Simple as possible, eh?
Rogue: Full BAB progression.
Fighter: Good will save progression, remove Bravery.
Monk: At 6th level, can do first two attacks from a flurry as a standard action.
Some updates to my previous response.
Rogue: Full BAB progression.
Fighter: Good will save progression, remove Bravery. 4+INT skill points.
Monk: At 6th level, can do first two attacks from a flurry as a standard action, or in concert with Spring Attack/Flyby Attack.
Wizard: Make changing which spells are prepared a more time consuming process, so that it cannot be easily done every day.
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One of the things I've tried with the fighter was to make their extra combat feat ability work more like the rangers and allow them to ignore prerequisites.
It needed a bit of tweaking. BAB/Level prerequisites remained as it was easier than going through all the combat feats and listing which are available at specific levels like the ranger bonus feats, also things like class prerequisites remained to avoid some very silly combinations.
That's a pretty exciting idea actually.
I had a thought for the fighter. Consider giving them this ability:
Martial Flexibility: Once per day, by spending one hour in martial training, a fighter may change what combat feats he has, exchanging combat feats for other combat feats on a one to one basis. He may change a number of feats each day equal to 1/2 his fighter level (min 1). He may not trade away feats that are prerequisites of other feats he has (unless he also trades away those feats), nor feats that are requirements for other abilities or prestige classes he has. He may not gain a feat in this way that has a BAB requirement greater than his fighter level (This requirement is here to prevent other classes from gaining the full benefit with a single level dip.)
Alternatively, once he has the weapon training class feature, the fighter may spend the hour either changing the weapon training group that he has a +1 bonus for, OR exchanging the order of two groups he has weapon training in. He must have a weapon of the group he is adding or moving to a higher bonus to practice with, in order to do this.
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I like the flavor of it, but is it too powerful? I mean, obviously it's no more powerful than being able to change spells on a day to day basis, but does it put the fighter ahead of other martials? I don't think so, but I'm not sure. Obviously it would make the generic fighter feat retraining obsolete.
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Fighter: Good will save progression, remove Bravery. 4+INT skill points.
I think most of the community believes these are the obvious fixes. I'd love to see fighters get a bit more versatility in combat, though, which is why I suggested adopting the brawler's ability to swap out combat feats on the fly.
As for rogues, what about just giving them poison use by default instead of making them have to juggle archetypes to get something that should already be standard in their toolbox?
I know this will sound obvious, but I think a good fix for fighters is making feats that gives them more things to do rather than feats that simply increase bonuses or reduce penalties.
For Rogue, I would give them a "Luck Pool" of 1, +1 at levels 5, 10, 15, and 20. A number of times per day equal to his Charisma modifier (minimum 1), he can rearrange the points of his Luck Pool as follows:
+1 Luck Bonus to AC and CMD
+1 Luck Bonus to Attack Rolls and CMB
+1 Luck Bonus to Saving Throws
+1 Luck Bonus to Skill Checks
+2 Luck Bonus to Initiative Rolls
The Luck Bonuses stack with themselves and last 24 hours or until they are re-arranged.
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For monks, Full BAB and 1d10 HD.
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For fighters, add talents instead of Bravery, with abilities similar to the Strong (and maybe Fast and Tough) Hero class talents from d20 Modern.
Fighter rogue fix: Gestalt both classes together.
Monk fix: Take the monk armor bonus and make it a monk bonus that also applies to CMB, to-hit, and damage (it already applied to CMD).
Wizard fix: No blood money. Planar binding summons creatures instead of calling them (making them fall under summon monster limitations and removes/reduces chance for backlash). Simulacrums also have to follow summon monster limitations (no free wishes). Geas/Quest gains a saving throw (will negates).
General Game "fix": allow everything from DSP Ultimate Psionics and encourage players to just play those classes.
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Alright, good stuff so far, guys. Here's the next challenge, and you probably won't be able to fix it with a +1 here or there.
How do we fix paladins? I'm not talking about how to alter their damage output or survivability. The complaints we seem to always hear about paladins are more on the soft side. How do you play a paladin who adheres to his strict alignment requirement, without annoying, aggravating, or otherwise negatively affecting the rest of the party?
