I did a considerable amount of solo PvE and PvP in Darkfall, and if this game ends up more dangerous than Darkfall with it's kill anyone anywhere nearly consequence free / 100% loot drop and 90% of my enemies having significant statistical advantage over me... well I'll be REALLY shocked. It's one of the reasons I'm not afraid of making too many enemies. I already know what it's like to live in a game where most of the people you meet want to kill you on sight and really... it's actually kind of fun.
You can sit there and say you won't be able to solo in a PvP game, but I've been soloing without issue for 95% of my time in the alpha and I don't think it's going to get THAT much harder at any point.
Mark my words. Two skilled month one vets working together are going to be an insanely powerful force if this game shows the consistent growth they are aiming for.
And yes we will be partying with other people sometimes. But I expect we'll spend plenty of it alone or as a pair killing plenty of enemies.
If your prediction about solo PvP is true, then GW has failed in their goal for this game. I suspect they won't fail and you won't be solo'ing that much.
Also, you are making a big assumption that you will still have another month-1 player to party with 5 or even 2 years from now- regardless of your current relationship status and how that changes.
As for "consistent growth," I have a little demonstration I am putting together for you. It won't be "by the numbers;" but it will demonstrate the difference between the mental image I suspect you have in your head and the image I suspect Ryan Dancey and the GW team have in their heads.
Goblin Squad Member
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This thread is verging on the tldr.
CCP prefer "big awesome space battles" even though at 10% TIDI they are as boring as hell and all you do is lock your FC designated target and spam F1. The reason being "big awesome space battles" get good publicity.
There is a lot of solo in EVE and in losec you see more solo than anything else. Its also kinda funny to wander solo thru bluesec renter space and watch all the blue bears dockup and hide becasue there is a non-blue in system.
My thoughts on the original topic are well known. I believe there are more than enough games already that cater for churning masses of players that want to accelerate character progression to max level (becasue anything below max level is pointless) and then run around harassing each other in some pretty-pretty high graphic environment.
There is no need for yet another one.
This thread is verging on the tldr.
+1
I only read about half of it.
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CEO, Goblinworks
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The reason for big epic space battles is that it is the unique selling proposition of the game. It's the one thing you can do in EVE you cannot do in any other significant MMO - have a battle with more than 1,000 participants.
The potential for those battles drives all the rest of that game. You may never fight in one but the price you pay for virtually everything you buy on the market is affected by the fact that they happen.
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Goblin Squad Member
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One of the key things I would think would make Phaeros and The Seventh Veil attractive is the simple fact that the leadership has been active already for two and a half years. The likelihood of T7V leadership abandoning the game is virtually nil, and while we're active, Phaeros and T7V will remain true to their founding principles.
Goblinworks Executive Founder
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... I'm probably going to say it's not 75% competitive with mine since...And this is why I'd like to talk in real numbers. Perhaps someone more inclined to that type of data analysis will grace us with the answers to the questions I asked above.
If I thought that effectiveness was additive, I could start coming up with an estimate. But I don't think that two characters grouped together will typically be only twice as effective as their solo average; I think that even a dou will be incomparably better than a solo, if only because they will be able to gather T2 and T3 nodes, handle spawns, and detect and defeat and/or repel hostile players that a solo player could not at all. It's not just a matter of faster, it's a matter of covering more bases.
What is the thing that you would want to signify with numbers?
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Goblin Squad Member
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I think that even a dou will be incomparably better than a solo, if only because they will be able to gather T2 and T3 nodes, handle spawns, and detect and defeat and/or repel hostile players that a solo player could not at all.
Yes. I imagine it will be a very long time before a single player can have the same result as (say) a fighter and a cleric that have each specialized in harvesting one or two resource types.
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Goblin Squad Member
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What is the thing that you would want to signify with numbers?
I will once again recommend that we utilize factual data rather than "impressions".
How much XP does it take for a Character (Adam) to "max out" their Combat Effectiveness?
How much XP does it take for a new Character (Betty) to utilize a Tier 2 Weapon and Tier 2 Armor?
What is the differential in damage output when Adam and Betty square off, when both are wearing appropriate Tier 2 Gear? And what is the differential when Adam is wearing appropriate Tier 3 Gear?
What is the thing that you would want to signify with numbers?I will once again recommend that we utilize factual data rather than "impressions".
How much XP does it take for a Character (Adam) to "max out" their Combat Effectiveness?
