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Yup, this is has become a "all cops are racist pigs" thread crying about how being black is being a victim. The blacks I know are far different from this breed of cop-hating, poor because whitey-makes me so that is taking everything said to the contrary as a racist white point of view. They are fun, cool people who have ordinary interactions within society. We joke at PTA meetings, laugh at movies, roll dice and share stories of our kids....they also don't hate white cops, or white people in general.
Being racist is a funny thing....even black people can be one.
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I don't have any reason to think Darryl Wilson hated black people. I don't think he was going out looking for an excuse to kill blacks. I do think he lived and worked in an environment where he was primed to see particularly young black men as criminals or potential criminals and especially as dangerous and violent. That prejudice made him far more likely to escalate the situation to deadly force rather than try to deescalate it. From what I've read about it, that attitude is common in Ferguson (and in many other poor urban minority neighborhoods).
It's possible I'm wrong about Wilson. Or any other individual cop in Ferguson, but there's definitely a pattern there. And it's a common pattern in similar places in this country. Except in places where there's been a concentrated effort to root it out. As I said before, they don't have the trust of the black part of their community and that is absolutely a failure of the police force.
I don't know if that makes him Evil Racist Cop, or all the cops in Ferguson Evil Racist Cops, but I do know that it means they shouldn't be patrolling a majority black community. I know they shouldn't be trusted with the power of life or death over that community.
And I believe that to a degree. I also believe that a community that is raising it's children with no respect for authority, a general hate and mistrust for white people, and little respect for the people around them could also be an issue here.
We have no evidence that either is happening or happened in this instance but the people defending the protesting and such with no evidence of racism or inappropriate response are yelling "white devil"....| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
So basically, you just ignore any of the arguments that disprove your points then?
1: Why do you think it was racial?
2: He stopped to confront 2 black men.
1: That were walking down the middle of the street.
2: Yeah, but black men.
1: Were there white guys walking down the middle of the street that he went right by without saying anything to?
2: No.
1: Were there other black men that weren't walking down the middle of the street, that he didn't stop to speak to?
2: Yes.
1: So it is racist because ...
2: He's white and he stopped 2 black men for no reason.
1: ... except for walking down the middle of the street.
You need to stop using the word science.Sorry, self editing this as there IS discrimination on these boards and I don't really want to give them any more fuel to practice it against me and/or others.
Am about finished with the thread, but wanted to reply.
Why?
I know there are those who don't like the studies done by sociologists, economists and political scientists, but these studies are in many instances USED to promote the further equalization of minorities. They are also used as evidence for reasons to promote programs that promote education equality, job opportunity, and betterment of housing and community for minorities.
Is it that you don't consider economics, political science, or sociology as science?
Actually, I don't want to know that answer, as there are others who have far darker reasons for not wanting to consider the studies as science...so actually...don't answer. Ignorance can be bliss.
Plus, I'm leaving the thread as there are some hot topics, and having been discriminated against many times in my life (as I am part of one of the many minorities out there with race, religion, gender, orientation...etc)...it may hit far to close to home to keep a level head.
I would like to go back on topic though and say, there may be racism, and there may be profiling involved with whats happening in Fergie...
But I also think even if it's going back towards racism in the government and elsewhere...that's rooted in something that's deeper and far more divisive between what the public wants and needs and what their local government is actually doing. I think it's a divide that's been growing for a looong time, and has been brewing for all that time.
The reason you need to stop using "science" to describe your babble, is because you are not linking to articles published in independently published peer-reviewed journals.
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And I believe that to a degree. I also believe that a community that is raising it's children with no respect for authority
There are many forms of disrespect towards authority that don't seem to be a problem according to you. You seem to judge the ability to disrespect the government based on whether they agree with your views or not, and it doesn't work that way.
As to defending protestors, yes, I believe they have a right to get in the street and say that they're angry. The constitution guarantees them that right. That right is not only limited to people that you agree with, that's the entire point of it.
So I'll go back to my earlier question: If racism really isn't a factor in police treatment of black people anymore and it's really just all based on how black people behave, when did this switch happen?
