I look at the feats, and just get really sad at what is offered. Whirlwind attack looks like it could be cool, but it's situational and involves combat expertise, int 13, spring attack, mobility, and dodge.. that's a real bad time.
Cleave I find to be terrible, because it's also situational.
Step up feats I was originally going to take, but I've decided that they are just super terrible.
Please, suggest things to me with what I have laid out in order to make something cool and worthwhile.
Human Two-Handed Fighter
STR: 20 (+2 human)
Dex: 16
Con: 11
Int: 7
Wis: 10
Cha: 7
Weapon of choice is the Nodachi
Armor of choice will be Mithral Breast Plate
Feats I have roughly planned out
1. Weapon Focus (Nodachi), Power Attack, Combat Reflexes
2. ???
3. ???
4. Weapon Specialization
5. ???
6. Lunge
7. ???
8. Improved Critical
9. ???
10. ???
11. ???
I briefly thought of two levels of brawler and attempting to play a Dirty Trick character, but that move action to negate everything is demoralizing for it.
Shatter Defenses route seems lame too, and I've had issues trying to use social skills in PFS.
Maybe someone can suggest how to build a strong character built around making 1 attack with Vital Strike/Overhand Chop?
Suggestions, please.
Ssalarn, I just fixed the mistake. I too often write "Weapon" accidentally instead of "handed".
Personally, I think your stat spread is too skewed. Having a 20 Strength seems cool and all, but it comes at the cost of Con and all three of your mental stats. I know PFS is generally pretty dungeon crawl oriented, but you're still going to have a hard time if anyone hits you with anything involving a saving throw. A fighter isn't going to be lacking in bonuses to hit/damage, so I'd probably even your stats out a bit.
For feats, Furious Focus is a must have. I'm not sure about PFS availability, but Horn of the Cryosphinx is also a pretty solid option. You could combine it with Dragon Style to be able to charge across difficult terrain and hit a dude really hard.
The fighter is a terrible class to begin with, but I'm perfectly fine with my ability score layout, but I appreciate your concerns.
The archetype has overhand chop, which by RAW reads to do ridiculous damage, but RAI it pretty much does what Horn of the Cryosphinx does except I don't need to charge to activate it. I personally don't like to charge due to the -2 AC penalty, so I don't think I'm too interested in these feats, but I definitely didn't consider them before.
I was thinking about Crane Style feats, then I remembered Wing got nerfed, and you need a free hand to gain the benefits of the later feats.
You could also invest in feats to bump up to compensate for the stat spread a bit. Toughness and Iron Will are solid investments themselves, since two-handed weapon fighting is relatively feat-light in requirements.
The Step Up line is also decent, since full-attack actions become that much more potent at 7, so making sure you can stick to your target is a good idea.
I'm not about that toughness, or iron will life. I originally was going for step up chain, but 3 feats with one being a +6 bab to spend an immediate action to follow up and swing seems awful to me. I can spend on the feats on other chains and get better benefits.
I'm pretty upset that Whirlwind attack includes combat expertise and spring attack, otherwise I would probably try it out for once.
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Two Handed Fighters can be nasty.
A few suggestions:
Heavy Armor. Even with Mithral Breastplate, you're going to be easy to hit at most levels, especially when everything sees how much damage you do and wants you dead. Make up for the slow speed with items or buffs.
I recommend more Con. You will want HP.
Step Up is a great feat. I recommend you reconsider: Discussion Thread
Following Step is very useful too. I don't recommend Step Up and Strike.
Suggested Feats:
1. Weapon Focus, Power Attack, Combat Reflexes
2. Toughness
3. Improved Initiative
4. Weapon Specialization
5. Lunge
6. Furious Focus
7. Step Up
8. Improved Critical
9. Iron Will
10. Greater Weapon Focus
11. Greater Iron Will or Following Step
12. Greater Weapon Specialization
Or maybe:
1. Weapon Focus, Power Attack, Combat Reflexes
2. Dodge
3. Mobility
4. Weapon Specialization
5. Combat patrol
6. Lunge
7. Furious Focus
8. Improved Critical
9. Step Up
10. Greater Weapon Focus
11. Improved Initiative
12. Greater Weapon Specialization
What's your suggestion for step up build? I have always considered certain aspects of the metagame, but overlooked how the metagame could be in my benefit at times.
