Goblin Squad Member
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I have a lot of casual players in my group who are overwhelmed with the information found here on the forums and on the various spreadsheets and player created tool. I have sent them the links I have created at:
Reference_New Player Resourcesand I also emailed them the excellent Basic Guide to Budgeting Exp in PFO to get them started.
I would appreciate some recommendations for casual players trying to create the following "build" ideas:
Heavy PVE Dwarven Melee Fighter (Axe & Shield or Hammer & Shield w/longbow; heavy armor; for fighting PVE escalations and protecting gatherers)
Thanks in advance for any help, as I am just starting to learn how to play Alpha myself and I honestly don't know what to recommend yet.
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Goblin Squad Member
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PVE Self-Healing Tank Cleric (Optimal When Played as Dwarf)
With things as they are right now this is a powerhouse PvE build. They can control the spawn while their party picks off targets as well as being very good solers. I hope your guys enjoy it.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Shameless plug of my calculators (Current version is v44):
The training tab allows mock character training. Amongst the features is the ability to import and export training plans. (A training plan is simply a text list of skills to be trained in order and is saved in the training_plans folder.) There are some obsolete samples included with the distribution, but the intention is for people to be able to share the plans easily with eachother for making builds as this thread is doing.
Eventually I want to have a mock paperdoll window with character stats, but that's still a little ways off.
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Goblin Squad Member
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PVE Self-Healing Tank Cleric (Optimal When Played as Dwarf)
With things as they are right now this is a powerhouse PvE build. They can control the spawn while their party picks off targets as well as being very good solers. I hope your guys enjoy it.
Minor point. They do need to equip a holy symbol unless they have found spells for it which is unlikely this early.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Update: I received a Steel Battle Axe for this fighter, and the system automatically "slotted" the following six attacks:
(1-3) Chop, Basic Battle Axe Strike, Hack and (4-6)Cut, Sunder, Basic Battle Axe Exploit; even though I had a Pine Light Shield (with feats) equipped.
Does the fighter automatically know these feats (freebies), do you need to train them, or are automatically given when you equip this weapon on the paperdoll?
Are there better "Axe" feats I should trained instead?
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Goblin Squad Member
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The best way to start the study, I believe, is exactly where we create our characters: zeroth level. One needs only to look over the Effects, as keywords won't enter the equation particularly intrusively yet; they'll--mostly--wait for +1 and better equipment.
Tooltips for attacks badly need "Primary" and "Secondary" labels, because that's what a first-day player needs to look at in deciding his purchases. Primaries set Effects, and Secondaries use them; each player can choose those Effects he thinks most useful for his play-style.
For now, however, one needs the assistance of the boards, other players, and the spreadsheets to ease into the game.
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Goblin Squad Member
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PVE Self-Healing Tank Cleric (Optimal When Played as Dwarf)
With things as they are right now this is a powerhouse PvE build. They can control the spawn while their party picks off targets as well as being very good solers. I hope your guys enjoy it.
I've uploaded a video demonstration of this build. The build in the video doesn't have the implements or stunning critical so it's actually less powerful than the build I posted. That doesn't seem to hinder it much.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I've uploaded a video demonstration of this build. The build in the video doesn't have the implements or stunning critical so it's actually less powerful than the build I posted. That doesn't seem to hinder it much.PVE Self-Healing Tank Cleric (Optimal When Played as Dwarf)
With things as they are right now this is a powerhouse PvE build. They can control the spawn while their party picks off targets as well as being very good solers. I hope your guys enjoy it.
That is pretty much how I play when in a party. I charge in and draw the aggro and start healing myself when necessary. There are level 1 spells that also increase your regen rate for a few rounds.
It would be interesting to see if a medium armor "Healer" version with the regen +1 could be made workable.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I can test that tommorow. I'm guessing it will be a viable build but the +1 regen doesn't seem to outweigh both the armor downgrade and the loss of the melee attack bonus from crusader.