I would say that racism isn't always a factor in police treatment of black people. Nor has it always been. Black folk have their bad seeds, just like whites do, asians do, native americans do, latinos do, pacific islanders do, etc. And those bad seeds tend to end up running afoul law enforcement. Does that mean that everyone that law enforcement comes in conflict with are bad seeds, no, not even for the white privileged is that true. Yet sometimes cops do have to deal with black folk who are problems not due to their race but due to their behavior.
In NYC there is a pretty cool group called 100 Blacks in Law Enforcement Who Care.
They are the ones who are willing to break with the "official" police propaganda, and speak truth to power. I have real respect for these guys (and ladies) as they catch hell for being black, being cops, and being cops who speak the truth (especially when it comes to other members of the NYPD. I'm guessing that Ferguson doesn't have a similar group, and could really use one right now!
So 100, out of 30,000... It's a start. But more seriously, there is a segment of the NYPD that is very scary. They were once part of the special Street Crime Unit (motto: "We Own The Night"), until it got shut down for all kinds of bad stuff. The white shirts (upper level cops) use them as a tool, often in very inappropriate situations. My point is that like in most large groups, most people are fairly apathetic/distracted, and there are others at both ends of the spectrum. What seems to make the most difference is how the people in command use each end of the spectrum.
PS I was also out in Guttenberg, Iowa last month, and hung out with a really nice cop. The County she was in is the hardest hit by meth in the country, but she still treated the people she interacted with link human beings.
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I want to have a LE villain or organization pull this in a game at some point now.Seriously, I want my money back. These bad guys are completely unrealistic, its like they're TRYING to be lawful evil or something.Oh. Speaking of representation in Ferguson.
One of the officers involved in the "Charging a black man for the crime of destruction of police property for bleeding on their uniforms" case is now on the Ferguson City Council
Amdar kicked the elf into unconciousness.
"Stinking elf! You got blood on my boots." a snap of the finger and kreyg's second snapped to attention."this elf has damaged my boots. Send him to the mines to work off his debt."
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So I'll go back to my earlier question: If racism really isn't a factor in police treatment of black people anymore and it's really just all based on how black people behave, when did this switch happen?I would say that racism isn't always a factor in police treatment of black people. Nor has it always been. Black folk have their bad seeds, just like whites do, asians do, native americans do, latinos do, pacific islanders do, etc. And those bad seeds tend to end up running afoul law enforcement. Does that mean that everyone that law enforcement comes in conflict with are bad seeds, no, not even for the white privileged is that true. Yet sometimes cops do have to deal with black folk who are problems not due to their race but due to their behavior.Well, no duh. That's why no one gets upset when white cops blow away black people who are shooting people, for example.
Obviously not everything is driven by racism. Even back in the Jim Crow days there were actual black criminals who needed to be dealt with harshly. But there are people who think racism is now at worst a negligible factor. And I want to know when we reached that utopian state.
And how we managed to do it without police behavior changing that much.
Racism isnt a factor because the only race is human. Bigotry on the other hand is real.
"In the war of the races, I'll side with the bears"
-Edward Abbey
More
music
to riot by:
Public enemy - Fight the Power
Dr.Dre - The day the niggaz took over
Frank Zappa - Trouble Every Day
The Goats - TV Cops
And on the subject of the "N-word"
Public enemy - I Don't Wanna Be Called Yo Niga
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Yup, this is has become a "all cops are racist pigs" thread crying about how being black is being a victim. The blacks I know are far different from this breed of cop-hating, poor because whitey-makes me so that is taking everything said to the contrary as a racist white point of view. They are fun, cool people who have ordinary interactions within society. We joke at PTA meetings, laugh at movies, roll dice and share stories of our kids....they also don't hate white cops, or white people in general.
Being racist is a funny thing....even black people can be one.
"Some of our best Negroes are our friends."
Being racist is a funny thing....even black people can be one.
Actually by some definitions they can't be. Not even say, President Obama or AG Holder. Because they don't really control the power, whites do.
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I want to have a LE villain or organization pull this in a game at some point now.Seriously, I want my money back. These bad guys are completely unrealistic, its like they're TRYING to be lawful evil or something.Oh. Speaking of representation in Ferguson.
One of the officers involved in the "Charging a black man for the crime of destruction of police property for bleeding on their uniforms" case is now on the Ferguson City Council
Amdar kicked the elf into unconciousness.
