Umpteenth Dragon's Demand Campaign Discussion

[Brett Turney]

OMG. I went to a convention in Chattanooga called Coonga and got a free Pathfinder
Tales book. Just now looking at the back cover only to see that it is pretty much about my character, Rafaelis. Now I'm going to have to read it. Book is titled, "Nightblade." Weird!

[Professor Taldus Bellerophon]

Traveling this week for work. Back on Friday. Expect delayed posting until then.

[Bear'f]

Hi all,

I'm still looking at the boards every other day... I know every one is busy... Hope to see us all posting soon...

[GM Art Severance]

Sorry, I'm working on it and hoping life slows down a little to make it easier for me to post daily!

[Brett Turney]

Hey somebody jostle Dan's elbow. He might have stopped paying attention due to the hiatus.

[Bear'f]

Rafaelis wrote:

Hey somebody jostle Dan's elbow. He might have stopped paying attention due to the hiatus.

Lol.. Very true... Sorry for my delay...

[Bear'f]

Bear'f doesn't mind catching up to you guys... I thought he was guarding the wagons...

[GM Art Severance]

Bear'f can absolutely be caught up with the party by now. If he was guarding the wagons, the party can have stopped by on the way to the Deep Cave or the can Forgotten One fly over and fetch him. Either way, he's caught up.

I added Bear'f's token to the map. I accidentally didn't catch it in the cut and pasted when I was moving tokens to the new map. I'm sorry about that!

[Bear'f]

I've just seen this... I've moved his token on the roll20 page...

[GM Art Severance]

Bear'f wrote:

I've just seen this... I've moved his token on the roll20 page...

Excellent, thanks!

[Albern Fee]

I am on vacation with uncertain internet connectivity through Sunday the 5th. Bot me as needed.

[Brett Turney]

I can't move the lanterns Art

[GM Art Severance]

Rafaelis wrote:

I can't move the lanterns Art

I'm sorry, I forgot I needed to give you control of objects like that. You should be able to move them now.

[Brett Turney]

Art. You moved the goblin on the boulder too far. Climb speed is at 1/4 normal speed unless you take a -5 to the check. The boulder is 15' high and has a DC 15. The goblin had to move to the Boulder and then climb the equivalent of 60'. If it tried to fast climb then it failed the DC by 1 and made no progress. I am going to assume that it is not right next to Rafaelis when performing his action. Actually he will do it in any event.

[GM Art Severance]

Rafaelis wrote:

Art. You moved the goblin on the boulder too far. Climb speed is at 1/4 normal speed unless you take a -5 to the check. The boulder is 15' high and has a DC 15. The goblin had to move to the Boulder and then climb the equivalent of 60'. If it tried to fast climb then it failed the DC by 1 and made no progress. I am going to assume that it is not right next to Rafaelis when performing his action. Actually he will do it in any event.

I'll double-check.

[GM Art Severance]

Good catch. I moved him.

[Brett Turney]

FYI- the entire Entangle area is difficult terrain while the effect lasts whether ones saves or not.

[GM Art Severance]

I'm aware. Goblins have a move speed of 30'. A double move goes 60'.

[Brett Turney]

I don't know about goblin dogs specifically but you may want to consider handle animal checks for riderless dogs, especially for ones that are wounded.

[Brett Turney]

Hey somebody give Derek a nudge. It's his turn.

[Professor Taldus Bellerophon]

Nudge received.

[Denge Fevor]

Hey Derek. Nudge. V.(-|-).V

[Professor Taldus Bellerophon]

I'm traveling tomorrow. Limited email access. Will be able to post in evening, though.

[Brett Turney]

If Baer'f is going to take AOO's he might as have gotten them from moving away from the creatures threatening him rather than stayong in one place only to get attacked again.

[GM Art Severance]

He used his move action to do extra damage. That actually worked out pretty well for you, because that goblin is quite close to keeling over. One shot or a couple rounds of bleed will do it.

[Brett Turney]

Ah! Pay no attention to my foolish prattle then...

[GM Art Severance]

Joe, can you walk me through how Penelope's AC would be 18 with a mage armor? I'm not familiar with spirtualists, but I see that she has a 12 Dex, so has +1 to AC from that. I don't see anything else that raises her non-mage armor AC above 11 (it's listed as 13 in her stats). So mage armor would only raise her to 15.

Is there something not in her stat block here giving her a +2 or +3 boost? From the way her AC, Touch AC, and Flat Footed AC are written, I'm guessing she may have an armor, natural armor, and/or deflection bonus to her AC. If so, is it +2 or +3 and what's the origin; is it a phantom thing?

[Brett Turney]

I will be incommunicado from Friday Afternoon to Sunday Afternoon.

