I'm planning a long-term campaign with a set of players with some very monstrous races. We have a Penanggalen witch and an intelligent Bloody Skeleton swashbuckler, for instance. We're going to begin at level 5 - and I am currently trying to figure out how to balance these monstrous races against the rest of the party. There will be at least one player without a template or a monstrous race (human anti-paladin Knight of the Sepulcher archetype). They will be starting at an effective level of 5.
They will be going Mythic at some point, so minor differences in power should become less significant as time goes on. Until then, however, what's a good way to balance out how these races' incredible power fits in with normally-advanced PCs? There's no "Level Adjustment" system in place for Pathfinder, like there was for 3.5.
You could try to calculate their Race Points in the Advanced Race Guide to help determine what category they'd fall into. That way you'd know how they compare to standard races and have some idea what a challenge should be.
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Level Adjustments do not exist in Pathfinder.
The reading comprehension is strong in this one.
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The Monsters as PCs rules are what you're looking for.
Basically, creatures start out counting as a level equal to their CR, then gain levels a little quicker than others until half their original CR counts towards effective character level.
I'm planning a long-term campaign with a set of players with some very monstrous races. We have a Penanggalen witch and an intelligent Bloody Skeleton swashbuckler, for instance. We're going to begin at level 5 - and I am currently trying to figure out how to balance these monstrous races against the rest of the party. There will be at least one player without a template or a monstrous race (human anti-paladin Knight of the Sepulcher archetype). They will be starting at an effective level of 5.
They will be going Mythic at some point, so minor differences in power should become less significant as time goes on. Until then, however, what's a good way to balance out how these races' incredible power fits in with normally-advanced PCs? There's no "Level Adjustment" system in place for Pathfinder, like there was for 3.5.
I beleive pathfinder , for 'balancing monsters', uses a system like : Take the HD of the monster.. thats the base lvl adjustment.. which then "auto buys off" as players level.
The formula looks something like this : HD = base ; hd/3 = "LA buyoff"
ie. Take a 6hd creature, divide by 3 = 2 .. so it would start at "lvl 6" then at lvl 8, would jump to lvl 9, then again at 11, would jump to 12, etc... till the initial hd were all gone
At least this is the way i think the formula works =D
I'm planning a long-term campaign with a set of players with some very monstrous races. We have a Penanggalen witch and an intelligent Bloody Skeleton swashbuckler, for instance. We're going to begin at level 5 - and I am currently trying to figure out how to balance these monstrous races against the rest of the party. There will be at least one player without a template or a monstrous race (human anti-paladin Knight of the Sepulcher archetype). They will be starting at an effective level of 5.
They will be going Mythic at some point, so minor differences in power should become less significant as time goes on. Until then, however, what's a good way to balance out how these races' incredible power fits in with normally-advanced PCs? There's no "Level Adjustment" system in place for Pathfinder, like there was for 3.5.
There is two possibillities:
-CR = Level adjustment as in the Monster Manuals
-Build the monsters as custom races like the in the Advanced Race Guide
If you go with the full powered monster characters there might be balance issuses.
Penangalenwitch sounds highly flavourful. The Penangalens statboni and immunities more than make up for one lost class level, even though those don't really syncronize well with the witches abillities.
If you wanna weaken the Penangalen, make shure some adventures take places during daytime. This will keep her from flying and using her special attacks during the adventures.
The bloody Skeleton is kinda tricky, since those things normally cannot have class levels. Now I guess you can just give +1 extra CR, since dat Skeleton still gains much less than our witch. Also you should ignore the mental scores being fixed. The Skeleton only gains some minor boni, Deathless and it's Undead immunities.
This guy shouldn't be able to really outshine another character with +1 CR.
About buffing the Antipaladin: It's pretty sad the guy chose an Archetype, whose main stick is slowly gaining the immunities your other players have since lvl 1.
My way of buffing the guy up be bringing him to the same powerlevel as a Paladin by allowing him to heal himself with Touch of Corruption from the get go and allowing him to cast from the Paladin list too making alignment switched versions of the good spells.
You might also just give him the advanced Template. He is still human, just a genetically gifted specimen.
Also, don't be a jerk.
Sorry, tone was supposed to come off as snarky not jerky.
The Monsters as PCs rules are what you're looking for.
