D20 Pro Unlimited Kick starter

[KainPen]

Check out the new D20pro kick starter. I backed it and can't wait to see what these guys come up with next for improvements. The Virtual Table Top, or VTT has as it always been open to any game but was limited to only d20 rules so you had to work with in them. Looks like they are trying to open it up more to the community and allow self development so if you wanted edit the system for a white wolf game that uses only d10 tens you can develop it your self and put it on market place for others to get. D20 Pro is also now owned by Mesa Mundi Inc. I checked out their site these guys make water proof Touch screen and panels. looks like the aim is to get d20 pro working with touch screen technology, so your player could run the app on maybe tablets phones, as well as P.Cs and the touch screens Mesa makes. I seen a you tube video of the guys run D20pro on a Mesa touch screen panel Table made by Geek Chic at the conventions. It looks awesome, The kick starter video talks about some of the stuff they are trying to do and shows some demos of it, There is also a demo of new and improved fog of war system D20pro guys have been working on. Check it out support if you want.

I know from my person experiencing d20 pro and VTT as whole has speed up my combat section of games dramatically instead of 2 to 4 encounters in a 4 hour game session at mid levels, I get 4 to 7 done at high levels now. I seen people on these boards even talk about 1 encounter takes several game session. image doing 4 of those in one session. VTT improved the game speed a that much. Never having to hand draw maps again saves a ton of time. So check it out, you got nothing to lose.

Kickstarter

[demontroll]

The current d20pro is d20 based, so perfect for Pathfinder. With the Unlimited version they want to add functionality to support other game systems.

The Kickstarter looks to be a cheap way to get a d20pro license if you don't already have it, or to upgrade it if you do have it.

[Jeffrey Palmer]

Backed at 50 bucks!

[brvheart]

I am trying to understand why I would back this for more than $5 as I backed the last one and have a full license.

[KainPen]

The only real reason would be for Gen con content and early access if you are not a programer. $50 seem like the best idea for those that are not programers. Just upgrading would be a good idea and helps support it. It would really be nice to have all the stretch goals done when the program gets release instead of having to wait few years for all the content. I made the suggestion to them that they maybe add some Mesa Mundi hardware as rewards, like the water proof LCD touch panel over lays, like the table they used at Cons for display. As for non-programer only way to get more then $50 would be for stuff like that. Looks like they added some FAQ to the kick starter page explaining some things. Also responded to my suggestion and I am sure others made the same suggestion. That they are brain storming possibility of hardware rewards. I have a feeling if they hit 55K stretch goals or close to it they may add hardware rewards. As that stretch goal deal with touch screen, and several users.

[Jib916]

A serious question.

What can this VTT offer/do well that can not be done with Roll20.net?

[KainPen]

Automation is d20pro big thing, thus making the game faster and setup for on the fly encounters a lot faster also. Unlike other VTTs which require you to build macros,macro nesting or scripts. It is already included in D20pro. They are how ever going to add options for that.
Because of this focus there fog of war lack dynamic lighting. Which seems to me one of the only good things I have seen on other VTTs, but even then those VTTs require extra programing on GM part of setting up that lighting or making macros for it. Most of them quick and easy fog of war system preform just like d20pros. D20pro will be fixed that feature in new version at some point.

This is the point of the kick starter is to get these things add these sooner by be able able to higher more developers or just devote more time on the software.

It keep track of all things a character can do. Spell per day, bonus spells all skills, all your attacks and special attacks, there saves dc and when you use them everything is done automatically, with conformation being sent to gm to confirm fail pass or even adjust damage delete. DR and regeneration is already implemented into the system . Even critical hit effects such as shocking burst that only go off on a critical. you do not have to write a macro for any of it, you just input the number amounts.

Also hero lab and other pc character generators are supported can be imported into the system characters and monster built in those system into d20pro. Thus all monsters in pathfinder system if you have access to those things are already created for you. You just important them to the system from those program are from another gm or player on the net.

