cavalier/hunter does not get share spells since cavalier specifically says its mount does not get share spells and the Hunter's effective druid levels stack for progression of whatever abilities your companion receives but since a cavalier's mount never receives share spells you don't get it.
Also you could not have a verminous hunter because that archetype must choose a vermin rather than a creature suitable for a mount which is required by the Cavalier mount feature. So you can't meet the qualifications for both the Cavalier and that Hunter archetype.
In general, yes, but would that not be overridden by this line in Monstrous Mount? "You can select an exotic beast from the list of monstrous mounts to serve as your animal companion or special mount" In this regard, I honestly don't see how this is any different than the Improved Familiar feat. You start with a small pool of options and take the feat to expand your pool of options. How would this be different?
At this point it's merely a brain exercise, I don't actually have plans to try to also be a verminous hunter in addition to what I've outlined above.
And if anyone is curious, it works out much better to be a human with the bonus feat for Undersized Mount and the +2 for my str than any of the small races for a melee build (assuming I want lead blades to be useful)
In general, yes, but would that not be overridden by this line in Monstrous Mount? "You can select an exotic beast from the list of monstrous mounts to serve as your animal companion or special mount"The cavalier/hunter does not get share spells since cavalier specifically says its mount does not get share spells and the Hunter's effective druid levels stack for progression of whatever abilities your companion receives but since a cavalier's mount never receives share spells you don't get it.
Also you could not have a verminous hunter because that archetype must choose a vermin rather than a creature suitable for a mount which is required by the Cavalier mount feature. So you can't meet the qualifications for both the Cavalier and that Hunter archetype.
No, for two reasons. 1) Monsterous Mount just adding to the list of possible companions. The Verminous Hunter requirement is telling you what you must select from off of that list, a vermin. 2) You must take your levels in both cavalier and verminous hunter before you qualify for Monsterous Mount and you are never going to be able to have both Cavalier and Verminous Hunter at once to get the feat in the first place. For example:
Level 1 Cavalier gets mount
Level 2 Verminous Hunter is required to select a vermin as their companion but can't because it isn't a suitable mount.
or
Level 1 Verminous Hunter must choose a vermin companion
Level 2 Cavalier is required to select a suitable mount but cannot because it isn't a vermin.
There is just no way to get both Cavalier and Verminous Hunter to the stacked druid level necessary to even qualify for Monsterous Mount because of the conflict.
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In general, yes, but would that not be overridden by this line in Monstrous Mount? "You can select an exotic beast from the list of monstrous mounts to serve as your animal companion or special mount"The cavalier/hunter does not get share spells since cavalier specifically says its mount does not get share spells and the Hunter's effective druid levels stack for progression of whatever abilities your companion receives but since a cavalier's mount never receives share spells you don't get it.
Also you could not have a verminous hunter because that archetype must choose a vermin rather than a creature suitable for a mount which is required by the Cavalier mount feature. So you can't meet the qualifications for both the Cavalier and that Hunter archetype.
No, for two reasons. 1) Monsterous Mount just adding to the list of possible companions. The Verminous Hunter requirement is telling you what you must select from off of that list, a vermin. 2) You must take your levels in both cavalier and verminous hunter before you qualify for Monsterous Mount and you are never going to be able to have both Cavalier and Verminous Hunter at once to get the feat in the first place. For example:
Level 1 Cavalier gets mount
Level 2 Verminous Hunter is required to select a vermin as their companion but can't because it isn't a suitable mount.or
Level 1 Verminous Hunter must choose a vermin companion
Level 2 Cavalier is required to select a suitable mount but cannot because it isn't a vermin.There is just no way to get both Cavalier and Verminous Hunter to the stacked druid level necessary to even qualify for Monsterous Mount because of the conflict.
Yeah, I can see that. Especially because of how this is worded for Verminous Hunter
At 1st level, a verminous
hunter must choose a vermin companion instead of an
animal companion (Ultimate Magic 36). This ability alters
animal companion. The hunter tactics class ability allows a
verminous hunter to grant her teamwork feats to a mindless
vermin companion.
So it's not a reduced/altered list as I was thinking initially. It says "instead of animal companion" so it would stop qualifying.