How much XP does it take for a new Character (Betty) to utilize a Tier 2 Weapon and Tier 2 Armor?
What is the differential in damage output when Adam and Betty square off, when both are wearing appropriate Tier 2 Gear? And what is the differential when Adam is wearing appropriate Tier 3 Gear?
I've sortof already done the first two of these. Since I already have the tables in place, I could put together a more focused example.
How many pluses on that gear? A T2 +5 item will be more effective in some aspects as compared to a T3 +0 item since the KW are matched then the difference used to determine effectiveness of abilities.
EDIT: Tell me what you want in these two characters and I will put them together. Then yall can dice words over them. Sound good?
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Goblin Squad Member
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How many pluses on that gear? A T2 +5 item will be more effective in some aspects as compared to a T3 +0 item since the KW are matched then the difference used to determine effectiveness of abilities.
EDIT: Tell me what you want in these two characters and I will put them together. Then yall can dice words over them. Sound good?
Keyword matching is built into my calculators automatically. It can be found on the wiki tab. Expendable <-> feature, armor (feat) <->armor (gear), and attack <-> weapon matching is done. Gear <-> utility matching isn't included as the spreadsheets don't include the gear yet. I'm adding some more information in those matches for v46.
So long as you match both major keywords on a T3 +0 weapon it will be more effective than any T2 weapon of the same type. You can match up to 2 major and 4 minor keywords. 1 major = 4 minor. At best that T2 can match the equivalent of 8 minors (1 major + 4 minor). The T3 with both majors is 8 or 9 (2 major + 0 or 1 minor). Plus the T3 gets the better roll.
So the only way the T2 +5 could be better than the T3 +0 is if you don't match the 2nd major keyword. It's likely the T2 is cheaper to thread as well.
(Explains stuff)
Very helpful, thank you. I need to update my tables to reflect this.
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Goblin Squad Member
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(Explains stuff)Very helpful, thank you. I need to update my tables to reflect this.
Is this correct:
Attack Level 1 1 Minor KW
Attack Level 2 2 Minor KW
Attack Level 3 3 Minor KW
Attack Level 4 3 Minor KW, 1 Major KW
Attack Level 5 4 Minor KW, 1 Major KW
Attack Level 6 4 Minor KW, 2 Major KW
Edited to correct.
I just found it in the Wiki :) But thank you!
The wiki is *very* nice, by the way.
Does armor have 2 or 3 Major KW at the final level?
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Goblin Squad Member
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Does armor have 2 or 3 Major KW at the final level?
2. The only way to get 3 major keywords is to somehow gain access to the 'Artifact' keyword which is on many things but is currently impossible to match. That impossibility is intentional and is afaik just the devs thinking ahead for the possibility of making gear better than T3.
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Goblin Squad Member
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How many pluses on that gear? A T2 +5 item will be more effective in some aspects as compared to a T3 +0 item since the KW are matched then the difference used to determine effectiveness of abilities.What is the differential in damage output when Adam and Betty square off, when both are wearing appropriate Tier 2 Gear? And what is the differential when Adam is wearing appropriate Tier 3 Gear?
I mean when both are using Tier 2 Gear that they can fully utilize.
How many pluses on that gear? A T2 +5 item will be more effective in some aspects as compared to a T3 +0 item since the KW are matched then the difference used to determine effectiveness of abilities.What is the differential in damage output when Adam and Betty square off, when both are wearing appropriate Tier 2 Gear? And what is the differential when Adam is wearing appropriate Tier 3 Gear?
I mean when both are using Tier 2 Gear that they can fully utilize.
Got it. If I understand the system correctly, Adam, with his "Maxed out" combat effectiveness, will have Level 6 attacks, which means he could use +5 T2 items to full effect. Betty, on the other, being just over the threshold, could only make full use of +2 T2 items with her Level 4 attacks. Is that the correct and is that the comparison you want to make?
Farfignuggen. That's for weapons and attacks. For Armor it would be.... the same, actually.
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Goblin Squad Member
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How many pluses on that gear? A T2 +5 item will be more effective in some aspects as compared to a T3 +0 item since the KW are matched then the difference used to determine effectiveness of abilities.What is the differential in damage output when Adam and Betty square off, when both are wearing appropriate Tier 2 Gear? And what is the differential when Adam is wearing appropriate Tier 3 Gear?
