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I can't be the only player fascinated by the Red Mantis Assassin. It isn't raw power, but it triumphs in cool. The best method used to be Ranger entry, but I think Slayer beats it. Given how gish classes give more options and essentially more fun at the table and the Slayer base makes a great fighter, I'm pretty sure this could work.
Please offer comments and ideas.
Stygian Slayer 8/Red Mantis Assassin X (8 for the saves and extra talent and extra Invisibilty use)
Skill requirements are easy, you take Stealth and Perception anyway.
Feats are always annoying, you can get Two Weapon Fighting as a Ranger talent, but you have to buy Alertness, Weapon Focus and Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Sawtooth). Still, that can be done by level 3 if neccessary.
Stygian slayer dumps shields and all but light armour, which suits RMA, as he can't cast spells other wise. No loss. He also loses a Slayer talent. In return, he gets invisibility san an SLA. He also gets wands of Illusion and some others. Stygian Slayer 8 gives Invisibility 2/day.
Red Mantis Assassin gives a number of benefits, mainly in spellcasting. Concentrate on the Transmutation as you can grab Illusion through spell trigger stuff (not just wands, btw).
He has nearly full BAB, he has a great range of Illusion and Transumtation spells, his two-weapon fighting will actually work, he has a few extra die on his Sneak Attack. He can do odd things like invisibly sneak attacking while transformed into a monster. That has to be cool.
I have a concern about effectiveness of some illusions at higher level when this all comes together, but Rule of Cool for an unusual Gish very much appeals.
Any advice? Thematically, these two classes seem happily wedded. Can he stand up as a playable PC though?
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Also, rules question.
Stygian Slayer uses his level as caster level for Illusions. RMA has no caster level rule. Using SKR's guidance that if it sounds the same it should be treated the same, I would use the entire character level as caster level for Illusions. Disagree? It'd be a fair and cool boost at least.
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You can actually get Weapon Focus and any one other Combat Feat as Talents if you like via Rogue Talents (Weapon Training and Combat Trick). I don't necessarily recommend it, but it's worth noting.
Another option you can use in conjunction with this if you like is dabbling a level of Swashbuckler plus Slashing Grace on Sawtooth Sabres and make the character's combat pretty much entirely Dex-based, which could be cool (you probably take this as your 1st level to do it as soon as possible, and go straight Slayer thereafter...you can be dual-wielding Sabres with Dex-to-damage by 3rd level).
And what you post seems a perfectly reasonable build, though your spellcasting doesn't get going for quite a long time in there.
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Dex, a bit of Con and Cha are the important stats in that case.
Drow looks good as a race. Dex and Cha and some Darkness/Illusion style SLAs. Human might not even be ideal because for this guy, seeing invisibly in darkness may be important. Half-Orcs are seldom a poor choice for PCs either.
What about...
Swashbuckler 1/Stygian Slayer 7/RMA X?
You lose a caster level and Invisibility 2xday and saves, but you gain Dex to fighting. This saves Str money which you need for the vast amount of Illusion magic items you'll need. You can use Illusion staves.
I don't want to get into RMA after 8th level. The Summon Monster V (RMA 4th level SLA) is acceptable at 12th level at that rate, being only one behind a Sorcerer, but not much use getting into it later.
EDIT: Arcturus24, I don't have that book. Would it work?
EDITEDIT: just looked it up.
" Faithful (Achaekek)
Source Inner Sea Combat pg. 11 (Amazon)
If the ranger selects faithful (achaekek), he can choose from the following list whenever he gains a combat style feat: Double Slice, Exotic Weapon Proficiency (sawtooth sabre), Two-Weapon Feint, and Two-Weapon Fighting. At 6th level, he adds Improved Two-Weapon Feint and Two-Weapon Defense to the list. At 10th level, he adds Greater Two-Weapon Fighting and Two-Weapon Rend to the list."
BINGO
The best method used to be Ranger entry, but I think Slayer beats it.
I'm pretty sure with a single level of fighter and four of anything else you can get into RMA by 6th level. Check it.
1st) Two Weapon Fighting
3rd) Weapon Focus (Sawtooth Sabre)
5th) Alertness
Bonus1) Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Sawtooth Sabre)
I always liked Rogue3/Fighter2 myself. Actually, considering the Cha requirement for RMA, it synergizes nice with ninja. So Ninja3/Fighter2 gets you there rather swiftly, with 2d6 sneak attck before you ever get in.
Don't get me wrong, I -like- the slayer class. It just doesn't seem the quickest way in and out for this particular prestige class, IMO.