I never used roll20 because I found d20pro long before it. Does is require you to be online to use it? I could not find anything but seem like it does as you need to log in to accounts to access your information. Also the lack of software installation also suggest it requires online only as everything is saved in cloud format. Does it support LAN games? D20pro does install software, but does provide lan support for and that is what I use it for. The internet option is there and my players use when they physical can't make a game because work sent them out of town. They can still join the lan system d20 pro work with both networks seamlessly.

roll20 does have innate video and audio conference. d20pro you need extra software for now. but it is on the list of add ons for next year, could happen sooner depending on how this kick starter goes.

roll20 has a limit of 5mb size map (the video chanting may be the cause of this limit as there is only so much bandwidth internet speeds), d20pro size is limited by ram and bandwidth and video card. LAN games you can have 20meg maps load a lot faster with Gigbit switch and nic cards or AC wireless standards which are all faster then internet speeds, but this limits will be similar for internet play internet bandwidth being the huge limiting factor.

Roll20 does also have 3d dice that can be rolled across the table, and a sound board system. This is fluff stuff and take up time of develop of actually rules interrogation and automation function which are much better choices in saving time for both gm and players. but guess what it is on the list to add next year for d20pro. could happen sooner based on results this kick starter.

d20pro also runs in 64bit java giving the software more access to system ram and more use of your processor.

is roll20 really free? no there is a monthly subscription cost for extra cloud storage space(biggest gimic and scam in the world and is going to cost people tons more money then an actual portable thumb drive. with the end of net neutrality. But that a completely different topic and debate.)access to features early and so on. d20pro no extra cost I been running the software for 6 years now I have not paid for a single upgrade and even got to beta test every version upgrade be able to give input on changes and suggestion before official release of updates as do most users do. This is the first time I have actual had to pay for and upgrade and it $10 to upgrade $5 if you catch it during this kick starter. But this upgrade cost make sense as it is a complete rebuild of the systems core to make it even more flexible then it already is.

I have checked out all the other VTT that you pay for and all of them are not much different then roll20 and roll20 is partly free. So they are lacking compared to d20pro.

I watched a few videos on roll20 and while it seem and looks simple at first glance it is really clunky for DM and time consume during game time. D20 pro seem smoother especially after you learn the hot keys on keyboard. chat windows in roll20 seems to you to have to put in special commands to do whisper and tell functions ect, while you can do that in d20pro you don't have to that. It is just simple right click of the player name in the chat log or character on game table to add there conversation to log.

It not that roll20 is bad it is very good consider it is mostly free and has some nice visual to let the game still feel like a table top game and not so much a video game. It a fine line D20pro people have been walking between d20pro playing like a video game and just being a tool for dm and they done it wonderful by keeping the system open and trying not to confine it to just one rule set despite it original programing. I would recommended roll20 for people on a budget and don't mind extra work and programing macros and scripts ect., but you are going to spend 30 bucks anyway. I going to say go with d20pro, you get what you pay for and get to be lazy and save your self some time. That ultimately what it boils down to you pay to be lazy.

[Jeffrey Palmer]

brvheart wrote:

I am trying to understand why I would back this for more than $5 as I backed the last one and have a full license.

Personally I'm backing at that to get the extra content and add a couple of openings for players, right now I'm at 3. But also to help support them. I bought the program 2 or 3 years ago and have used it monthly since then and it's kept me gaming when distant would have made that impossible (have buddies in Egypt, Germany and Virginia), and want to say thanks and to encourage them to keep coming up with new and innovative stuff (hex maps! fog of war! better ability damage integration! etc). That's my two cents!

[The Dalesman]

I just backed this yesterday...and it looks like they made their initial funding goal this morning!

Let's see how many stretch goals we can reach in the next 32 days (^-^)

Your Friendly Neighborhood Dalesman
"Bringing Big D**n Justice to the Bad Guys Since 1369 DR"

[KainPen]

I am going to make a few other suggest for them, they need to have other rewards to reach some of those stretch goal, I know they have partnered with 3rd party pathfinder publisher in the past. maybe they can do $150 reward for Rappan Athuk by Frog God Games you could maybe get all the download content as well as pdf copy of the adventure. It would require no work on both the 3rd party or D20pro guys as all that content already exist. That way you have easy ready to go adventure. It just you have to get them separately pdf and d20pro configuration of adventure encounters.