"Stinking elf! You got blood on my boots." a snap of the finger and kreyg's second snapped to attention.
"this elf has damaged my boots. Send him to the mines to work off his debt."
Frankly, widespread criminality is a problem that the elven community really has to confront within itself before elves can reasonably expect not to be profiled by human law enforcement. Elves want to stop ending up in the mines, they need to cut it out with glorifying a chaotic worldview that encourages disrespect for authority. Cultural encouragement of bleeding on human boots is really just one symptom of the larger issues, which THEY need to resolve internally before progress can be made.
Till the elven community starts playing nice with us, our officers are just being practical when they approach any elven youth as a potential boot-bleeder.
Oh, and the Con penalty doesn't help either, in fact it only makes it worse (damned hemophiliacs).
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This doesn't even touch on how much I personally take offense at being described as acting/talking 'white'. Expletive you, buddy, I have no interest in country music, gun culture obsession, Larry the Cable Guy, your Viagra ads, rap metal, Golf discussions of how things are more 'normal' without Tiger winning everything, Fantasy football after all the crap you gave the 'nerds' about their 'stupid math games', Dane Cook, or your privilege.
It is doubly offensive when the underlying implication is that a different behavior is expected based on my appearance, regardless of situation and social context.
Being racist is a funny thing....even black people can be one.Actually by some definitions they can't be. Not even say, President Obama or AG Holder. Because they don't really control the power, whites do.
Silly pres man, he can't be a monarch tyrant and a feckless wimp without power simultaneously; he's not Schroedinger's President.
And of course the only way colored people are allowed to hold power is if that color is orange. Or if green is involved.
Unless, in all seriousness, you are about to out yourself as a subscriber to the delirious rantings of Glen Beck, at which point I fear we can't be friends on account of being plugged into wholly different realities.
“In the United States at present, only whites can be racists, since whites
dominate and control the institutions that create and enforce American cultural
norms and values . . . blacks and other Third World peoples do not have
access to the power to enforce any prejudices they may have, so they cannot,
by definition, be racists.”
--from EDUCATION & RACISM, National Education Association. 1973
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Yup, this is has become a "all cops are racist pigs" thread crying about how being black is being a victim. The blacks I know are far different from this breed of cop-hating, poor because whitey-makes me so that is taking everything said to the contrary as a racist white point of view. They are fun, cool people who have ordinary interactions within society. We joke at PTA meetings, laugh at movies, roll dice and share stories of our kids....they also don't hate white cops, or white people in general.
Being racist is a funny thing....even black people can be one.
it seems you think only black people can be racist.
I would ask you to ask your friends if they TRUST the police more so than like or even not hate them. You may be surprised by some of the answers.
"In the war of the races, I'll side with the bears"
-Edward AbbeyMore
music
to riot by:Public enemy - Fight the Power
Dr.Dre - The day the niggaz took over
Frank Zappa - Trouble Every Day
The Goats - TV Cops
And on the subject of the "N-word"
Public enemy - I Don't Wanna Be Called Yo Niga
i referenced that last song a page ago, for those interested.
Someone mentioned the Asians... and it hit me; Why are they treated SO much better than the blacks? They were both heavily discriminated against after the civil war. And it hit me that this supports the theory that most of this "racism" is just class discrimination and lazy thinking. If the blacks banded together as one huge close knit family and worked hard and earned a lot of money (Jews) or earned high academic awards (Asians) then people would probably treat them as superior instead of inferior, too. I know this is trading one stereotype (poor) for a more positive one (rich) or (smart). But if lazy thinkers are going to use stereotypes then why not as a people engineer a better one as those hated groups before you did? BUT Aranna, how do we band together? You start by adopting a strong set of family values, like so many other "peoples" if you stick together as a family and pool your resources then large numbers of black people could start businesses or attend good universities. Within a couple generations cops will be treating you with respect when they pull you over... well as much respect as they treat the rest of us with anyway. Which is less than you might think unless you're rich yourself in which case they already treat you with respect even now. But at least those lazy thinkers will feel safe walking through black neighborhoods and defer to you in other situations.