Heck, a human can get in with any class combo. Ninja 5 ftw!
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Stygian slayer is bad because it doesn't get weapon proficiency at all. Look at it. It says "This replaces a slayer's normal weapon and armor proficiency." but all it has is armor. therefore, it gets not weapon proficiency.
Go look it up. It's a small typo that screws the entire archetype.
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I love the idea... but in home games Ive always been stuck with 'no evil', and they aren't PFS legal for my other games.
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Stygian slayer is bad because it doesn't get weapon proficiency at all. Look at it. It says "This replaces a slayer's normal weapon and armor proficiency." but all it has is armor. therefore, it gets not weapon proficiency.
Go look it up. It's a small typo that screws the entire archetype.
Oh, c'mon, that's a typo.
Yes, it's another crap typo that Paizo didn't check, but it's a typo.
A slayer can use a weapon. This is a common sense RAI rather than RAW thing.
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Dex, a bit of Con and Cha are the important stats in that case.
Drow looks good as a race. Dex and Cha and some Darkness/Illusion style SLAs. Human might not even be ideal because for this guy, seeing invisibly in darkness may be important. Half-Orcs are seldom a poor choice for PCs either.
What about...
Swashbuckler 1/Stygian Slayer 7/RMA X?
You lose a caster level and Invisibility 2xday and saves, but you gain Dex to fighting. This saves Str money which you need for the vast amount of Illusion magic items you'll need. You can use Illusion staves.
I don't want to get into RMA after 8th level. The Summon Monster V (RMA 4th level SLA) is acceptable at 12th level at that rate, being only one behind a Sorcerer, but not much use getting into it later.
That all sounds workable, yeah.
Don't get me wrong, I -like- the slayer class. It just doesn't seem the quickest way in and out for this particular prestige class, IMO.
Given that he's talking about 8 levels before Red Mantis when he could easily do it in 5 even as a straight Slayer...I don't think entering as early as possible. The idea is as effective a character as possible, which seems like Slayer's a good choice for.
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Stygian slayer is bad because it doesn't get weapon proficiency at all. Look at it. It says "This replaces a slayer's normal weapon and armor proficiency." but all it has is armor. therefore, it gets not weapon proficiency.
Go look it up. It's a small typo that screws the entire archetype.Oh, c'mon, that's a typo.
Yes, it's another crap typo that Paizo didn't check, but it's a typo.
A slayer can use a weapon. This is a common sense RAI rather than RAW thing.
Agreed. Also, this couldn't matter less even if true if you're dipping Swashbuckler as your first level.
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| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Stygian slayer is bad because it doesn't get weapon proficiency at all. Look at it. It says "This replaces a slayer's normal weapon and armor proficiency." but all it has is armor. therefore, it gets not weapon proficiency.
Go look it up. It's a small typo that screws the entire archetype.Oh, c'mon, that's a typo.
Yes, it's another crap typo that Paizo didn't check, but it's a typo.
A slayer can use a weapon. This is a common sense RAI rather than RAW thing.
Yeah, I know. :P
Everyone in the world is going to rule it as an alter to your proficiency because that's what makes sense, I just thought I would bring that to light. I wonder how it works in PFS... lol.|
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I love the idea... but in home games Ive always been stuck with 'no evil', and they aren't PFS legal for my other games.
For home games I'd allow a LN religious contract killer for flavour. Not only that, but RMA's have no incentive to kill or hinder other PCs unless it interferes in the job. They are unpleasant cultists, but in a war-torn, magical world, they are not especially evil. At the very least they will sit down and play fair in negotiations.
Abadar diplomats could use RMAs for wet jobs.
The best method used to be Ranger entry, but I think Slayer beats it.I'm pretty sure with a single level of fighter and four of anything else you can get into RMA by 6th level. Check it.
Yes, but I'm interested in making an effective Gish because I like spells and I like the variety.
Magical invisible killer.
Who transforms into a Hell Scorpion and summons his vermin while invisible.
to the necro-mobil batman!
I was just looking into a Crimson Assassin build and would like some feedback or advice if possible from the wise paizo community.
The two options I was playing with are either
Swashbuckler 1/Ninja 3/Slayer 3 -> Crimson Assassin
or
Swashbuckler 1/Ninja 4 -> Crimson Assassin
The first choice is a more solid two weapon fighter, while the second one gets earlier entry in the PrC.
Btw are there deific boons for Achaekek published anywhere?
It might be fun to throw them in the mix.
Thanks in advance!