[Jeffrey Palmer]

Hey KainPen, if you have any power over there, I'd be happy to up my support for more converted content! :-) I already gots all the Frog God stuff that's out, but would always love more already set up materials to use and loot.

[KainPen]

No power, Just a big supporter like you. Don't work for them or anything, never even met the guys. Cause I don't go to cons, but I was pretty active on their message boards and a guy selected to beta test several of the upgrades a few times. They help me program the system to run 2 edition AD&D. I did have a few of my suggestion make into 3.4 upgrade. Such as dice fudging ability on dm conformation. you know where you click the d20 and can manual type in the number on the roll and it changes it before it shows up in the log. I made that suggest because you have something scripted for an RP encounter and pc gets pissed off and attack the npc. So how you let the player actual do his attack make him feel like he in control of his character and still miss the npc. Well actual let him pick attack and roll. Just edit the number rolls he see a lower number rolled and feel comfortable with his miss. Or maybe the dice are just rolling to good you as a dm and you almost TPK the party. You can manual adjust the dice roll.

I think I can see their vision and understand it. It was the product I was looking for and hoping for a long time. 3.5 came out and wizards was trying to do a VTT and then talk about it again for 4th edition and it just completely fail and become a dropped project. My friend even tried using never winter knight video game for a while, to run games but it took so long to build all the map and it played like a video game because that what it was. loss the feel of table top game. I also see that they actual listen to the support of gamer who user their product much like pazio does with their play test sessions. So I make suggestion that I think would make me want to spend money on the product or improvements I like to see as gamer.

I made the suggest for 3d dice rolling across the screen as fluffy content, after giving Fantasy grounds a try as it was the recommend VTT for all The White Wolf games I found on white wolfs message boards. Since those games were d10 oriented. But I found it a pain, but loved the dice toss effect and could help balance out that fine line between video game and DM tool that d20pro was walking. It also give the player some feel of they are still throwing dice as that was a big thing in my group, they want to roll their own dice. I let them do it for a long time but once they got into higher level and they were taking way too long. Few of complain all the time about getting a string of low rolls and blame it on the program but never praise it when it rolls a string of high rolls. Most of the ones that complain are the ones who tend to fudge normal dice rolls any way. So it prevents a lot of cheating. I have a feeling that will go away after they add that feature with touch panel work. Which it more important to get programed then the actual dice to me. Since d20pro does not do confirmation rolls on saves yet, it just does pass or save and you can manual change it to fail or pass. I have my players roll their own saves. So I will enjoy it when d20pro add it next year all those features.

I did send my suggestion and directed them to this board maybe they will have someone come on here and answer question for people and tell other people about the product better than I can.

[Jeffrey Palmer]

Not to go off topic, but I might give Fantasy Grounds a shot, I had wanted something to run a Fate game on, where it would be easy to post Aspects, images and such, much less tactical, etc... Might give it a shot. But for Pathfinder d20Pro rocks! And thanks for suggesting the manual dice fudge- I've used that a few time too!

[brvheart]

That is part of my issue. I originally got d20Pro to use the Material from the RA kickstarter. However, they have stated that they will not be doing any more VTT support in the near future as they do not have anyone on staff to do it and costs have always exceeded sales. I have all the current content, but it looks like there will not be any more FGG content any time soon if ever. I used it quite a bit playing RA, but as of late I don't use it much and have never used my 6 player licenses.

[Jeffrey Palmer]

brvheart wrote:

That is part of my issue. I originally got d20Pro to use the Material from the RA kickstarter. However, they have stated that they will not be doing any more VTT support in the near future...

That stinks. I've loved using the Rappan Athuk stuff and would gladly pay through the nose for Slumbering Tsar. Also suspect I'll feel the same about Sword of Air. But I've also done my own maps and creatures and it is a hell of a lot of work. I'll back it because it's a great system and will keep the fingers crossed for more content, from what ever source.