[Denge Fevor]

I will pull out the Hero lab and do the math when I get home tonight

[Albern Fee]

I have a few moments. Occult Adventure's Playtest:

Phantom

Starting Statistics wrote:

Size As spiritualist or one size category
smaller (no smaller than Small); Speed 30 ft.; AC +2 def lection
(in incorporeal form), or +2 natural armor (in ectoplasmic
form); Attack 2 slams (1d6 or 1d4 if size Small); Ability Scores
Str 12, Dex 14, Con 13, Int 7, Wis 10, Cha 13

He looks to have an anger phantom:

Anger wrote:

Strength Focus: Phantoms with this emotional focus
gain a +2 bonus to Strength and a –2 penalty to Dexterity.
Instead of gaining a bonus to Dexterity as the spiritualist
gains levels, an anger-focused phantom gains an increase
to Strength instead.

This spirit grants no defensive bonuses.

Expected AC would indeed be AC 13/11/12 (ectoplamic form), or 17/11/16 with mage armor.

I would guess that the error was in using the non-adjusted Dexterity in AC calculations. This would have given 18/12/16, as listed in the quick profile (but not the main profile).

[GM Art Severance]

Thanks, that's what I sort of thought. Once he confirms it, we'll know for sure, but it looks like Penelope was missed. Either way, once Dan posts Bear'f's action, the combat will continue!

[Denge Fevor]

re-read the whole play test. Missed a a bunch.

AC 17 = +10 (Base) + 1 (Dex) +2 (Natural Armor, Phantom trait) + 4 (Mage Armor)

Also Penelope has a d10 for hit dice, but does not get max hit points at "1st level" so she has 6 hit points instead of 12 (new total and damaged reflected on profile.)

Her Strength and Charisma increase by 1 every level.

She has DR 5/Slashing
DR does not apply to touch attacks, including non-magical fire.

She attacks twice per round.

[Brett Turney]

@Denge: are you sure about the non-max hit points at first level? That doesn't sound right. Check that in a Hero Lab will you because that sounds awefully fragile.

[GM Art Severance]

Penelope will have all of those characteristics going forward and the AC 17 against the goblin attack. Until the Occult Adventures book comes out in July, Penelope will have max hit points at first level. Because the attack misses, by my calculations Penelope is currently down 6 hp. She take her second slam attack for the last round against the riderless, wounded goblin dog [Red] now. Don't forget the +1 for higher ground.

[Albern Fee]

So, I just downloaded the playtest guide last night, and am basing my commentary on that.

Denge Fevor wrote:

re-read the whole play test. Missed a a bunch.

Also Penelope has a d10 for hit dice, but does not get max hit points at "1st level" so she has 6 hit points instead of 12 (new total and damaged reflected on profile.)

This is in line with how animal companions are handled for druids in PFS - they also only get the average hp. See the faq.

Denge Fevor wrote:

Her Strength and Charisma increase by 1 every level.

As per the phantom advancement table in the occult playtest guide p. 58, those increases do not actually occur every level, but at levels 2, 5, 8, 10, 12, 15, 17, 20. There is also an "any" ability score increase at 5, 10 ,15.

Denge Fevor wrote:

She has DR 5/Slashing
DR does not apply to touch attacks, including non-magical fire.

Where are you getting the stuff about touch attacks and non-magical fire from? I don't see that in the playtest guide at all (DR doesn't apply to fire attacks, magic or not, anyways.)

-----------

Just as playtest feedback commentary, these things are going to be a fragile at higher levels. At level 9, for instance, I calculate at most 63 hp if the "any" bump is put in Con - awfully low for a "front line" creature. Animal companions have, in comparison, more HD at an equivalent level and get beefy constitution bumps in the low-mid levels. Maybe spiritualist spells and DR offset this a bit, but still, ouch.

[Denge Fevor]

Agreed Spiritualist/Phantom is a weak front liner character class, but has nice flavor. : D

The interplay between DR and touch attacks/non-magical fire comes from the SRD Here

Art I show Penelope's max hit points at 6 and her current damage at 5, four for the first round of fire damage and 1 point in the second round.

Either way lets make a ruling and move on. Art I will set Penelope's max hit points at 10 and she has taken 6 points of damage. I will have her take her second attack. If you want me to change any of these things let me know. I don't want to bog the game down in rules research.

[Albern Fee]

Ah, ok. I've never had the touch attack thing come up as an issue, but there you go.

[GM Art Severance]

Denge Fevor wrote:

Art I show Penelope's max hit points at 6 and her current damage at 5, four for the first round of fire damage and 1 point in the second round.

Penelope has taken the following damage in this combat and received the following healing:

4 points of fire damage from the hit by the alchemist's fire on 4/3 at 1:25.
1 point of fire damage from the failed save against the ongoing fire damage.
4 points from the bite attack by the goblin dog on 4/7 at 10:19. Bite attacks do slashing damage (as well as piercing and bludgeoning), so the bite bypassed Penelope's DR See the universal monster rules.
That hit, however, missed due to Penelope's heightened AC, despite the fact that Penelope's AC as listed in the bar under her name, listed her AC as 13 not 17.
Professor Bellerophon healed Penelope for 3 hp.
Therefore Penelope a net loss of 2 hp.