This isn't a role-playing discussion, either. As stated in the original post, I'm looking for the simplest possible amount of rules you can use to fix the paladin. Let's see what you've got.
Alright, good stuff so far, guys. Here's the next challenge, and you probably won't be able to fix it with a +1 here or there.
How do we fix paladins? I'm not talking about how to alter their damage output or survivability. The complaints we seem to always hear about paladins are more on the soft side. How do you play a paladin who adheres to his strict alignment requirement, without annoying, aggravating, or otherwise negatively affecting the rest of the party?
This isn't a role-playing discussion, either. As stated in the original post, I'm looking for the simplest possible amount of rules you can use to fix the paladin. Let's see what you've got.
I'm afraid there isn't a rules fix to role-playing in a way that annoys the party.
This. I'd say the best you can do is clarify that the "lawful" part of a paladin's alignment lies with supporting their god's paladin code. Overall, people need to realize that:
1) There's many ways to interpret any alignment and characters can have drastically different ideals under the same alignment.2) Any adventuring paladin knows that adventuring life will test their tenets and force them in situations where following the code isn't the most obvious or practical. Realistically, a paladin adventurer will mentally prepare themselves for this and find ways to compromise or discover creative solutions to ethical problems. For example, a paladin might oppose torture, but suggest other methods of coercion.
Also, a good roleplayer will use moral dilemmas to bring out character development. The other party members should consider this, too. Good companions will respect an allied paladin's ideals, even if they might not agree with them, just as a good paladin will take a practical approach to their faith and compromise with the party's best interests. A bad paladin will use their alignment as a straight-jacket to the party while a bad party will troll the paladin.
Mechanically, I'd like to see their MAD get reduced a little, even though I like that they scale with Charisma.
Change all of the paladin's Charisma based abilities to Wisdom based. Wisdom therefore won't be a dump stat, and the player has no excuse for playing a character that makes foolish decisions in the name of being "good."
I really like the idea of a martial that functions as the party's face. I honestly can't think of any other martial that uses Charisma aside from maybe a ACG class. It also makes sense for the paladin because the entire flavor of the class involves a champion that leaves a big impression socially and in battle in their god's name. But I see your point there.
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So there's already a rule in place to make sure paladins behave lawful good. What I'm looking for is a rule that can make them work better in a party environment where the other characters might not even be good. Naturally, this can be accomplished by hand-waving away character conflict, but what I'd like to see is a simple, straightforward rule that could really enforce this.
I see it as really a matter of how you view the ability scores. I see the ability scores having these meanings. I saw someone else mention this interpretation and rather liked it.
- Intelligence involves your ability to mentally process, retain, and apply information.
- Charisma involves your ability to project your will externally, influencing people and even the world.
- Wisdom involves your ability to apply your will internally, disciplining your mind for stability and clarity.
So when I think of the paladin, I think of someone who externalizes their god's tenets whereas a cleric internalizes them. The paladin's auras and ability to directly cure illnesses through touch exemplify this. I really like this distinction and creates a thematic difference between a cleric and a paladin, which is very important to me. One of the large reasons I hated 4th Edition paladins was that, fluffwise, they were basically clerics slightly better at fighting.
I do agree that it feels weird paladins don't use Wisdom when they have to follow a code. But that raises a more important question: why do paladins have a defined code, but not clerics or other divine casters? I notice that most paladin code tenets focus on behavior and actions. Some do involve internalizing beliefs, but almost always to the effect of displaying and exemplifying those beliefs outwardly. I personally see the paladin code as guidelines to how a paladin should influence the world with their force of personality in a way appropriate to their god.
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Let's keep on going. Our next challenge is the gunslinger. Lots of people say they ban this class from their games, and not just because of the weapon technology level they've chosen. Based on that situation, what is the simplest possible modification to the class you could make to bring it in line with the rest?
I gave a lot of suggestions what to do about the gunslinger here.
Let's keep on going. Our next challenge is the gunslinger. Lots of people say they ban this class from their games, and not just because of the weapon technology level they've chosen. Based on that situation, what is the simplest possible modification to the class you could make to bring it in line with the rest?No firearms?
This made me laugh. Thank you.