I mean when both are using Tier 2 Gear that they can fully utilize.
I addressed this above. My comments apply to both increase in base damage due to additional keywords and increase in Effect Power (ie. secondary effects) due to additional keywords.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Sorry for screwing up the quote tags, folks.
If I understand the system correctly, Adam, with his "Maxed out" combat effectiveness, will have Level 6 attacks, which means he could use +5 T2 items to full effect.
I'm somewhat curious about the additional case where, as is currently the case, a T2 +5 is no more effective than a T2 +3.
I addressed this above. My comments apply to both increase in base damage due to additional keywords and increase in Effect Power (ie. secondary effects) due to additional keywords.
I'm not seeing an easy way to parse your comments above into simple comparisons.
I'm looking for something like "In case N, Adam's max damage is X, Betty's is Y, which shows that Betty is Z% as effective as Adam".
Sorry for screwing up the quote tags, folks.
If I understand the system correctly, Adam, with his "Maxed out" combat effectiveness, will have Level 6 attacks, which means he could use +5 T2 items to full effect.I'm somewhat curious about the additional case where, as is currently the case, a T2 +5 is no more effective than a T2 +3.
I think the best thing to do is to do 4 comparisons:
1. Adam and Betty use identical gear, with Betty's abilities being the common denominator.
2. Adam uses full +5 T2 gear to take full advantage of his feats.
3. Adam uses +0 T3 gear
4. Adam uses +5 T3 gear
That would cover a wide range of options and allow us to compare between different outfits for Adam as well.
That's a lot of comparisons, but I think we can do it.
I am emailing Nihimon what Betty's feats would look like, after taking into account Ability Score requirements. She can neatly meet them all with careful timing and the addition of full training in Shield attacks.
I'm building out both characters as Heavy Weapon Melee Fighters with fully developed Bow attacks and only 1 Skill (Stealth). Adding Perception to Adam would blow up his training time due to the need to meet the 24 Wisdom requirement. I could add Perception but only take it up as high as his final Wisdom score will allow (Probably only Perception 8 or 9)
Is it reasonable to expect Adam's player to invest the literally hundreds of hours in grinding the Subterfuge points required for Level 20 Stealth? Of course, if he does this, then he can also get Reflex 10, so there is some nice synergy there.
I'll give him the 22 Divine points needed for Will 4 since he would reasonably have killed a boatload of skeletons somewhere along in his career.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Sorry for screwing up the quote tags, folks.
If I understand the system correctly, Adam, with his "Maxed out" combat effectiveness, will have Level 6 attacks, which means he could use +5 T2 items to full effect.I'm somewhat curious about the additional case where, as is currently the case, a T2 +5 is no more effective than a T2 +3.
I addressed this above. My comments apply to both increase in base damage due to additional keywords and increase in Effect Power (ie. secondary effects) due to additional keywords.I'm not seeing an easy way to parse your comments above into simple comparisons.
I'm looking for something like "In case N, Adam's max damage is X, Betty's is Y, which shows that Betty is Z% as effective as Adam".
Are you looking for how much more damage A does than B based on matched keywords?
If so, that's really easy.
An attack advances in keywords as such: minor (1), minor (2), minor (3), major (4), minor (5), major (6). Number in brackets is the level of the attack and the keywords are cumulative.
The first major is Masterwork and corresponds to T2. You need to match this to get the better roll. The second major needs to be matched to get the T3 roll.
You can match at most 4 minors and 2 majors. Not counting the better rolls from matching majors one major is worth 4 minors.
A weapon has 0/1/2 major keywords on it depending on tier. #Major = tier-1
It may or may not have some special keywords (silver, cold iron, etc) which are needed against certain enemies. If you don't have those special keywords then you do less damage against that enemy. It's never been stated how much less. However, those special keywords don't add any effectiveness outside of not having your damage reduced against specific enemy types.
A weapon has a number of minor keywords based on it's 'plus'. For +0/+1/+2/+3 it's 1/2/3/4 respectively. Not clear yet how many more you get with +4/+5. Regardless, when matched against an attack it's only possible to match at most 4 minors (and up to 2 majors) since even a level 6 attack has 4 minors.
Think of matching as just how many you have in common, with majors counting 4 times.
Maximum damage you can do is:
f*(b-r)
f = damage factor, displayed on the attack tooltip
b = base damage
r = target's relevant resistance (eg. if it's physical damage, use their physical resistance. if it's fire, then use fire resistance, etc.)
