Is there a way to reduce someones saves?

[alexperience]

is there a way to make someone take a penalty on saves so that they have a greater chance of failing saves?

*Other than Bestow Curse*

Thanks

[KestrelZ]

Draining attacks on the stats that support a save (dex, con, will).

Antimagic field to remove magical enhancements, such as cloak of resistance.

[LazarX]

Inflicting tons of conditions on them, depending on what save you're targeting.

[Petty Alchemy]

There are, and Intimidate to cause Shaken is one of the most basic ways.

Void Wizards are great at this, as is anyone with the Madness Domain. Alternatively, making them roll twice and take the worse result with something like Misfortune (Witch hex), Ill Omen (lvl 1 spell, best if cast by a familiar with a wand), or Idiot Strike (Harrow Warden archetype monk)

[Adahn_Cielo]

The poster child for reducing saves is the Evil Eye hex, that works wonderful in tandem with misfortune.

There's the order of the staff cavalier too, I think, and a feat in the ACG(can't remember the name, but I think it required arcane strike.).

EDIT:Riving strike, that's the name!

[deusvult]

The clerical Curse Subdomain (of Luck) is about the best save penalty ability I can think of. Barring the "roll multiple dice and take worst" abilities out there, of course.

[BretI]

Cleric:
Bane: -1 save vs fear
Doom: Causes Shaken which gives -2 on saves
Chaos Hammer: Slows which gives -1 Reflex save

Wizard/Sorc
Touch of Idiocy: -1d6 to Wis/Int/Cha. Wis feeds Will saves.
Slow: -1 Reflex saves
Crushing Despair: -2 all saves
Mind Fog: -10 Will saves

There are others, all of these are CRB.

[Kolokotroni]

Any method that applies the sickened condition also reduces saves.

[AlaskaRPGer]

Enervation

[Slithery D]

Limited Wish can give a -7 to the next save if it beats SR.

[kinevon]

Pugwampis have an unluck aura, which is one of the roll twice, take the worst roll effects. There are some things that can make one immune to this aura, though.

[Rynjin]

There are far too many to list. Anything that reduces save governing stats. Specific abilities that reduce saves. Abilities that impose penalties to d20 rolls in general. Many conditions. The list goes on.

[Nephril]

look through all the conditions that is the best way to do it. sickened shaken exhausted all put penalties. entangled also does just look at anything that reduces a stat or exclusively says it effects saves. evil eye from a witch with cackle is a great one to chain debuff a champion.

[Kimera757]

AlaskaRPGer wrote:

Enervation

This is the best answer in the thread. Enervation doesn't allow a saving throw (it's a ray) ... and the negative levels it inflicts stack.

[born_of_fire]

Halfling Jinx

[Wiggz]

alexperience wrote:

is there a way to make someone take a penalty on saves so that they have a greater chance of failing saves?

*Other than Bestow Curse*

Thanks

As mentioned, conditions like Sickened, Fatigued, Exhausted, etc. will reduce saves.

A number of class features and abilities will also reduce saves - too many to mention, probably, but my favorite is the Madness Domain power Visions of Madness. Its probably the most potent and versatile buff/de-buff in the game. A similar ability for Wizards is the Void Mage's Reveal Weakness ability. Both will floor saves pretty quickly.

[blahpers]

alexperience wrote:

*Other than Bestow Curse*

(my reaction)

[Renegadeshepherd]

Heresy inquisition has a dumbed down version of bestow curse that stacks with these mentioned above.

[Magda Luckbender]

A Dual Cursed Oracle with the Oracle's misfortune hex can force a foe to re-roll a save D20.

Really, there are too many ways to name them all.

[Nicos]

3 levels in thug (rogue archetype) allow to stack shak (corgunon smash) and sciken for a -4 to saves.

[lemeres]

kinevon wrote:

Pugwampis have an unluck aura, which is one of the roll twice, take the worst roll effects. There are some things that can make one immune to this aura, though.

Oh yes, a 45' circle of what is basically an AoE, no save misforune hex.

And that is the secret gem in the first worlder archetype for summoners. In return for giving your eidolon half the BAB and terrible hit dice (as well as downgrading their SLA to summon nature's allies), you get the additional option to summon pugwampis with SNA II. Just think of yourself as a one (very good) trick witch, and spread the pugwampis over the battlefield for max coverage.

The beauty of summoning these weak little things is that they are so weak (6 hp!). That is interesting, since the GM knows how much trouble they are trouble. Think of them less as combatants, and more like nodes that help you spread a nasty debuff. Let the enemies waste their time chasing the little mutts around the battlefield (and laugh when they end up rolling 1's on attack rolls, since that is debuffed too). Meanwhile, your barbarian is picking them off one by one and your wizard is preparing some nasty Save or Die spells that have WAY better chances with unluck going about.

But don't be surprised if your GM later has the pugwampis join up with Tucker's Kobolds in a different game.

[666bender]

Nicos wrote:

3 levels in thug (rogue archetype) allow to stack shak (corgunon smash) and sciken for a -4 to saves.

Add frostbite with rime for fatigue and entangle - and opponent will cry .

[Marius Castille]

Prayer. Slight buff for allies, slight debuff for enemies.

[lemeres]

Adahn_Cielo wrote:

The poster child for reducing saves is the Evil Eye hex, that works wonderful in tandem with misfortune.

There's the order of the staff cavalier too, I think, and a feat in the ACG(can't remember the name, but I think it required arcane strike.).

EDIT:Riving strike, that's the name!

I think I am just going to leave this link to the text for Riving Strike

It is rather good. It pretty much the same -2 that evil eye does, and all you have to do is use arcane strike and smack the enemy once for them to be debuffed for a round.

So a decent debuff that requires no extra actions as long as you just do whatever attack you were planning anyway. No saves either. And it appears to work on bows.

I never really took much advantage of this, so I am unsure about it, but aren't you allowed to spread your full attack's attacks over multiple enemies? This looks like it might have some interesting applications.....

[Cthulhudrew]

Cast Polymorph PC to Commoner

[Kthulhu]

Step 1: Be a witch
Step 2: Misfortune
Step 3: Cackle
Step 4: Enervation
Step 5: GOTO Step 3