Fighter "Martial Exploits":
At 1st level the fighter gains an exploit pool. At the start of each day, a fighter gains a number of exploit points equal to 1/2 his fighter level + Wisdom modifier (minimum 1). These points go up or down throughout the day, but usually cannot go higher than his maximum. A fighter uses exploits to accomplish heroic feats, and regains his exploits in the following ways.
Personal Challenge: The fighter may elect to challenge himself in order to regain his martial exploits. In order to do this, he must set for himself a personal challenge. This personal challenge must be performed against a challenging foe, encounter, or other circumstance deemed appropriate by the GM. For example, a fighter might attempt to defeat a powerful foe in single combat, a less powerful foe without being struck, or defeat an enemy with only tricky or challenging called shots. The fighter may set any number of personal challenges for himself during the day, but only one can be active at a time. If he triumphs over his challenge, he regains 1 exploit point.
Critical Hit: Each time the fighter rolls a natural 20 and confirms the critical, he regains 1 exploit point.
Fighters spend exploit points to accomplish heroic feats:
Focused Strike: As a free action, the fighter can spend 1 exploit point to gain a +1 insight bonus to his next attack.
Forceful Blow: As a free action, the fighter can spend 1 exploit point to gain a +1 insight bonus to damage for the next attack that hits within the next round.
Vigilant Stance: As a free action, the fighter can spend 1 exploit point to gain a +2 insight bonus to his CMD for one round. This ability may be used after an opponent attempts a combat maneuver on the fighter but only before the results of the roll are known.
Bold Maneuver: As a free action, the fighter can spend 1 exploit point to gain a +2 insight bonus to his CMB for one round. This ability must be used before the fighter attempts a combat maneuver.
Combat Focus: As a free action, the fighter can spend 1 exploit point to gain a +2 insight bonus to a single skill check made during combat. This ability must be used before the fighter attempts the skill check. These bonuses stack.
Quick Steps: As a swift action, the fighter can spend 2 exploit points to increase the distance of his 5-foot step by 5 feet for one round. The fighter must be level 6 to use this ability.
Decisive Stroke: As a standard action, the fighter can spend 2 exploit points to deliver a powerful strike. The fighter can make one attack at his highest base attack bonus. Roll the weapon's damage dice for the attack twice and add the results together before adding bonuses from Strength, weapon abilities, precision-based damage, and other damage bonuses. These extra weapon damage dice are not multiplied on a critical hit, but are added to the total.
etc. I figure since Gunslinger was originally going to be an alternate class for fighter(like ninja and samurai), giving the fighter a resource pool allows for more adaptability. I'm still kind of tinkering with it.
I also have an idea that replaces the straight fighter bonus feats with a set of two feats. He can prepare one from each "pool" at the beginning of the day and use his exploits to swap between them. So at level 2 my fighter takes Point-Blank Shot and Cleave. At level 4 he takes Weapon Specialization (Greatsword) and Iron Will. Or whatever. And then I can spend a point to switch my Cleave to PBS, or my Iron Will to Weapon Specialization. The fighter can also use these pools to wade through gateway feats for chains quicker, as he counts for having them for the purpose of prerequisites.
Maybe not as simple as requested. I guess. Woops =P
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Rogue: Full BAB progression
Fighter: Good Will Save, 4+INT skill ranks, and a new ability I'd call Follow Through
Follow Through: When making a full attack, a fighter may move an additional 5 feet (up to her full movement) for each iterative attack she may make. She make take this movement before, during, or after her attacks. For any movement beyond the first 5 foot step, this movement provokes attacks of opportunity as normal.
Monk: d10 hit dice, and the following amendment to the Ki Strike power:
As long as he has at least 1 point in his ki pool, he can make a ki strike.
4th: ki strike allows his unarmed attacks to be treated as magic weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction. The monk may add his wisdom bonus to hit with any unarmed strike, and to his CMB for any combat manuever.
10th: his unarmed attacks are also treated as lawful weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction. The monk may add his wisdom bonus to damage with any unarmed strike.