Basically, creatures start out counting as a level equal to their CR, then gain levels a little quicker than others until half their original CR counts towards effective character level.
This is great. Thanks!
At this point, I think I am planning to just heavily alter most of the players' templates. So far, 3 of the 4 players have DR and Fast Healing, and one guy just wants to have the Giant template. I think I'm just gonna remove the DR from everyone and the FH from everybody except the intelligent Bloody Skeleton - and maybe tweak the ability score bonuses from the other templates so they're a little more in line. The Penanggalen is probably the most broken template - with Str, Dex, and Con damage/drain attacks. Though I'll be honest, I just can't wait to see the floating head with the 30 ft. reach hair grapple attacks. The Bloody Skeleton is hyper-optimizing a Dervish Dancing Swashbuckler, so at level 5 he deals around 1d6+26 damage on a swing. I'm hoping the Giant Antipaladin (not as much of an optimizer by any means) will be able to keep up. He's definitely excited about mythic enlarge person making him colossal, though. :P
Penangalenwitch sounds highly flavourful. The Penangalens statboni and immunities more than make up for one lost class level, even though those don't really syncronize well with the witches abillities.
If you wanna weaken the Penangalen, make shure some adventures take places during daytime. This will keep her from flying and using her special attacks during the adventures.
Well, she's a white-haired witch, so she's actually pretty synergistic. She's gonna be grappling people like crazy. She's like a beautiful elven maiden, and she goes full "Japanese ghost girl/Samara from The Ring" on people when the combat starts.
The bloody Skeleton is kinda tricky, since those things normally cannot have class levels. Now I guess you can just give +1 extra CR, since dat Skeleton still gains much less than our witch. Also you should ignore the mental scores being fixed. The Skeleton only gains some minor boni, Deathless and it's Undead immunities.
This guy shouldn't be able to really outshine another character with +1 CR.
He's intending to be a bit of a comic relief character, who gets blasted into a pile of bones at the slightest opportunity, but then reforms as a skeleton. The guy's a very skilled min/maxer so he's gonna kick ass simply by virtue of being a Dervish Dance swashbuckler with a 26 Dexterity...
I also ignored all mental ability adjustments for him.
About buffing the Antipaladin: It's pretty sad the guy chose an Archetype, whose main stick is slowly gaining the immunities your other players have since lvl 1.
My way of buffing the guy up be bringing him to the same powerlevel as a Paladin by allowing him to heal himself with Touch of Corruption from the get go and allowing him to cast from the Paladin list too making alignment switched versions of the good spells.
You might also just give him the advanced Template. He is still human, just a genetically gifted specimen.
He already does the self-healy lay on hands thing, since we're beginning at level 5 (the level that they get healed by negative energy). I also like the idea of giving him the Paladin spell list. I'll also let him take a second Paladin archetype if he wants to, and swap any Good powers for the alternative.
(It's worth noting that he's not an Antipaladin, he's an Antidisestablishmentaladin - since he's Lawful Evil. :P)
The final character is using a 3rd party "Ravenous" template, and is basically a cannibal Halfling Slayer who uses the Childlike feat to seem innocent, cute, and adorable, until she rips out your liver and starts lacerating you with claws and fangs. She has Tomb-Tainted Soul, so she's healed by negative energy too. I feel like she needs a little more "oomph."
We're also potentially going to be joined by an incorporeal Bones Oracle (not sure if he's gonna get a full template and be a Ghost or something, or just the Undead type and the Incorporeal subtype). This guy would be brand-new to Pathfinder but he really wants to try a spontaneous caster, and I think an Oracle would be a great fit.
Be sure to really familiarize yourself with the creature's special abilities.
Things that are a bit ho hum as a monster, can be very powerful in the hands of a PC.
Yeah. The players are all "Oh, it's just +1 CR, it won't be that big of a deal!" but I know better. The Pennanggalen is the strongest template so far - that ability damage/drain can be nasty (especially she gets temporary hit points from it - not sure if she does). Luckily they're going to be fighting a disproportional number of positive-channeling clerics and paladins, so the incorporeal one should be kept in check a bit.
I think that if I get rid of the fast healing (except for the skeleton - that's his shtick) and damage reduction, I can reign in the brokenness a bit. I might need to nerf the Pennanggalen's powerful ability damage a bit - but is it really that bad? And I don't think I want her to be able to Create Spawn.