I agree Traianus Decius Aureus. Most games require you to stand still to get off anything more than a quick medium-damage shot. However, they have ability timers so you're not rooted AFTER, but have to stand still before. I would MUCH prefer that. The combat system seems to be lacking ability timers such that all abilities go off instantly. The cool-downs used in most games are covered by stamina cost, but the ability timers are still missing. I think that alone would solve this. A few shots could be instant (low power, low stamina abilities), a few could have 1 second timers (have to stand still for 1 second to get the shot off or the ability is interrupted), and things like Overdraw could have 2 second timers (have to stand still for 2 seconds to get the shot off or the ability is interrupted.
Goblin Squad Member
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
The combat system seems to be lacking ability timers such that all abilities go off instantly.
The Combat system in PFO allows for the possibility of virtually any Attack to get interrupted, instead of the rather simplistic systems you see in other games where only channeled spells can be interrupted.
Right now, when you begin an Attack, it takes a certain amount of time (listed as Attack Time) for the animation to play out. During that time, any counter-Attack that includes an Interrupt Effect can cause your Attack to fail. This is really, really cool.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
To be honest having tried both, I see the ability to charge in with a charge feat and whirlwind and drop large mobs in less than a second as more overpowered :D
Also archers are a one trick pony, they are likely to get left behind quickly by classes that ramp up with training like arcane and divine casters.
EDIT:
So what did I learn from this thread:
1. The issues are far greater than my limited thinking and experience could imagine (which is usually true, me being human and all).
2. Leashing is a major contributor to the problem.
3. With so many other unpolished, unimplemented or straight-up broken features in the game right now, "fixing" ranged may actually make the problems worse.
----At the very least, loot drops and the party loot systems need to be improved before we go curtailing a player's ability to solo farm.4. WE ARE STILL IN ALPHA- oops, I forgot that :)
5. Slapping stationary on all ranged attacks is a bad idea. At the very most, shortbows, wands and cleric spells should be getting slowed.
I am forgetting things, but this will do for now.
From a bit I gathered from dev comments in game it may be a bit late for people to change their minds about this as the implications are big change are afoot for ranged combat as a result of the recent fuss.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
I don't think I should be able to take on that kind of opposition alone. It's convenient for me, but it points to a flaw.I reflexively feel the same way, but I'm not sure there's going to be an easy middle ground where newbies can reasonably engage small camps of mobs, yet extremely experienced players can't solo large camps.
My point is that I'm a newbie and can take on large camps and red critters by myself. If I can do that, something needs adjusting.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
My point is that I'm a newbie and can take on large camps and red critters by myself. If I can do that, something needs adjusting.
But wasn't this a design feature of pathfinder, that a new player who specializes in a specific area like archery will be as good in that narrow area as a more balanced long-term player but suck comparatively in other areas like gathering or defence.
Also to some extent archers are meant to be glass cannon.
Thanks Edam. I've learned a lot and my stances have shifted a bit, but my general stance is the same. The issue needs to be fixed. My understanding, however, is that it will be band-aided *after* the loot and party issues are repaired. So I am still looking forward to it :)
By the way, am I branded as "that guy that got that really horrible thing you didn't like done to ranged characters" now? At any rate, I think I am going to avoid stirring up controversy in the near future (maybe... give it a week? j/k).
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
But wasn't this a design feature of pathfinder, that a new player who specializes in a specific area like archery will be as good in that narrow area as a more balanced long-term player but suck comparatively in other areas like gathering or defence.
That could be true, but I'm not specialized as an archer. I have exactly four first level feats that use the bow, and only use two of them over and over and over. I picked them up the day after I found the bow.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Part of the problem is the tougher mobs taking significant damage.
When I am on my archer, I can ignore bandit recruit archers, because they only hit for about 4 points/shot. So why are my arrows so deadly to a 'red' ogre warrior ? If their resistance scaled better, longbowmen would not be soloing 6 red + yellow ogres with ease.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
By the way, am I branded as "that guy that got that really horrible thing you didn't like done to ranged characters" now? At any rate, I think I am going to avoid stirring up controversy in the near future (maybe... give it a week? j/k).
I bet you a shiny penny you don't make it that week, sspitfire1.
At least, I've never managed it...
The combat system seems to be lacking ability timers such that all abilities go off instantly.The Combat system in PFO allows for the possibility of virtually any Attack to get interrupted, instead of the rather simplistic systems you see in other games where only channeled spells can be interrupted.
Right now, when you begin an Attack, it takes a certain amount of time (listed as Attack Time) for the animation to play out. During that time, any counter-Attack that includes an Interrupt Effect can cause your Attack to fail. This is really, really cool.
If that's how that's working, a "cast timer" should be included so that it's apparent that's what happening. Right now it just looks like the system is unresponsive. Also, if that's how the system is set up, than I'd suggest that any ability with an "attack time" of greater than 0.75 or 1.0 seconds should require you to stand still during that time. Any ability with less than 0.75 or 1.0 seconds could be cast while moving.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
If that's how that's working, a "cast timer" should be included so that it's apparent that's what happening. Right now it just looks like the system is unresponsive. Also, if that's how the system is set up, than I'd suggest that any ability with an "attack time" of greater than 0.75 or 1.0 seconds should require you to stand still during that time. Any ability with less than 0.75 or 1.0 seconds could be cast while moving.The combat system seems to be lacking ability timers such that all abilities go off instantly.The Combat system in PFO allows for the possibility of virtually any Attack to get interrupted, instead of the rather simplistic systems you see in other games where only channeled spells can be interrupted.
Right now, when you begin an Attack, it takes a certain amount of time (listed as Attack Time) for the animation to play out. During that time, any counter-Attack that includes an Interrupt Effect can cause your Attack to fail. This is really, really cool.
I would suggest .8 and under as mobile since most wand abilities are .8
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I think it would be sufficient if there were some kind of "clank" sound-effect when you got interrupted. For a number of weeks, I thought there was a bug where some Bandit Archers would occasionally become invulnerable. Ryan finally explained that I was probably just getting interrupted.