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We've seen a lot of great ideas here, but just to remind everyone once again: This thread isn't about major changes to the core game system or rewriting entire classes. What we're looking for is how to fix various problems in the game with the fewest possible new rules and overall words. The most efficient way to do that is by altering the numbers (like changing a class's BAB progression, as most of us agree needs to happen to the rogue and monk) or cut-and-pasting abilities from one class to another.
Okay, gang, let's see what you've got! Next up: The sorcerer.
It's generally accepted that wizards are superior to sorcerers in Pathfinder, so what is the simplest possible fix we could make to put them back on equal footing, where choosing between them is purely a matter of role-playing and play-style preference without having to make a significant sacrifice in overall effectiveness?
It's generally accepted that wizards are superior to sorcerers in Pathfinder, so what is the simplest possible fix we could make to put them back on equal footing, where choosing between them is purely a matter of role-playing and play-style preference without having to make a significant sacrifice in overall effectiveness?
The one I've heard most often is to give them (and oracles) spell levels at the same time as wizards and clerics (2nd level spells at 3rd level, 3rd at 5th, etc.). Question is, does that make them more powerful than their prepared counterparts? If so, how much more and what other solution could be used?
I like this solution for sorcerers:
In addition to gaining their bloodline spells as normal, they gain them as a 1/day each SLA earlier, at level = (spell level * 2) - 1; the same level where wizards would get their new spell level.
So at 5th level, a draconic bloodline sorcerer has added mage armor and resist energy to their spell list, and have SLA 1/day - mage armor, resist energy, fly.
This would mean they actually have a slot benefit over wizards (unlike now where they're after in slots half the levels), it further differentiates different bloodlines from each other, lessens the spell level envy, and does all this without granting them the versatility of wizards (which is the main balance issue with casters; not so much power as versatility).
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About a year ago, on a cold and uneventful Friday night, I had a "brilliant" idea; I thought I would make some small tweaks to every class and the system itself as part of a Game Design Exercise. I decided to start with the Fighter, and make a progression table up to level 10 that very same night, and... I never found the time or motivation to keep going.
That said, here is a rough draft without any serious editing or deep balance considerations - mostly a brainstorming pile of ideas. Anyhow, without further ado,
Lv - Special
1 -- Bonus Feat, Combat Expert
2 -- Bonus Feat, Bravery(1/day), War Scars
3 -- Armor Training, Tuition Focus
4 -- Bonus Feat, Mental Fortitude
5 -- Weapon Training
6 -- Bonus Feat, Bravery(2/day), Tuition Focus
7 -- Armor Training, Veteran
8 -- Bonus Feat, Combat Master
9 -- Weapon Training, Tuition Focus, Martial Prowess (1/day)
10 - Bonus Feat, Versatile Training, Bravery(3/day)
Combat Expert(Ex): A fighter adds 1/2 his fighter level (minimum 1) to his Ability Scores and Base Attack Bonus for the purposes of qualifying for Combat Feats. A fighter never provokes an attack of opportunity when performing a combat maneuver.
Bravery(Ex): At second level, once per day, a fighter can call upon his bravery to overcome difficult challenges. As an immediate action, after the result of any d20 roll the fighter just made is revealed, he may add 1d6 to the result. At 6th level, and every 4 levels thereafter the fighter may use his Bravery one additional time per day.
Upon reaching 6th level, the fighter can expend one use of his bravery to immediately receive another saving throw against any spells or effects already affecting the fighter.
War Scars(Ex): At 2nd level and higher, a fighter adds 1/2 his fighter level to Intimidate Checks. A fighter may use his Strength modifier instead of his Charisma modifier on Intimidate Checks.
Tuition Focus(Ex): At 3rd level and every 3 levels thereafter, a fighter gains Skill Focus as bonus feat. If the chosen Skill is not a class Skill, it becomes a class Skill.
Mental Fortitude(Ex): At 4th level, a fighter gains a bonus equal to his Constitution Modifier (if any) on all Will Saving Throws.
Weapon Training(Ex): Starting at 5th level, a fighter can select one group of weapons, as noted below. The fighter becomes proficient will all weapons that belong to this group, any feat that affects a single weapon type (such as Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization, or Greater Weapon Focus), affect all weapons from this group, and whenever he attacks with a weapon from this group, he gains a +1 bonus on attack and damage rolls ...