I've always wanted to use combat patrol, but I feel the metagame would completely ruin it.
Using following step seems way too dangerous, and perhaps not taking step up and strike might make it seem less awful.
Heavy armor is so expensive especially when you want to use dex with mithral. The speed reduction is something I've always seen as crippling and that's why I prefer mithral bp over all other armor (kikko for dex builds). I really want the extra damage from Overhand chop, but armor training actually seems worth taking in order to survive.
I don't like whirlwind bit I do like Spring Attack. It's a great way to attack larger creatures with reach and setup flanking with your allies.
I would also consider normal fighter instead of THF. You'll make good use of armor training and save thousands of gold on not needing Mithril.
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The trade-offs for the Fighter archetypes are tough choices. Armor Training is surprisingly useful; just weigh how much you want the extra damage and class abilities vs. the advantages of vanilla fighter.
IMO, it's all about preference and play style. Both approaches can be very strong if you want to swing a big weapon around.
Not sure what you mean by the metagame ruining Combat Patrol.
It takes a hefty investment to get and is best used with a reach weapon. It's a defensive tactic, but can be nasty if you have plenty of Dex. At low levels it can net you a lot more attacks than you would normally get, given the right circumstances.
Step Up isn't really something you build a character around. It's 'an extra tool in the toolbox.' If you read that discussion I linked to, you will see a lot of good ideas for how/when it's useful.
It's not meta. The feat just gives you the ability to react to enemies more quickly.
Following Step is a lot stronger than it looks at first. The movement is free, unlike Step Up which consumes your 5' step. Moving 10' as an immediate action is a huge deal.
Step Up and Strike isn't really awesome unless you have tons of AOOs available and you find that you're using Step Up a lot in your campaign.
RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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Whirlwind attack looks like it could be cool, but it's situational and involves combat expertise, int 13, spring attack, mobility, and dodge.. that's a real bad time.
If memory serves, a 1-level dip into Brawler (from the ACG) will give let you qualify for combat feats as though you had 13 INT. (Plus you get other goodies like save boosts, IUS, etc.)
If you then go into Lore Warden (fighter archetype), you can get Combat Expertise for free on top of your normal bonus feats. (Plus, you'll later get substantial bonuses to combat maneuvers.)Thus, between the two of them, you could have Whirlwind Attack at 5th, with 3 other open feats. (Power Attack, Weapon Focus, Weapon Spec?)
If you did this, you get another bonus in that Martial Versatility combos really well with the Lore Warden's bonuses to combat maneuvers. You'll already be taking Power Attack, you'll get Combat Expertise for free, and you'll get IUS for free as well. That means you'll have the prereqs for every single Improved Maneuver feat in the game. You can decide to suddenly be a grappler, tripper, sunderer, or whatever on the fly. And be GOOD at it.
Something to consider.
Human Two-Handed Fighter
STR: 20 (+2 human)
Dex: 16
Con: 11
Int: 7
Wis: 10
Cha: 7
Personally, I think a starting 20 in STR has crossed the line of diminishing returns. The difference in cost between a (pre-racial) 16 and 18 is nearly half your build points, all for a measley +1 to attack and damage. Taking it down a notch gets you +2HP/level. How would you like to play your last several sessions with an extra 20HP? Doesn't that sound better than +1 to hit? You'd even have points left to either un-dump INT/CHA a little or even get a little WIS to shore up your Will save a tad.
That's an awful lot to lose just for +1 to hit.
Weapon of choice is the Nodachi
Armor of choice will be Mithral Breast Plate
If I'm not mistaken, the suggestions I made above only leave you with light armor proficiency. However, if you take the Armor Expert trait, you can still wear the armor you're planning on without penalty.
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For PFS I recommend a stat buy like this:
str:19 dex:15 con:12 int:10 wis:12 cha:7
You get more skills so your not going to feel as useless when not swinging your weapon. A +1 modifier to both con and wisdom will go much farther than your giving it credit for. You will be making a lot of saves and the extra +1 health a level goes a long way.
Also your excuse for a 20 strength is over hand chop. It comes online @ level 3. With a 19 start you can bump strength at 4 and be doing exactly the same as you originally wanted but still have a more balanced charater in the long run.