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The constitution guarantees them that right. That right is not only limited to people that you agree with, that's the entire point of it.
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You know, I don't agree with this at all, but even so:
“In the United States at present, only whites can be racists, since whites
dominate and control the institutions that create and enforce American cultural
norms and values . . . blacks and other Third World peoples do not have
access to the power to enforce any prejudices they may have, so they cannot,
by definition, be racists.”
--from EDUCATION & RACISM, National Education Association. 1973
Also, I wonder what is hidden beneath the ellipsis.
Someone mentioned the Asians... and it hit me; Why are they treated SO much better than the blacks? They were both heavily discriminated against after the civil war. And it hit me that this supports the theory that most of this "racism" is just class discrimination and lazy thinking. If the blacks banded together as one huge close knit family and worked hard and earned a lot of money (Jews) or earned high academic awards (Asians) then people would probably treat them as superior instead of inferior, too. I know this is trading one stereotype (poor) for a more positive one (rich) or (smart). But if lazy thinkers are going to use stereotypes then why not as a people engineer a better one as those hated groups before you did? BUT Aranna, how do we band together? You start by adopting a strong set of family values, like so many other "peoples" if you stick together as a family and pool your resources then large numbers of black people could start businesses or attend good universities. Within a couple generations cops will be treating you with respect when they pull you over... well as much respect as they treat the rest of us with anyway. Which is less than you might think unless you're rich yourself in which case they already treat you with respect even now. But at least those lazy thinkers will feel safe walking through black neighborhoods and defer to you in other situations.So once again, racism is all black people's fault.
All African Americans need to do is band together as one big (~40 million) family, adopt a set of white approved family values (from scratch since unlike some other minority groups in the US they're not emigrating here starting with a strong uniform set of cultural values), work hard and succeed despite the prejudices stacked against them and then, in a couple of generations, white people will start treating you like the less despised minorities. Probably.
Yeah, like the "Asians" do.
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Someone mentioned the Asians... and it hit me; Why are they treated SO much better than the blacks? They were both heavily discriminated against after the civil war. And it hit me that this supports the theory that most of this "racism" is just class discrimination and lazy thinking. If the blacks banded together as one huge close knit family and worked hard and earned a lot of money (Jews) or earned high academic awards (Asians) then people would probably treat them as superior instead of inferior, too. I know this is trading one stereotype (poor) for a more positive one (rich) or (smart). But if lazy thinkers are going to use stereotypes then why not as a people engineer a better one as those hated groups before you did? BUT Aranna, how do we band together? You start by adopting a strong set of family values, like so many other "peoples" if you stick together as a family and pool your resources then large numbers of black people could start businesses or attend good universities. Within a couple generations cops will be treating you with respect when they pull you over... well as much respect as they treat the rest of us with anyway. Which is less than you might think unless you're rich yourself in which case they already treat you with respect even now. But at least those lazy thinkers will feel safe walking through black neighborhoods and defer to you in other situations.
Sorry Aranna that's not going to work. There are a number of historically black colleges and universities and a number of black people who own family businesses, and overall lead normal lives. It's not enough to keep bigots from thinking whatever they are going to think. Moreover, a point that is often lost on non black people is that black people, unlike many other peoples, ARE NOT a monolithic race all sharing a common culture and origin. Well, maybe an origin, but not a culture. Too much information has been lost since slavery days, and since then people have moved all over in search for work, education, food, what have you- there is no common point of origin anymore. As noted above, my wife is African American while I am African Caribbean - our languages, cultural mores and viewpoints and experiences in life are VERY VERY DIFFERENT and we can even tell the minor differences between ourselves physically even (wife sees the golden notes in my skin tone, can see the very minor waves in my hair from the other people's in my ancestry). Black people are NOT all the same, and trying to encourage them to band together as one is going to cause problems. In many ways, this was what caused so many problems in the struggle for civil rights with the differences between Malcolm x and Martin Luther King with respect to northern/urban and southern/rural (which is my wife's family background).
Moreover, according to at least one anecdote from my personal life asians ARE NOT treated so much better, at least not professionally.