To calculate base damage:
b = 40 + 5 per matched minor (max 4) + 20 per matched major (max 2)
Since you pretty much always match at least 1 minor base damage ranges from 45-100. This can be increased:
*if the attack lists penetrating in the attack effects - not to be confused with the penetrating keyword! - then it effectively increases b by 0.1*r.
*if sneak attack applies add 10 to b. Unclear yet if this 10 ever goes up.
*fighter role features (eg. bow specialization) also add to b.
In the case of expendables there is no such thing as major keywords. Instead expendables can match up to 9 souped up minor keywords. They get 1 minor per level and these are matched against your class feature. In that case:
b = 40 + 7 per matched expendable keyword (max 9)
You don't always do max damage. Your damage is based on your roll (min/middle/max of 3d200 depending on tier) + attack bonus vs. relevant defense (ref/fort/will). If the roll is high enough then you do max. Otherwise you do max damage scaled down by 6.3%*x where x is the square root of how much you missed by. So adding attack bonus increases your average damage by making it so that you get max damage more often and when you miss you miss by less and hence do more damage on that miss. Attack bonus does not affect your max damage. For reference when dealing with an equally matched opponent you do ~82%/~82%/~85% of max damage on average depending on tier. Equally matched means that your target has 50/100/150 more defense than your attack bonus depending on tier. If your attack bonus badly outmatches the target's defense you'll do close to 100% of max damage on average and if you're badly outclassed you'll do far less.
In the case of dots (afflicted, burning, etc.) your dot is also scaled down if you don't get max damage. It's scaled down in the same way, but with a tweak. Instead of calculating how much you missed by based on the target's defense you instead treat the target's defense as if it were increased by their relevant resistance. Eg. You add fire resistance to their reflex if it's a fire attack against reflex. So dots get scaled down a bit more than attacks when missing.
Dots have a stack size (eg. Burning 15) displayed in the attack tooltip. That is the number scaled down. That size is reduced each round (6 seconds) by the target's recovery. Recovery starts at 10 and increases based on training recovery bonus and matching armor keywords.
Attacks also have secondary effects on them. Eg. stunned for 4 seconds. That 4 seconds gets reduced the same way damage does when missing. But it also gets increased/reduced based on Effect Power and Effect Protection.
Effect Power = number of matched keywords on attack
Effect Protection = number of matched keywords on target's armor
In the case of expendables:
Effect Power = 1.4*number of matched keywords on expendable, rounded down.
Then take Effect Power minus Effect Protection. Essentially it's just the difference in the number of matched keywords (majors counting 4 times). So 4 matched vs. 3 matched is 4-3 = 1. (For expendables you'd multiply that 4 by 1.4 and round down before subtracting 3.) Take that difference and multiply by 10% to get how much those secondary effects are scaled up or down. So in this case the 4 second stun becomes 4.4 seconds. Don't forget to also scale due to missing (see above).
I think Stephen has hinted that if an effect is scaled down by 30% or more it gets reduced to a lesser effect. Eg. stun reduced by 30% becomes immobilize instead with whatever the duration is scaled down to.
Now, let's return to comparing damage of two attackers. We'll assume Alice and Bob both attack the same target and use the same attack and have the same attack bonus. The only difference is in the number of keywords they've matched. They're using T2 and Alice matches 3 minors and Bob matches 1 minor. Both match the major. It doesn't matter what the 'plus' of the weapon or the level of the attack is. What matters is the number of matched keywords.
So Alice's base damage is: 40+20(matched major)+3*5(3 matched minors)=75
Bob's is: 40+20+5=65
So you might be tempted to say that Alice is 75/65~1.15 as good as Bob. But that's not correct unless the target has 0 resistance. Since we're simplifying and assuming they're using the same attack they're facing the same resistance. Let's say it's 20. Assuming they have attack bonuses comparable to their target's defense then their average damages are:
0.82*f*(75-20) and 0.82*f*(65-20)
Taking the ratio gives:
(75-20)/(65-20)=55/45~1.22
So really Alice is 22% better against that target than Bob. Let me emphasize that how much better is very target dependent. If I had instead said that they faced 25 resistance that ratio would be different. All stats are relative!
