| Llyarden |
According to Spinning Throw (assuming you succeed the bull rush maneuver), an opponent is knocked prone after the bull rush has been resolved. Does that mean that the trip occurs then? Or does it occur as soon as the trip maneuver has succeeded and before the bull rush, because Spinning Throw only works when you have already succeeded at a trip maneuver?
| Kazaan |
The prone condition is applied after the Bull Rush. So you don't benefit from their prone penalty to AC on the Bull Rush check. Ki Throw states you drop them prone in a spot you threaten. Spinning Throw states you move them to a new spot, then make a bull rush, then they fall prone (either after a successful bull rush, or in the reposition spot in case of failed bull rush). I use the Declare/Determine/Resolve model to illustrate combat flow. So the flow would be as follows:
Using just Ki Throw
1) Declare Trip using Ki Throw.
2) Determine trip check: success.
3) Resolve trip result: target falls prone.
Using Spinning Throw
1) Declare Trip using Ki Throw.
2) Determine trip check: success.
3) Declare Spinning Throw
4) Determine Spinning Throw bull rush: success.
5) Resolve bull rush.
6) Resolve trip.
-or-
4) Determine Spinning Throw bull rush: fail.
5) Resolve trip.
Basically, Determine means you're rolling to see if it succeeds or fails, but you haven't yet resolved the action. If there is an interceding action, you play it out fully in stack fashion so you fully declare, determine, and resolve the Bull Rush before you continue on to resolve the Trip. The trip has succeeded, but mechanically you haven't dropped them prone yet until you resolve that success. Using this method for action management clears up about 99% of confusion and mishaps.