Hello,
I have a question about the Granary entry, as defined in Kingdom-building rules (excerpt from d20pfsrd): "If Farms reduce Consumption below 0, store up to 5 BP of excess production for use on a later turn when Consumption exceeds the Treasury"
I wonder what it means. Is the stored grain kept until my Treasury falls in the negative (which could happen years later), or is it available to feed next turn's Consumption?
I think the latter might be RAI and the former is RAW. Thoughts?
What Diego said.
Remember that the rules are a massive abstraction and don't represent every single action taken by the citizens of the kingdom.
So, for simplicity's sake, just assume that excess negative consumption stored in granaries is stored indefinitely until needed.
I understand. I just wondered why the stored food was used only when running out of money (treasury). If the granary's content is useable when food is actually needed, wouldn't it be better to write "when Consumption becomes positive again"?
I mean, I have this full granary and I have to feed my armies with my treasury and only use the granary when I run out of cash? (I know "treasury" is not cash but the picture stays as such in my mind).
The opposite is equally strange and unrealistic: I can use a full granary to construct buildings. As written, the 5 BP is "for use on a later turn", not saying how or how much. Can I empty all granaries as soon as my Consumption exceeds my Treasury (which can happen just after constructing a building but before taxes)?
Anyway, as it's an abstraction, I'll simply rename granary as "Fort Knox" in my head and go with that.
You cannot use the BP stored in the Granary to construct buildings. The rules state it can only be used when consumption exceeds your treasury. That occurs in the upkeep phase.
Farms+fisheries - consumption = value.
If value is negative then you must pay for it out of your treasury.
If you do not have enough in your treasury you can cover it with your Granary.
Frankly, they worded it badly. It should be used whenever consumption exceeds food.
Frankly, they worded it badly. It should be used whenever consumption exceeds food.
I agree with you. And they should have explained how as well: to fill the difference between food and consumption.
You cannot use the BP stored in the Granary to construct buildings. The rules state it can only be used when consumption exceeds your treasury. That occurs in the upkeep phase.
They don't mention that it occurs in the Upkeep phase. Example:
- I have 8 BP in my Treasury, and a Consumption of 7.- I build a House (3 BP). My Treasury is now 5 BP, and my Consumption is still 7.
=> My "Consumption exceeds my Treasury", so I can "use" the stored BP.
The question is: how? Since it's not written, anyone can assume that the stored BP go into the Treasury (since it's relative to the condition).
Farms+fisheries - consumption = value.
If value is negative then you must pay for it out of your treasury.
If you do not have enough in your treasury you can cover it with your Granary.
Same as before: they don't mention that you "use" the stored BP to "cover" the difference between Consumption and Treasury. As written, you can "use" all stored BP as soon as the condition (Consumption>Treasury) applies.
I agree that I'm nitpicking at poorly-written rules. I also agree that they made a tremendous job of massively abstracting a superset of an already complicated game. Still, there are things that deserve an erratum or two...
It has to occur during upkeep.
You pay consumption during the upkeep phase. If consumption exceeds the treasury, stored BP in granaries can be used. It doesn't matter what happens after that in the turn, because pay consumption happens immediately after you check stability.
To use your example:
You have 8 BP, consumption 7.
During upkeep, you pay consumption. Treasury now has 1 BP.
Can you still build the house?
No. Even though consumption now exceeds treasury, it is clear that the intent of the granary is to pay consumption when consumption exceeds treasury.
The bookkeeping has been simplified.
Personally, I would run it as:
Upkeep phase, pay consumption: 8BP in treasury, 7 consumption, 5BP in granary. Use 5BP from granary and 2 from treasury. Test: did farms exceed consumption? No (because if they did, you wouldn't have a positive consumption figure). End result: treasury 6BP, consumption 7, granary 0BP.
Next step of upkeep phase.
Louix X, as Chemlak stated the granary only applies to the Upkeep phase.
Step 2—Pay Consumption: Subtract your kingdom’s Consumption from the kingdom’s Treasury. If your Treasury is negative after paying Consumption, Unrest increases by 2.
Special If Farms reduce Consumption below 0, store up to 5 BP of excess production for use on a later turn when Consumption exceeds the Treasury
The only time consumption is checked is during the Upkeep phase. It is not checked at any other point and as a result you cannot use the Granary at any other point.
Your reading is clearly not the intent and is not even RAW when context (the upkeep rules) is applied.
I understand you when you mention that RAI is that Consumption is "checked" during Upkeep. However, this is not mentioned in the Granary description: it doesn't say "when your Consumption is checked" or anything regarding Upkeep. It says "when Consumption exceeds Treasury". Much like the Economy score, Consumption is a figure that can change at any point during a kingdom turn (such as when building a Farm, or a Stockyard). And the Treasury changes at several points during the turn as well. Since the condition is Consumption>Treasury, any change in those two figures can result in "using" the Granary's content. As written.
I also agree with you that it has to be during upkeep. This is a vote for the devs to put an errata on things. How do we do this, by the way?
You hit the FAQ link. However, I don't think you will get many FAQ votes. The meaning here is pretty obvious and even if there were enough FAQ votes the Devs don't really FAQ things when the meaning is obvious.
Now, what really *should* be FAQd is that the rule requires your treasury to be used to pay for food before you use the Granary (whenever consumption exceeds treasury). It should instead allow you to use the Granary before you use your Treasury (whenever consumption exceeds food supply from farms/fisheries). However, since this will only be used in home games and not PFS games it is not really important. I can house rule it for home games.