I had an idea for a build that I probably won't get to play, but I thought I'd post it anyway. The idea is to make good use of Combat Patrol, so the focus is on mobility and AoOs.
Elf Bloodrager (Aberrant)/Fighter
16/16/13/10/8/12
FCB: +1' movement
BR1: Power Attack, fast movement
BR2:
BR3: Combat Reflexes
BR4: +5' reach, +1 Con
F5: Mobility, Combat Patrol
BR6:
BR7: Iron Will, ???
So at level 5, while raging and in Combat Patrol, he has 15 feet of reach, 4 AoOs, and 45 feet of movement to maneuver in between attacks. Investing in UMD for a wand of longstrider wouldn't be a bad idea either. His main weapon is something with an 18-20 range to take advantage of the staggering strike ability from the bloodline.
Any thoughts?
I presume you're wielding a reach weapon to get out to 15'? Are there reach weapons with 18-20 crit range?
Edit: Ok, I found one weapon with both reach and 18-20 crit; the Fauchard which would take EWP.
I should have been more clear: This is using a regular non-reach weapon, but while raging, the Aberrant bloodline boosts reach by 5 feet. On top of that, Combat Patrol increases the threatened area by 5 feet, but doesn't increase actual reach. I'd have to move to intercept anyone provoking in those last 5 feet, but with 45 feet of movement, I can do that plenty.
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Combat Patrol sounds really cool, but what's it actually DO? You give up any chance for making regular attacks in order to get the potential for opportunity attacks. If the bad guys provoke.
I really don't understand the attraction.
If you really want an effective build that can lay down a 15' area of AOO control, an archer with Improved Snap Shot is what you want, although you can't take it until level 9. You still get your regular attacks, AND you get Aoo's within 15', should they provoke.
Much better action economy.
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Combat Patrol extends your threat range. So, maxed out, you get a total of 20' extended threat range and can move up to your speed to get to the target and take your AoO, off-turn. So it's like getting your full-attack with all attacks at full-BAB if they keep triggering AoOs.
That's exactly my point: you are giving up your attacks for the chance that you MIGHT make some AoOs. I don't see why that is an exciting option, unless your DM is going to spoon feed you a bunch of AoOs.
Combat Patrol sounds cool, but its a trap.
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Combat Patrol extends your threat range. So, maxed out, you get a total of 20' extended threat range and can move up to your speed to get to the target and take your AoO, off-turn. So it's like getting your full-attack with all attacks at full-BAB if they keep triggering AoOs.That's exactly my point: you are giving up your attacks for the chance that you MIGHT make some AoOs. I don't see why that is an exciting option, unless your DM is going to spoon feed you a bunch of AoOs.
Combat Patrol sounds cool, but its a trap.
Depends on the module. There are a lot of scenarios with mindless foes that have little recourse except to shamble towards you, particularly if a choke point is involved. In which case you become a whirling dervish of terror.
@OP, though: You should really pick up a reach weapon. Grab some armor spikes or something so that you can make attacks against guys that get in close in a pinch, and you can threaten an absolutely ridiculous range. Get Enlarge Person and perhaps the Long Arms spell and you'll be unapproachable! (and not JUST because your blood is infested with the tainted spirit of the aberrant elder gods)
Remember - you don't provoke if the enemy can't reach you, so feel free to try to trip people with your AoOs, and smack them when they spend a move action to stand up again.
Combat Patrol extends your threat range. So, maxed out, you get a total of 20' extended threat range and can move up to your speed to get to the target and take your AoO, off-turn. So it's like getting your full-attack with all attacks at full-BAB if they keep triggering AoOs.That's exactly my point: you are giving up your attacks for the chance that you MIGHT make some AoOs. I don't see why that is an exciting option, unless your DM is going to spoon feed you a bunch of AoOs.
Combat Patrol sounds cool, but its a trap.
Of course, getting it online 4 levels earlier than Snap Shot is one big draw. Plus, it's more cinematic to be leaping across the battlefield to make my attacks (which also lets me move my patrol area where I want each time I make an attack for better positioning, and drawing out AoOs from the bad guys if I want).
@OP, though: You should really pick up a reach weapon. Grab some armor spikes or something so that you can make attacks against guys that get in close in a pinch, and you can threaten an absolutely ridiculous range. Get Enlarge Person and perhaps the Long Arms spell and you'll be unapproachable! (and not JUST because your blood is infested with the tainted spirit of the aberrant elder gods)Remember - you don't provoke if the enemy can't reach you, so feel free to try to trip people with your AoOs, and smack them when they spend a move action to stand up again.