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Goblin Squad Member
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Continuing the above example to show an example of Effect Power. Alice matched 1 major + 3 minors, so effectively 7 matches (1 major=4 minors). Bob matched 1 major + 1 minor, so 5.
So Alice has 7 Effect Power and Bob has 5.
Let's say that target had a major and 2 minors matched on his armor. So that's 6 matches, ie. 6 Effect Protection.
7-6=1, so Alice's secondary effects are increased by 10%. So 4 second stuns become 4.4 seconds, but since those are scaled down by misses (which in the above case is 82% of max on average) those stuns last on average 3.6 seconds.
In Bob's case: 5-6=-1, so his are reduced by 10%. So 3.6 seconds, but that's also (on average) scaled down to 82% for misses, so really his are ~2.95 seconds.
But in the case of cc effects the target gains temporary bonuses. These are Freedom and Mind Blank. You get these bonuses after being cc'ed. I'm not sure of duration. They go away over time, but feats like Bravery make them last longer. These bonuses are treated like the target having higher defense for purposes of secondary effects only. So 150 reflex and 17 Freedom means 150 defense against an attack that is against reflex, but 167 against the secondary effects.
It's not completely spelled which cc's are affected by Freedom and Mind Blank. It's possible to guess, but a comprehensive list would be nice. Also, duration of those bonuses, how fast they decay and how big the bonuses are isn't yet known in all cases.
So really the above average durations of stuns only applies to the first attack. After that the target gets a bonus versus those stuns so that average duration goes down. Eventually the target will get a large enough bonus that the stun will be treated as missing by over 30% all the time (see previous post) and will become immobilize instead. And if spammed enough that immobilize becomes nothing.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Are you looking for how much more damage A does than B based on matched keywords?
What I'm really looking for is:
1. How much XP does Adam spend to "max out"?
2. How much XP (minimum) does Betty spend to be able to utilize a Tier 2 Weapon with 6 weapon-appropriate Attacks, and Tier 2 Armor?
3. How much more damage is Adam likely to do in Tier 2 Gear vs. Betty in Tier 2 Gear, when Adam and Betty are fighting each other?
4. How much more damage is Adam likely to do in Tier 3 Gear vs. Betty in Tier 2 Gear, when Adam and Betty are fighting each other?
So really Alice is 22% better against that target than Bob.
I'm not sure this scenario is really the one I'm interested in, but I'll note that this is well inside the 75% effectiveness Andius cited as acceptable (where Alice is 33% better than Bob).
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Goblin Squad Member
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Are you looking for how much more damage A does than B based on matched keywords?What I'm really looking for is:
1. How much XP does Adam spend to "max out"?
2. How much XP (minimum) does Betty spend to be able to utilize a Tier 2 Weapon with 6 weapon-appropriate Attacks, and Tier 2 Armor?
3. How much more damage is Adam likely to do in Tier 2 Gear vs. Betty in Tier 2 Gear, when Adam and Betty are fighting each other?
4. How much more damage is Adam likely to do in Tier 3 Gear vs. Betty in Tier 2 Gear, when Adam and Betty are fighting each other?
So really Alice is 22% better against that target than Bob.I'm not sure this scenario is really the one I'm interested in, but I'll note that this is well inside the 75% effectiveness Andius cited as acceptable (where Alice is 33% better than Bob).
Going to be lazy with 1 and 2 and tell you to use my calculators (specifically the training tab) to answer those for yourself ;).
3. The phrasing here doesn't make much sense. You have both in T2 gear (which has a wide range in # of matched keywords) and ask how much more damage one does than the other? Well, if they're clones the answer is 0.
But if I instead assume that they're fighters in heavy armor and one has 5 matches (1 major + 1 minor) on armor and 5 on weapon while the other has 8 matches (1 major + 4 minor) on each. We'll need the resistance from heavy armor, which iirc is 25+2 per match.
Then the ratio of their damage against eachother is:
(40+8*5-25-5*2)/(40+5*5-25-8*2)=(80-35)/(65-41)=45/24=1.875
But, one thing that the 8 match has in their favor is also that you get hp based on # matches as well, so that ratio gets pushed closer to 2. Adding fighter features tweaks that slightly. I've said it for a long time: the power curve isn't as flat as people think.
4. I know I've answered this one in some form a while back, but if we assume maxed out T3 vs maxed out T2 in heavy armor:
First off, assuming other feats are roughly matched meaning that if the T3 were instead in T2 they'd have identical stats then the T3 will do ~96.5% of max damage against the T2 while the T2 will do ~60.5% of max damage against the T3.