On a personal note, this discussion and the constant retconning seriously sap my will to run this game. Please stop. It's gotten to the point where I feel like I can't post one result without someone popping up to explain how I got it wrong. If I'm doing that terrible of a job of it, I can spend my time doing other things.

It's not my fault that Penelope's AC was listed wrong. It's not my job to fix it when mage armor is cast. Had I noticed it at the time, I would have said something. I appreciate the efforts of others to help, but when I ask Joe to confirm the AC calculation for his character, I need him to do it. Anyone else's input is well-informed conjecture but not actually determinative. Now we've spent a great deal of time on this issue. It's fixed. In the future, I'm holding you to the AC listed in the bar unless I recall a reason not to. Dan, when you get a chance, please add information about Bear'f's hp, AC, saves, perception, and initiative after Bear'f class and level in his alias profile.

Going forward, the only thing I am going backward to fix is a mistake that immediately and directly kills a character. Anything short of that isn't worth this much time and effort. Let us all acknowledge that mistakes will happen on both sides and that we won't be spending this sort of effort on future ones, unless an immediate error was made that resulted in a character death. Having an extended discussion by post to determine what should have happened, and then going going back through the posts to reconstruct what did happen and what needs to be done to fix it is too time-consuming and tedious.

To be clear, since bald text doesn't convey emotion well, I'm venting frustration so you understand the reason for the ruling. I'm not mad at anyone. I want things to be right, too, so I understand the impulse. I'm just asking you to check it. We're spending too much time fixing things and not enough time playing.

[Albern Fee]

Might I request a "man down" token on felled baddies (or goodies?) Thx!

[GM Art Severance]

Albern Fee wrote:

Might I request a "man down" token on felled baddies (or goodies?) Thx!

Definitely. I'll put a red X across them. If they die, I will remove them from the field entirely.

[GM Art Severance]

Albern Fee wrote:

Might I request a "man down" token on felled baddies (or goodies?) Thx!

Done. I revamped how team evil looks as follows:

Any foe that is incapacitated has a big red X through it so long as it remains incapacitated.

Any foe that is entangled has a little net on it.

Any foe that is unconscious has a little circle with two lines through it on it.

Any foe that is blind has a little oval head that looks like a ninja on it.

Any foe that is stunned has a lightning bolt on it.

Any foe that dies will be removed from the board entirely.

Goblins with crossbows are the goblins who came in on foot and who are armed with two dogslicers and shortbows, and who seem to be good a two-weapon fighting. I will refer to them henceforth as "normal goblins" (though they are not quite normal).

Goblins with bows and the nameplate "Outrider" are the ones with the alchemical bandoleers who rode in on goblin dogs. I will refer to them henceforth as "outriders" (though neither one is riding anymore).

Goblins with robes and staves and the nameplate "Adept" are the ones with the unholy symbols who rode in on goblin dogs. I will refer to them henceforth as "adepts" (though they are really just corpses waiting to happen at this point).

I separated all goblin dog riders from the goblin dogs they ride as tokens. Ones that are incapacitated are under ones that are active. There are no active pogs concealing other active pogs.

However, there are two wands concealed under the two incapacitated adepts. There are also two incapacitated goblin dogs under the orange adept the blue outrider.

I am giving you all control of all the foe pieces so you can move them and look under them. Please be extra cautious in doing so to ensure they go back where they belong. Consider using ctrl+z to undo any moves you make, rather than guessing where they go.

[GM Art Severance]

Furthermore:

Any foe that is bleeding (either dying and not stable or taking bleed damage) has a little heart on it.

[GM Art Severance]

I have to run the magic item fair at a con this coming Saturday, and then Sunday is the 80th birthday of my mother-in-law. We're having a party here at the house. So I'm going to be able to intermittently post over the next three days. I'll check in and post when I can.

[Bear'f]

I overslept for about 22 hours... sorry, too much work!

[GM Art Severance]

No problem at all! Post when you can, don't worry about it when you can't. It happens to all of us!

[Bear'f]

I'm on a 14 hour shift starting from a couple of minutes ago... I may be able to post in sequence... If I'm a little late that is why...

[GM Art Severance]

No problem at all. Post when you're able. There's no rush!

[Albern Fee]

so are the official "PFS" rerolls? As in, add GM stars and all that jazz?

[GM Art Severance]

Albern Fee wrote:

so are the official "PFS" rerolls? As in, add GM stars and all that jazz?

Indeed! If you have GM stars to add on your rerolls, use them!

[Albern Fee]

Cool. My spoilered reroll in the ready will hit then, when it goes off (and regardless of whether Brethon chooses to flank), assuming AC 20