Tripping would be cool, but I'd be doing it with no feat support, so it may not be that effective. I think a wand of long arm in a spring-loaded wrist sheath is a good idea for a pre-combat buff. But the action economy on enlarge person (cast or potions) isn't great, unless I can get friendly casters to prep it for me.
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Tripping would be cool, but I'd be doing it with no feat support, so it may not be that effective. I think a wand of long arm in a spring-loaded wrist sheath is a good idea for a pre-combat buff. But the action economy on enlarge person (cast or potions) isn't great, unless I can get friendly casters to prep it for me.
Well, I would only recommend it against humanoid foes, particularly ones wearing heavy armor - their AC is likely to be higher than their CMD.
Also, I'm pretty sure it never takes more time than a standard action to drink a potion, even if the effects of the spell don't manifest immediately.
Tripping would be cool, but I'd be doing it with no feat support, so it may not be that effective. I think a wand of long arm in a spring-loaded wrist sheath is a good idea for a pre-combat buff. But the action economy on enlarge person (cast or potions) isn't great, unless I can get friendly casters to prep it for me.Well, I would only recommend it against humanoid foes, particularly ones wearing heavy armor - their AC is likely to be higher than their CMD.
Also, I'm pretty sure it never takes more time than a standard action to drink a potion, even if the effects of the spell don't manifest immediately.
But depending on the GM, I probably can't use the SLWS to pull out a potion, so it's a difference of a move action. But with that Accelerated Drinker trait, I could carry the potion in one hand and weapon in the other, then in the first round drink the potion of enlarge person, SLWS to get my wand, cast long arm, and have both my buffs up and weapon out, ready for AoOs with 20 feet of reach.
Hmm... *evil grin*
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But depending on the GM, I probably can't use the SLWS to pull out a potion, so it's a difference of a move action. But with that Accelerated Drinker trait, I could carry the potion in one hand and weapon in the other, then in the first round drink the potion of enlarge person, SLWS to get my wand, cast long arm, and have both my buffs up and weapon out, ready for AoOs with 20 feet of reach.
Hmm... *evil grin*
See, now you're talking! Grabbing the Aberrant Tumor feat and Improved Familiar can get you a buffing buddy, too, assuming you can have a pseudodragon or imp tumor.
Heh, a few days ago I actually started working on a character similar to this, though without Combat Patrol. He would be catfolk, and his name would be... LONGCAT!
But depending on the GM, I probably can't use the SLWS to pull out a potion, so it's a difference of a move action. But with that Accelerated Drinker trait, I could carry the potion in one hand and weapon in the other, then in the first round drink the potion of enlarge person, SLWS to get my wand, cast long arm, and have both my buffs up and weapon out, ready for AoOs with 20 feet of reach.
Hmm... *evil grin*
See, now you're talking! Grabbing the Aberrant Tumor feat and Improved Familiar can get you a buffing buddy, too, assuming you can have a pseudodragon or imp tumor.
Heh, a few days ago I actually started working on a character similar to this, though without Combat Patrol. He would be catfolk, and his name would be... LONGCAT!
I was going to call him Mr. Tickle, actually.
You know, with all the other reach-increasing tricks, I'm thinking Combat Patrol isn't really worth the two-feat investment (maybe at level 10, when it goes up to +10 feet of threatened area). So here's a new version:
Mr. Tickle
Elf Bloodrager (Aberrant)
16/16/13/10/8/12
FCB: +1 hp
Traits: Accelerated Drinker, Warrior of Old
Alt Racial Traits: Fleet-Footed
BR1: Power Attack, Run, fast movement, staggering strike
BR2: uncanny dodge
BR3: Combat Reflexes, blood sanctuary
BR4: +5' reach, +1 Con, Eschew Materials
BR5: Improved Bull Rush, improved uncanny dodge
BR6: Iron Will
BR7: Quick Bull Rush, DR 1/-
BR8: aberrant fortitude, +1 Con
BR9: Raging Vitality, Improved Initiative
BR10: DR 2/-
BR11: Greater Bull Rush, greater rage
With this version, he doesn't use a reach weapon, and instead relies on enlarge person and long arm in the opening round to increase reach to 15 feet (or 20 if raging). Improved Bull Rush lets me knock someone back so they provoke an AoO again for approaching, and Quick Bull Rush lets me do it 1/round as an AoO myself.
Alternatively, since mobility isn't as important, I can switch to a half-elf with stats of 18/15/14/8/8/12, which lets me take the human FCB for extra rage rounds, and the alternate racial trait for +2 to Will saves, along with better starting physical stats, at the cost of some Int. I could do a human for the bonus feat, but I'd like to branch out into a race I haven't played before. Hmm...
Half-elves make awesome martials. I highly recommend that.
Why do you say that?
RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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Because they're able to have +2 STR, they can get +2 to Will saves on top of the +2 against enchantments, and (though this is less relevant for a bloodrager) they can ditch their FCBs in favor of total wand access to an arcane casting class without UMD. Low-light vision and immunity to sleep is just gravy.
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If you're going half-elf, may I recommend you take Ancestral Arms to grab Sawblade Glaive (aka Ripsaw Glaive) proficiency? The only thing scarier than a monstrous half-elf with 20 foot reach is a monstrous half-elf wielding a chainsaw on a stick with 30 foot reach. (Plus, what amounts to a once per combat Weapon Specialization ain't too shabby.)
If you're going half-elf, may I recommend you take Ancestral Arms to grab Sawblade Glaive (aka Ripsaw Glaive) proficiency? The only thing scarier than a monstrous half-elf with 20 foot reach is a monstrous half-elf wielding a chainsaw on a stick with 30 foot reach. (Plus, what amounts to a once per combat Weapon Specialization ain't too shabby.)
That's... interesting. But I'm a bit wary about using a reach weapon, because that introduces a lot more complications in calculating what squares I threaten, and means I have to use armor spikes within 10 feet while enlarged.
OK, here's a refined version, using the Blood Conduit archetype to pick up Improved Trip without the prereqs, and let me deliver shocking grasps when I hit with my combat maneuvers. The big trouble is the Will saves, but oh well.
Mr. Tickle
Half-Elf Bloodrager (Aberrant)
18/15/14/8/8/12
FCB: +1 rage/skill
Traits: Accelerated Drinker, Elven Reflexes
Alt Racial Traits: Dual-Minded
BR1: Power Attack, Run, fast movement, staggering strike
BR2:
BR3: Combat Reflexes, blood sanctuary
BR4: +5' reach, +1 Con, Eschew Materials
BR5: Improved Bull Rush, spell conduit
BR6: Improved Trip
BR7: Quick Bull Rush, DR 1/-
BR8: aberrant fortitude, +1 Con
BR9: Greater Bull Rush, Iron Will
BR10: DR 2/-
BR11: Raging Vitality, greater rage
WOW... I didn't know about that archetype before. It's like Spellstrike minus the crit benefit crossed with a no-level-increase Quicken Spell. Keep in mind, though, that the Contact Specialist ability replaces Fast Movement in addition to altering bloodline feats.
Yeah, I just forgot to change it in that write-up... and just barely missed the edit window.
Mr. Tickle.. Where did you come up with that name?
Now I'm wondering what penalty a Dirty Trick to tickle would grant...
Now I'm wondering what penalty a Dirty Trick to tickle would grant...
Ooh... You better watch out!
Why use bull rush? Isn't tripping strictly better at keeping people away AND debuffing them for you and your allies? (Also, if you have Greater Trip, knocking them down creates AoOs not just for you, but for your allies as well.)
Why use bull rush? Isn't tripping strictly better at keeping people away AND debuffing them for you and your allies? (Also, if you have Greater Trip, knocking them down creates AoOs not just for you, but for your allies as well.)
But I can get Improved Trip without the prereqs from the archetype; to get Greater Trip, I'd need Combat Expertise and 13 Int, and there's just no room for it in this build.
Bull Rush gives me another trick up my sleeve, and I can use it to force back people who have made it through my gauntlet and make them start over (although I misread Quick Bull Rush at first; I can't use it on an AoO unless it's during my own turn). Do you have suggestions for what else I can use that feat for?
OK, here's a more refined version I'm working on:
Mr. Tickle
Half-Elf Bloodrager (Aberrant, Steelblooded)
17/14/14/10/10/12
FCB: +1 rage
Traits: Accelerated Drinker, (Elven Reflexes OR Opportunistic)
Alt Racial Traits: Dual-Minded
BR1: Power Attack, staggering strike, indomitable stance
BR2: armored swiftness
BR3: Combat Reflexes, blood sanctuary
BR4: +5' reach, +1 Str, Eschew Materials
BR5: Improved Bull Rush, armor training
BR6: retrain Combat Reflexes -> Greater Bull Rush, Bonus: Combat Reflexes
BR7: Quick Bull Rush, DR 1/-
BR8: aberrant fortitude, +1 Con
BR9: Raging Throw, Iron Will
BR10: DR 2/-
BR11: Improved Initiative, greater rage
So again, the schtick is to drink enlarge person and cast long arm in the opening round to get the reach on-line. The lower Dex means that while enlarge, he only gets 1 AoO, but I can make the call based on the enemies I see. If there are a lot, I can skip the enlarge. I'm still not sure if it's better to have the +2 initiative or +1 on AoOs from the trait, though.