If they rebalance armors so that heavy isn't so ridiculously good, and possibly give some healing bonuses to the healer armor feat that may be a build worth reassessing though.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Struggling to understand weapon combos/rotations, feats and keywords:
Using PFO Wiki Attack Featsto try to make the most of my Steel Battle Axe.
One Handed Axes have these attacks:
Primary:(Free-Basic Battle Axe Strike), Cut, Chop, Hack, Sunder
Secondary:(Free-Basic Battle Axe Exploit),Carve, Mangle, Hew, Shear
I currently have all trained to level 2 (except the free ones), and I have them slotted as:
(1)Chop,(2)Cut,(3)Cut,(4)Mangle,(5)Carve,(6)Hew
I am not sure if:
A) This is an efficient "rotation" based on cool downs and setting up special 'green button attacks", for lack of better words.
B) I should have kept the two "free" attacks in my rotations.
C) If I am making the best use of my Steel Battle Axe keywords (as I didn't take Sunder or Shear for lack of space).
Help? :(
(Edit: The spreadsheets and the calculator confuse me, sorry for not understanding how to read them.)
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Goblin Squad Member
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(You listed cut as slotted twice.)
A +1 steel battleaxe will match both keywords on level 2 chop, cut, mangle, carve and hew. A +0 battleaxe would be like if you were using level 1 attacks. The upgrade to +1 will be a noticeable increase in dps, so I'd recommend getting one if you haven't already. If you train up to level 3 attacks you will match all 3 keywords on a +2 battleaxe. Until you have at least one attack at level 3 a +2 battleaxe will be just as good in your hands as a +1.
If you're confused about how to use the calculators please feel free to pm me. I plan on making a guide at some point, but getting functionality first is more important imo.
Matching weapon keywords to attacks, matching expendable keywords to class features and matching armor feats to armor (gear) is already included in the calculators. Not "What gear/feat is keyword x on?", but rather "I have X gear/feats. How many keywords (counting majors as 4) does Y feat/gear match to X? List this for every relevant Y." Also you can tell max damage and stamina efficiency of attacks and expendables based on how many keywords they match on some searches.
As an example of using them, here's how I used them to tell which weapon to use with your choice of attacks:
1) setting the max attack level to 2 on the Advanced tab as your attacks are all at level 2.
2) Go to the Wiki tab (eventually there will be a pure keyword lookup tab, including allowing different levels for each attack but not there yet). At the bottom is an "Attack<->Weapon keyword matching" section. Use the dropdown menu to choose attacks and add them to your list of attacks using the "Add" button. Once you've done press "Appropriate weapons for above attacks". This will bring up a window listing weapons and how many keywords are matched for each of your attacks.
Going the other way and searching based on choosing a +1 Steel Battleaxe as your weapon and then pressing the "Find Attacks with Keywords" button gives the following table (I saved the table as text as it makes a popup window):
Attack || Form || Weapon Category || Number of Matched Keywords (major x4) || f*(b-r) || f*(b-r)/s
Chop || Primary || One-Handed Axe || 2 || 53 || 3.118
Hack || Primary || One-Handed Axe || 2 || 68 || 2.957
Cut || Primary || One-Handed Axe || 2 || 73 || 3.174
Sunder || Primary || One-Handed Axe || 2 || 64 || 2.783
Mangle || Secondary || One-Handed Axe || 2 || 114 || 2.478
Carve || Secondary || One-Handed Axe || 2 || 163 || 2.629
Hew || Secondary || One-Handed Axe || 2 || 125 || 2.016
Shear || Secondary || One-Handed Axe || 2 || 86 || 1.387
f*(b-r) here represents the max damage you will do with the given attack. It is calculated for a target with 0 physical resistance (that is changeable in the Advanced tab).
f*(b-r)/s is essentially how stamina efficient an attack is. It's basically how much bang you get for your buck out of your stamina pool. The higher the better.