Gonna go farther and say that you should look to multi class. After leve 7 there is not much need to go further as a fighter in PFS. The level 11 ability sucks compared to backswing at level 7.
That being said I would multi class either barbarian, ranger, brawler, or slayer. All provide more to you than a fighter does. They are actually better than a fighter sadly. They also give better skills, saves, and class abilities.
I just feel you will be much happier in PFS with your character if you stay alive longer and have more to do then swing a big weapon.
As far as feats you have my favorites of weapon focus/specialization, improved critical, and lunge. Im not as huge fan of furious focus as most people on the sight. It is teally good but unless I am grabbing vital strikes I typically give it a skip.
I will recommend iron will as a feat. Its your weakest point as a fighter. And PFS likes confusion. Killing your team is bad business. I use a wayfinder + clear s pindal join stone on my ranger because 1 dominate on him I can 1 shot fighters of equal level...so a small group would be slaughtered if I was dominated. The cost of being a mounted Lancet with favored enemy of human.
Other feats of all around good-ness: blind fight (darkness and mists are a thing), toughness (extra hp helps your failed reflexes), dodge (best +1 ac feat), spring attack (getting away after your attack doesnt kill helps reduce taking full attacks), enforcer, improved/greater bull rush, barroom brawler (great for 4 hour PFS sessions)
As for step up that is up to you. I havent had as much success with it as others do. Plus I typically play tier 1 caster classes in a majority of my games as I am a player who values options and choices.
i made a strong character around making single attacks with vital strike/overhand chop, i'm not sure it'll help you though... my build was based on having a partner. one of my friends was playing a two-weapon warrion who fought with 2 kukris and the butterfly sting feat; i was a two hand fighter (with an alchemist dip) with a tetsubo... when i was enlarged (which was most fights) the tetsubo did 2d8 base plus 2d8 for each vital strike feat (plus the devastating strike bonus eventually), plus an extra 6d8 when he passed me a crit... 10d8 with just vital strike and then add [double strength (possibly with mutagen), power attack, enhancement, weapon training, weapon spec., devastating strike, etc]x4 and not many things could take a single hit.
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Yeah butterfly sting combo partner is awesome. If the op has someone willing to play the other half I highly recommend it. You would be devastating the scenarios. I typically play characters who can stand alone because not many of my friends play PFS. I would love to play a combo like that. Id p rolly go slayer with kukris. Sneak attack on the attacks that im not passing off is pretty amazing.
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Two data points for you to consider:
1) The two-handed fighter in our group with the 12 con died at 5th level last week. Two full attacks from a CR 8 critter and that was it. If he'd had a 14 con, he would have survived.
2) On the flip side, my 12 con charge build/earth breaker specialist is still going strong at 9th level, having never once gone unconscious in her career.
I tend to find that overly-specialized characters don't do too well in PFS. You really do need to have at least one thing you can do outside of combat, and two would be better. Your character won't die necessarily, but you will miss out on a lot of prestige from secondary success conditions. Turning everything you encounter into red mist in one swing isn't very helpful on those occasions when you need to capture someone alive.
My usual stat array (across 14 PFS characters, two retired) is main stat at 17 to start, bump to 18 at 4, then apply magic liberally. Secondary stat at 16 or two secondaries at 14. No more than one stat below 10, if possible.
For a THF, you really only need Power Attack and Furious Focus to be effective. Everything else is flavor. You can pick up some ranged feats to be useful from a distance, or pick a combat maneuver or two to play with.
Some combos that I like for a straight THF:
1) Intimidating Prowess + Bludgeoner + Enforcer. (Use Bludgeoner to do non-lethal damage, then Enforcer to make them shaken for the rest of the combat.
2) Combat Reflexes + Reach Weapon + Unarmed Strike (to threaten close in)
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Gwen gives good advice on these forms.
Tho I tend to grab armor spikes or spike gauntlet instead of improved unarmed strikes unless I multi class and gain it for free. In which case I would use the unarmed strikes.
Her first combo suggestion is gold as shaken is a brutal condition and enforcer allows you to take people alive when required.
