Tongue (Ex) - A giant frog's tongue is a primary attack with reach equal to three times the frog's normal reach (15 feet for a Medium giant frog). A giant frog's tongue deals no damage on a hit, but can be used to grab. A giant frog does not gain the grappled condition while using its tongue in this manner.
What reach enchancers would extend to the tongue? For example would the reach evolution to the frog's bite count for the 3 times making it a 30ft reach with a 10ft bite?
Note: I already assume size increases would work but since the frog is medium quadruped squat body he'd have to be huge to get 10ft reach so this is mainly none size reach extenders.
The bite and tongue are two different natural attacks. The lunge feat might work.
The bite and tongue are two different natural attacks. The lunge feat might work.
Yeah this I do know but the tongue is special in that it's reach is bases on something else, the frog's normal reach. I guess what's normal reach for a frog? Can I take reach(normal)?
The bite and tongue are two different natural attacks. The lunge feat might work.Yeah this I do know but the tongue is special in that it's reach is bases on something else, the frog's normal reach. I guess what's normal reach for a frog? Can I take reach(normal)?
Even if you extend the bite's threat range it does not change the creature's base reach. That is determined by body type (long vs tall) and size category.
Normal reach for a frog is apparently just normal reach (it says 5 feet for a medium frog) so large would get you 10 feet and huge 15 feet. Standard reach for monsters is equal to their size (Pathfinder doesn't have the large(long) and large(tall) distinction of 3.5), monsters who are different are exceptions, not the rule.
Yes it does. Its even specifically mentioned on page 195 of the core rulebook (table Creature Size and Scale).
Its not something specifically called out in a stat block (just like it wasn't called out in the stat block in 3.5 either). You have to check the creatures size and reach to determine if it is (long) or (tall). Centaurs, for instance, are Large (long) creatures, as they only have 5' reach. Same with horses.
Yeah a giant frog AC is a quadruped squat body as per the animal companion magic item slots chart so to get 10ft reach he'd have to be huge size.
Yeah I was mainly trying to see if I could get that triple range to the reach, I can always just take reach (tongue), lunge, and longarm(maybe) to get more tongue.
It's for a specific off the wall strange build for kidnappings, rescuing, and saving people. Goes sorta like tongue->grapple(adjacent)->pull(same square: mouth)->swallow->getaway.
The only way I see the frog getting to huge-sized at the moment is through the Primal Companion Hunter. Also opens up the Reach evolution, which if Tongue is considered a natural attack, could be applied to it.
I'm a bit confused about the rules behind grappling with this tongue, though. The frog companion doesn't have any sort of pull as the beastiary frog does. There's nothing overwriting the general rule in grappling outside of immediate range:
If you successfully grapple a creature that is not adjacent to you, move that creature to an adjacent open space (if no space is available, your grapple fails).
The only way I see the frog getting to huge-sized at the moment is through the Primal Companion Hunter. Also opens up the Reach evolution, which if Tongue is considered a natural attack, could be applied to it.
I'm a bit confused about the rules behind grappling with this tongue, though. The frog companion doesn't have any sort of pull as the beastiary frog does. There's nothing overwriting the general rule in grappling outside of immediate range:
If you successfully grapple a creature that is not adjacent to you, move that creature to an adjacent open space (if no space is available, your grapple fails).
Frog Companions
Starting Statistics: Size Medium; Speed 30 ft., swim 30 ft.; AC +1 natural armor; Attack bite (1d6); Ability Scores Str 15, Dex 13, Con 16, Int 1, Wis 9, Cha 6; Special Qualities low-light vision, scent, tongue, pull.4th–Level Adv.: Ability Scores Str +2, Dex +2; Special Qualities swallow whole.
Yeah they actually do have pull, also the tongue is a natural attack (touch attack in fact). Also I'm not 100% on tongue grapple but I just take the best of RAW. Also this is for a primal companion hunter, might be able to get it to gargantuan if I use animal growth.
Primal Transformation is typed as a Supernatural effect, meaning it's magical (can be suppressed by antimagic fields). Animal Growth would not stack because both are magical effects which increase size.
You are correct about pull existing (I somehow missed it), but it doesn't have a footage or associated natural attack. Does this mean the DM gets to choose how far the creature is moved, and if the frog is huge, it can pull with a bite attack? Anyways, Pull and Tongue do not overwrite the grapple rule that a creature must be placed adjacent to the grappler. In fact, it appears that the Pull would only come into effect if the frog were to hit with the tongue, then fail the grapple maneuver (but chose to take another free action to perform the Pull maneuver).
Yeah they jumped the shark on a lot of those ACs buy virtue of "making them simple". Even oddly enough and I had missed this till you said you didn't see pull but grab is missing from the entry, everything is listed correctly in the monster block but gets all messed up in the AC block. In addition to the ones that you noticed, swallow whole doesn't have a damage rating either.
Both pull and grab activate on a successful attack as free actions so you should be able to do both the same round. Yet honestly in really not sure pull actually does much of anything as the rules for getting something on your mouth are vague.
I feel like this should be tied in with the 'grappling a succubus' thread.