I was hanging out with a friend several years ago, who happens to be Chinese (Han ancestry). We were watching TV while waiting for more people to come over and wouldn't you know it, Harold and Kumar Go To White Castle comes on. I laugh nervously, and I'm eager to change the channel (didn't know if this guy was down with toilet humor or not) and he says no, he wants to watch a scene. It was early in the movie, and the scene was Harold (Chinese dude) being picked on by his coworkers, who give him a boatload of work to do and walk off laughing, thinking because he's Chinese he has no life and LOVES working, even on a weekend. My guest, cursed loudly and said pointedly "this is why I don't work for white people in a white collar setting. You do all the work for the same amount of pay and NEVER get a promotion unless they need to prove they aren't racist."
He then went on and on about Asian pothead never getting searched by the police and whether or not I wanted to smoke up with him sometime because we'd never get caught.
Strange guy.
I vaguely remember the scene with kimchee, yeah.
Or a little more directly. Feel free to download the full text.
As to the Comrade's point about the time period, either it is still relevant and whites are still in control of everything or we can answer thejeff's question about when things changed, somewhere between 1973 and now.
As to Glen Beck, unless he wrote that when he was 9 years old (and if he did, wow, that is pretty impressive), the idea is hardly new and unique to Beck (I am assuming that he has claimed that some people hold a similar idea).
I did read it. It says that non-whites can become racist, but not until they control the system. So are you claiming that non-whites now control the system?
I can't quote all the text, that is why I provide the source and then a link when asked so nicely.
Here is another interesting passage.
In our society it would be very difficult for any individual to be a racist all by himself. If everyone just had his own individual racial prejudices, which were never reinforced by the society, racism would not exist. But when those individual racial prejudices are reinforced by the culture, we then have institutional racism. Thus, all white individuals in our society are racists. Even if a white American is totally free from all conscious racial prejudices, he remains a racist, for he receives benefits distributed by a white racist society through ts institutions. Our institutional and cultural processes are so arranged as to automatically benefit whites, just because they are white.
This passage points out why Obama and Holder can't be racist, society wouldn't reinforce prejudices they could have. So while they individually have power, they don't have societal power.
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I would feel good knowing that a dude who robbed a store and attempted to overpower a cop in my neighborhood was no longer around.
Heh, no longer around, nice.
Like he moved out of town or something.
Honestly, it was mostly that the euphemism meter was going through the roof that struck me about that.
The attitude that sees death as a feel-good resolution to petty theft or (possible) unarmed grappling with the police doesn't surprise me at all. We have an Eighth Amendment precisely to restrain such attitudes. If they didn't exist and couldn't seem attractive to reasonable people, we wouldn't have ever needed that part of the Constitution.
"No longer around" being used as a euphemism for "lying right over there, but with six new holes in him," on the other hand...
Well, like I said, it makes it sound like he just moved out of town or something.
Yup, this is has become a "all cops are racist pigs" thread crying about how being black is being a victim. The blacks I know are far different from this breed of cop-hating, poor because whitey-makes me so that is taking everything said to the contrary as a racist white point of view. They are fun, cool people who have ordinary interactions within society. We joke at PTA meetings, laugh at movies, roll dice and share stories of our kids....they also don't hate white cops, or white people in general.
Being racist is a funny thing....even black people can be one.
it seems you think only black people can be racist.
I would ask you to ask your friends if they TRUST the police more so than like or even not hate them. You may be surprised by some of the answers.
That's sort of a hard one there. I personally don't trust anybody I don't know, and a police officer usually has a gun, so I essentially start at point zero with most folks and go from there.
Did I ever tell the story about how I got forced to wash a stranger's car at gunpoint, after my bags were illegally searched, because a random person hundreds of feet away misidentified my friends and I as vandals?
Good times.
Was a cop the one holding the gun?
Mind you, I don't think blacks banding together to improve their lot is a bad idea, whether it can be done across all African-Americans or just on a more local level. Or dealing with crime and all the other problems in black communities largely on their own. I'm all for community based and other cooperative solutions.
Well, the last time african americans tried to do something like this en masse, White folks firebombed it from world war I warplanes
Learning about things like this significantly shortened my ideas of "how much time have they had to recover from slavery and why haven't they"
Was a cop the one holding the gun?
...
Was a cop the one holding the gun?...
well, it was implied but never directly stated....