Ratio of damage is:
0.965*(40+12*5-25-8*2)/0.605*(40+8*5-25-12*2)=0.965*(100-41)/0.605*(80-49)= 0.965*59/0.605*31~3.035
Again that left out fighter features (minor tweak down in the ratio), but also extra hp from armor matching (bigger tweak upwards).
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Goblin Squad Member
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I'll generate a number that's actually calculable: how much stamina will Alice expend to kill Bob when he is AFK, and how much stamina would Bob spend to kill Alice if she was AFK?
Very easy to find if just spamming a single attack. A little trickier if using rotations.
For a single attack calculate damage (see above for how) and divide by stamina cost of the attack. This gives d/s, the target dependent stamina efficiency (d=average damage, s=stamina cost). Currently my calculators display this value when matching weapon to attack keywords on the wiki tab, but it's only calculated for r=0. Have added user specified r to the todo list.
Number attacks to kill is hp/d (hp=hit points). Total stamina used in a spam is the cost times the number of times used: s*hp/d = hp/(d/s). So it's just target's hp over stamina efficiency.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Forgot to mention: the above answer to Nihimon assumes using the same attack against eachother for both cases so that the damage factors cancel in the ratio.
As for duration of secondary effects: max T2 vs min T2 means Effect Power minus Effect Protection of 8-5=3 (so +30% duration) vs 5-8=-3 (so -30% duration). Note that when an effect is reduced below 30% of normal by this it gets reduced to a lesser effect. So if both were using attacks with 4 second stuns the one would have ~5.2*0.82 second stuns (reducing in duration after several uses due to extra defense, see a few posts up) while the other would be reduced to immobilizes only.
Because I've always wanted to use this phrase:
The durations for max T3 vs max T2 are left as an exercise for the reader.
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Goblinworks Executive Founder
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I'll generate a number that's actually calculable: how much stamina will Alice expend to kill Bob when he is AFK, and how much stamina would Bob spend to kill Alice if she was AFK?Very easy to find if just spamming a single attack. A little trickier if using rotations.
For a single attack calculate damage (see above for how) and divide by stamina cost of the attack. This gives d/s, the target dependent stamina efficiency (d=average damage, s=stamina cost). Currently my calculators display this value when matching weapon to attack keywords on the wiki tab, but it's only calculated for r=0. Have added user specified r to the todo list.
Number attacks to kill is hp/d (hp=hit points). Total stamina used in a spam is the cost times the number of times used: s*hp/d = hp/(d/s). So it's just target's hp over stamina efficiency.
Reasonable simplification: find the damage and stamina cost of one cycle of the rotation, and use that as if it were infinitely divisible. Things get much more complicated when cooldowns longer than the time it takes to regenerate stamina come in; at that point, chafe the value being measured from stamina to time, and reevaluate using Time To Kill rather than Stamina To Kill.
To figure STK, we need to know attack-defense bonuses, base damage and rotation of the attacker, and resistances, and Recovery of the defender among other basic information. I'll start a spreadsheet that outputs my number over the weekend.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Dots are certainly tricky as their # of stacks scales with how much damage you do on a given hit and the target's recovery subtracts from that each round. A low roll and the dots may be cleared, but a series of high rolls might mean continually stacking up. I may end up just doing a simple monte carlo to get a good feel for how the number of stacks scales with attack, defense, and recovery bonus.
One measure I've been occasionally using for attacks (in commented out code in the calculators) is damage/t where t = max(cooldown, casting time, stamina/10*). Essentially it's the time between when any given attack can be cycled indefinitely. As part of a rotation it's more complex.
*stamina comes back a 1/0.1s, so 10 stamina is equivalent to 1s
I have some standalone code for simple rotations to see how long it takes to do x damage based on upfront damage (no secondary effects) of attacks...though I may have left it in a non-functional state. Basically it was "here's a bunch of rotations and I'll keep track of stamina at all times. Which one deals x damage in the shortest time?". Adding that code along with secondary effects (including dots) is on my long term plan for the calculators.
The tricky part is getting the code to recognize secondary effects automatically. Right now I have some behind the scenes code which automatically finds things like "Distressed (25% chance) for 1 round", but haven't spent the time needed to get the code to actually understand what that means.