If I instead set the enemy resistance to 27 (what someone with heavy armor and 1 matched keyword would have) the table is instead:
Attack || Form || Weapon Category || Number of Matched Keywords (major x4) || f*(b-r) || f*(b-r)/s
Chop || Primary || One-Handed Axe || 2 || 24 || 1.412
Hack || Primary || One-Handed Axe || 2 || 32 || 1.391
Cut || Primary || One-Handed Axe || 2 || 34 || 1.478
Sunder || Primary || One-Handed Axe || 2 || 29 || 1.261
Mangle || Secondary || One-Handed Axe || 2 || 53 || 1.152
Carve || Secondary || One-Handed Axe || 2 || 75 || 1.21
Hew || Secondary || One-Handed Axe || 2 || 58 || 0.935
Shear || Secondary || One-Handed Axe || 2 || 40 || 0.645
Please note that the damage numbers are only upfront damage and don't take into account combos! That requires proper coding of rotations. Adding a rotation tab to the calculators to see how much damage any given setup will do is being worked on.
What I'd conclude as a preliminary assessment (again I would emphasize that this is without taking into account proper combos) is that Carve is your big opener and Cut is your most stamina efficient attack to spam based on upfront damage. I haven't looked at secondary effects to see what setups are possible.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Lots of Calculator Math...
-Yes "(2)Hack", was the correct entry.
-Getting a +1 Steel Battleaxe is not easy, our crafting team is working on creating them.
-I have honestly held off on the calculator not because of what it is or what it does, but because I don't understand the words and terms it references (charts, spreadsheet, missing wiki data, hard to read feat descriptions on Feats Page, running Paper doll sentences, "?" for descriptions and what things do and where they go...). As we get closer to EE and you have a stable version with guide, I will learn to use it with gusto! :)
-Your calculator does indeed find the best keywords for a weapon, but I don't understand how it helps me to find synergies in slotting the feats so that:
Primary Weapon Slots: #1, #2 and #3 open up the "special green button attacks" found on Secondary Weapon Slots #4, #5, #6; while also organizing them from greater to lesser criteria(or the other way), based on cool down, damage or stamina.
I have x5 Primary Attacks and x5 Secondary Attacks, but only have slots for 3 of each. Trying to figure out which 2 Primaries and which 2 Secondaries I should "drop" is where I am struggling.
If its hard for me (and I am trying to understand and have been following PFO almost daily for 2 years), I can't even imagine how casual and "this is my first MMO" players must feel...
Does the above make sense? :)
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Goblin Squad Member
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For now, hold off on training any attacks up to level 3 until you can get access to +2 weapons. Plenty of other feats to spend your xp on. But bug those crafters: a +1 weapon will provide you with a noticeable increase in dps since you've already trained level 2 attacks. By noticeable I mean it's 12.5% more upfront damage against targets with no physical resistance and more than 12.5% against targets with better resistance. I don't think my crafter can make battleaxes, so I can't help in that regards.
Ya, finding synergies is not a current feature. The best it can do for now is allow you to look up what attacks have a given effect in them (rotation tab). As I said above adding proper attack rotations to find synergies is coming but will take work. Until then it's just a matter of in game experimentation. Each version of the calculators is a minor upgrade so it will be a number of versions until it that is fully implemented.
The spreadsheets I refer to are the publicly available data from the devs. Nihimon posts links to copies of it. Stephen has been kind enough to grant me access to the them as well so that I can download them. The calculators automatically read in and parse the spreadsheets. If you want to see the spreadsheets directly they are included in every distribution as "PFO Wiki - Official Data". I make no alterations to them. Not everything is included in those spreadsheets yet. For example, gear that provides bonuses to your utility feats is not yet included so I haven't added gear<->utility keyword matching into the calculators.
The 'paper doll' is what you bring up in game by pressing P. It's an older mmo term. PFO's paperdoll is where you slot your feats. I want to add something along those lines to the training calculator as a way to determine what your stats would be if you had trained certain things. So more of a combination of the paperdoll and character sheet. Again, that's a ways off though.
Yeah clerics go hard as melee because their heals are not bad... but the real issue is that they can protectively enchant themselves and it really affects damage with nice armor on.