[Jib916]

Awesome Thanks for your reply KainPen. Sounds interesting. (Though I must admit the simplicity, is something I enjoy with Roll20. )

Just to clear some things up

KainPen wrote:

I never used roll20 because I found d20pro long before it. Does is require you to be online to og in to accounts to access your information. Also the lack of software installation also suggest it requires online only as everything is saved in cloud format. Does it support LAN games?

It does require you to be online (browser based) and is cloud based. Though, I see this more of a pro (easy access) then a con. It does not have LAN capability.

KainPen wrote:

Roll20 does have innate video and audio conference.

Yes they do. Though for most the games I play with we need to use Google Hangouts / Skype for communications, as they are better quality .

KainPen wrote:

roll20 has a limit of 5mb size map (the video chanting may be the cause of this limit as there is only so much bandwidth internet speeds)

This isn't necessarily true. There is a 5mb (10mb for subscribers) limit to each upload (graphic). Multiple graphics can be put together to create maps on a page. There is no limit on "Page" (map) size.

KainPen wrote:

is roll20 really free? no there is a monthly subscription cost for extra cloud storage space

Yes it is completely free. Anyone can go and in a matter of minutes be in the client, creating games or playing (If they were invited by a GM that already put together a campaign). The subscriptions are purely to support the website/client. They give a little more space (like you mentioned), access to new features first, the ability to create dynamic lighting in games etc. Nothing fancy, but again its more like a monthly donation then a service.

KainPen wrote:

It not that roll20 is bad it is very good consider it is mostly free and has some nice visual to let the game still feel like a table top game and not so much a video game.

This might sum things up. I like using Roll20 for a virtual tabletop. I don't want it to feel like a video game. I like sitting down, stack of books by my side with my friends and rolling dice. Though I prefer to do it face to face, Roll20.net has been a great alternative.

Again thanks for your reply. Will keep an eye on the kickstarter!

[brvheart]

Jeffrey Palmer wrote:

brvheart wrote:

That is part of my issue. I originally got d20Pro to use the Material from the RA kickstarter. However, they have stated that they will not be doing any more VTT support in the near future...

That stinks. I've loved using the Rappan Athuk stuff and would gladly pay through the nose for Slumbering Tsar. Also suspect I'll feel the same about Sword of Air. But I've also done my own maps and creatures and it is a hell of a lot of work. I'll back it because it's a great system and will keep the fingers crossed for more content, from what ever source.

While I would pay for more FGG content also, there just are not enough of a demand for it so I can hardly blame them for dropping it. It was also largely Blonde Frog's deal and she left for Legendary Games.

[Jeffrey Palmer]

brvheart wrote:

While I would pay for more FGG content also, there just are not enough of a demand for it so I can hardly blame them for dropping it.

I hear you. Still stinks though! I too got into d20Pro because of Rappan Athuk and have really gotten a lot out of it. I'll support the Kickstarter and keep looking for new material from what ever source, and when we finish Rappan Athuk (ha ha ha), I'll start converting other stuff. I've had my eyes on taking some of the RA guys down into the Cyclopean Deeps....

[Deylinarr]

my RL group uses d20pro also and overall its pretty great....our biggest issue is that the players cannot modify their own characters and that admin work falls 100% on the GMs shoulders. He also found that the herolab import was not as reliable as he wanted so he's now doing that admin work manually.....

but I enjoy using it as a player, and the GM has definitely been able to do some on the fly stuff as a result of the power the thing has.

[Terek]

KainPen wrote:

...

I know from my person experiencing d20 pro and VTT as whole has speed up my combat section of games dramatically instead of 2 to 4 encounters in a 4 hour game session at mid levels, I get 4 to 7 done at high levels now. I seen people on these boards even talk about 1 encounter takes several game session. image doing 4 of those in one session. VTT improved the game speed a that much.
...

I've run PFS 5-08 The Confirmation in 35 minutes cutting nothing out using D20Pro. Granted, the players played it before and already knew what was in all of the scripted text. When the players get comfortable with it, and you have everything set up... running PFS scenarios can be extremely efficient.

Their spell system leaves a little to be desired, so often we manually do some of it, but simple stuff works great. I need to create some spell like abilities on a GM character to apply common generic affects really easy.

[The smitter]

I looking forward to some of the updates, and I hope a few more people back it