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My advice is to go vanilla fighter and to pick a really kick-arse weapon to focus on, since you can pick your weapon upgrades in PFS. The best weapon options for a two handed fighter are, IMO, Falcata or Fauchard. Falcata brings a great crit threat range of (19-20)x3 and can be used in one or two hands (THF's can get JACKED by being grappled if they are not prepared for it). Fauchard is awesome for its crit range, damage die and reach.
Balance your starting stats. Starting with an 18 STR is great: it gives you a ton of damage right out of the gate, plus the 2H damage bonuses have good synergy if you bump your STR to 20 at level 8 and have a +2 belt by that time.
IMO you need at least a 14 CON to play a melee character in PFS - but only if you want to survive. ;) I wouldn't go any higher than 14, but don't go lower, either. Dumping WIS is silly. Keep it at a 10, or better yet, buy it up to a 12.
Here's a build focused on Shatter Defenses that comes together really well by level 6: just about everything that you attack will be flat-footed to you after your first attack. With your Fighter BAB and feats, your attack bonus will rock. You will kill things fast. And you can wear full plate with no movement penalty at level 7. That's a big deal - and a lot cheaper than Mithral Full Plate.
S:18 (all bumps here) D:14 C:14 I:12 W:12 C:7
1) Weapon Prof: Falcata; Weapon Focus: Falcata; Power Attack
2) Intimidating Prowess
3) Dazzling Display
4) Furious Focus (Retrain to Cornugon Smash @ level 6)
5) Weapon Specialization: Falcata
6) Shatter Defenses
7) Iron Will
8) Greater Weapon Focus: Falcata
9) Improved Critical: Falcata
10) Critical Focus
11) Improved Iron Will
12) Critical Versatility
Tho I tend to grab armor spikes or spike gauntlet instead of improved unarmed strikes unless I multi class and gain it for free. In which case I would use the unarmed strikes,
That's a good point. I almost always multiclass, so I don't usually notice that it costs a feat... :-)
With Advanced Class Guide, a Brawler dip might become standard for my martial characters: Improved Unarmed Strike and situational feat swapping? Tank your INT and still get to use the whole Combat Expertise feat tree? More skill points and class skills? Yes, please!
I also usually consider a Barbarian dip on my fighters, just because Furious is such a nice weapon enhancement.
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I think the OP wanted to avoid dazzling display and shatter defenses.
I have not been a fan of dazzling display either. Id much rather spend my actions on moving and killing as opposed to full round demoralizing. I played at a table with a guy that used dazzling display only to be criticaled after his display. He prolly could havr just killed the bad guy but ended up giving him a smaller chance to do damage.
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I think the OP wanted to avoid dazzling display and shatter defenses.
I have not been a fan of dazzling display either. Id much rather spend my actions on moving and killing as opposed to full round demoralizing. I played at a table with a guy that used dazzling display only to be criticaled after his display. He prolly could havr just killed the bad guy but ended up giving him a smaller chance to do damage.
I've had a lot of luck with Cornugon Smash instead. It's free.
Dazzling Display takes up too much offensive capability for too little return IMO. Maybe a Bard or a Swashbuckler would benefit more.
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Dazzling Display is a horrific waste of time by itself, but Cornugon Smash and Shatter Defenses costs you no action and is a very solid debuff for the whole party (Shaken - which affects the opponent's attack rolls and saves), and an awesome debuff that stacks on top of that for you (they are flat-footed to your attacks).
With the Dazzling Display feat tax the combo is tough to justify for just about any build other than a fighter, but for a fighter it is pretty awesome. Good fit for a rogue or nija that multiclasses into fighter, too (leveraging the flat-footed for sneak damage).
I briefly thought of two levels of brawler and attempting to play a Dirty Trick character, but that move action to negate everything is demoralizing for it.Shatter Defenses route seems lame too, and I've had issues trying to use social skills in PFS.
Maybe someone can suggest how to build a strong character built around making 1 attack with Vital Strike/Overhand Chop?
Suggestions, please.
well dirty trick sort of bumps up to standard action, which is just as bad as most effects. BLIND! lose standard, BLIND! lose standard, BLIND! the go between for the turns means all your allies between the enemy and your turn get to do flat-footed AC.
if you went dirty trick orc archetype, then you can do it in place of an attack and follow through your next attacks against flat-footed.