You'll be taking a lot of damage from like those red skeleton mobs with an archer, a skele mage, a goblin mage... like you couldn't go in on that mob solo, but you could somewhat tank it.
In terms of lesser mobs or even pvp, I think that's one of the best melee builds.
Again, until they make it so that you can't mix and match everything (or until spec is much more powerful), you may find that self healing, mild clericism will be a staple.
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Goblin Squad Member
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PFO Wiki
The Fighter Reactive feats are:
Master of Opportunity: Slip Fighter Flat-Footed if Target has Opportunity
Master of Opportunity: Stand Still Fighter Slowed if Target has Opportunity
Master of Opportunity: Stop Fighter Interrupt if Target has Opportunity
Master of Opportunity: Stumble Fighter Knockdown if Target has Opportunity
Master of Opportunity: Suffer Fighter Base Damage if Target has Opportunity
The General Reactive feats are:
Deafening Critical General Oblivious on Critical Hit
Exhausting Critical General Exhausted on Critical Hit
Sickening Critical General Afflicted on Critical Hit
Staggering Critical General Slowed on Critical Hit
Stunning Critical General Stun on Critical Hit
Tiring Critical General ?
My heavy armor melee (axe & shield) and ranged (longbow)fighter has slotted:
1-Exhausting Critical
2-Staggering Critical
As I learn more about the axe and longbow feats, it seems that Chop & Half-Draw (Effect: Interrupts), Pinpoint Targeting (Effect: Slowed) and Hack & Overdraw (Effect: Flat-Footed) could use a better choice of reactive feats.
There are 11 options to choose, and 2 I can slot (or take more and re-slot as needed?). What do you recommend as a better "get your XPs worth" fit? :)
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Goblin Squad Member
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Yeah clerics go hard as melee because their heals are not bad... but the real issue is that they can protectively enchant themselves and it really affects damage with nice armor on.
You'll be taking a lot of damage from like those red skeleton mobs with an archer, a skele mage, a goblin mage... like you couldn't go in on that mob solo, but you could somewhat tank it.
In terms of lesser mobs or even pvp, I think that's one of the best melee builds.
Again, until they make it so that you can't mix and match everything (or until spec is much more powerful), you may find that self healing, mild clericism will be a staple.
Level 2 buffs like divine endurance and aid make a massive difference - the 350 point self heals from lesser cure also help providing you can get them to fire off in combat. Endure elements helps a lot against Shaman types.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I didn't find how to train stunning critical ... it's dreadnaught trainer ? is there any pre-req ?
I didn't actually have it trained in the build in the video either. I pulled it from spreadsheets and have noticed not all the skills from those spreadsheets are in-game yet.
It may not be available in alpha so finding a placeholder may be advisable in the meantime.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Any experience fighters that can comment on my OP and follow ups?
Need feedback so I can better understand how to make good use of reactive feats, axes, and hammers*. Looking at tables and spreadsheets doesn't really make sense to me. :(
*I have started to research Axes, Longbows and Spears; Hammers are the next on my list.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Nightdrifter,
First, thanks for all your responses and helping me better understand the game math. I know about the spreadsheets, I just personally struggle to read and understand them (my brain doesn't absorb info in that kind of format is seems). :)
Ya, finding synergies is not a current feature.
But can you help me to learn how to read, understand, and FIND those synergies? Perhaps via PM, or in a different thread?
I have 2-3 threads asking for help/feedback on understanding weapons, feats, keywords, builds and other matters, and not much response. :(
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Nightdrifter,
First, thanks for all your responses and helping me better understand the game math. I know about the spreadsheets, I just personally struggle to read and understand them (my brain doesn't absorb info in that kind of format is seems). :)
Ya, finding synergies is not a current feature.But can you help me to learn how to read, understand, and FIND those synergies? Perhaps via PM, or in a different thread?
I have 2-3 threads asking for help/feedback on understanding weapons, feats, keywords, builds and other matters, and not much response. :(
Sure, PM me with questions.