Veteran(Ex): At 7th level, a fighter adds 1/2 his fighter level to a Knowledge Skill of his choice. If the chosen Knowledge Skill is not a class Skill it becomes a class Skill.
Combat Master(Ex): Starting at 8th level, a fighter's footwork allow him to move through 5 feet of difficult terrain each round as if it were normal terrain. This ability allows the fighter to take a 5-foot step into difficult terrain. A fighter can use his Combat Maneuver Bonus in place of his Acrobatic Skill bonus on Acrobatic Skill Checks.
Martial Prowess(Ex): Starting at 9th level, once per day, a fighter can perform an overwhelming show of martial prowess as a Standard action. All foes within 30 feet who can see or hear the fighter's display become fascinated, stunned, frightened or dazed for 2d4 rounds. Any incorporeal creature affected by this ability can be dealt damage normally.
A will saving throw (DC 10 + 1/2 fighter's level + fighter's Strength modifier) negates the affect. Abilities such as weapon Training, and feats such as Weapon Focus and Greater Weapon Focus increase the DC of Martial Prowess. This ability has no effect on creatures with an intelligence score of 2 or lower.
At 14th level, a fighter can use Martial Prowess as a move action instead of a standard action. At 19th level, a fighter can use Martial Prowess as a swift action.
At 14th and 19th level, the fighter may use Martial Prowess one additional time day.
Versatile Training(Ex): Starting at 10th level, once per day, a fighter can choose a time at which he must spend 1 hour warming up, training, and/or sparring to change any and/or all of his selected Weapon Training weapon groups.
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Next challenge! In the fewest possible edits, fix the cavalier. It's kind of crappy that there's another charisma-dependent warrior (after the paladin) who also depends on being mounted for a lot of his abilities, yet even with the mount is nowhere near as overall effective as a paladin. What can we do to change this and make the decision between a cavalier and a paladin purely based on role-playing preference and not being afraid of being gimped, stuck with a watered down fighter whenever he's (often) forced to dismount?
Just an off-the-cuff and not fleshed out idea, but I'd dump the mount-dependency altogether and flesh out the cavalier with the marshal's aura abilities.
At the moment, the cavalier is really only good at being denied uses of his class feature's do to impractical design.
My opinion, of course.
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Just an off-the-cuff and not fleshed out idea, but I'd dump the mount-dependency altogether and flesh out the cavalier with the marshal's aura abilities.
That's a good start. Turn him from "half-ass paladin that turns into half-ass fighter during the 75-90% of the game where you can't be mounted" into "front-line bard."
That's a good start. Turn him from "half-ass paladin that turns into half-ass fighter during the 75-90% of the game where you can't be mounted" into "front-line bard."
That is it in a nutshell and phrased much better than the way I did, lol.
Your "half-ass paladin" statement also gave me another thought: if the marshal didn't fly, you could always make him into an "arcane" paladin, i.e. slap a 4 level arcane spell list on him (likely based on the magus' list).
I prefer the first, but the second is a "concept" Pathfinder hasn't fleshed out, either.
Honestly, depending on campaign cavalier can be at least as effective as a paladin. Only in the dungeon-crawliest of campaigns will you be dismounted "75-90% of the time".
But a simple solution might be to let the cavalier choose between all the mount-related abilities, and inspire courage as a bard of her level.
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Honestly, depending on campaign cavalier can be at least as effective as a paladin. Only in the dungeon-crawliest of campaigns will you be dismounted "75-90% of the time".
Of course, if you're involved in some sort of outdoors, overland campaign like a land war, cavaliers are probably quite effective. But let's be honest, Pathfinder isn't based on a game called "Fields & Formations." :)
But a simple solution might be to let the cavalier choose between all the mount-related abilities, and inspire courage as a bard of her level.
I'd like to see an unmounted cavalier who provides his companions with all kinds of melee bonuses. He leads the charge, rallies his team, and strikes fear into the heart of their enemies. Maybe its an archetype like the standard bearer that completely foregoes the mount stuff in exchange for more banner abilities?
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My problem with the cavalier is not the mounted combat but the fact altought he is a mounted combat specialist still has a lot of the limitations mounts has. I mean paladins mount is way more strong, that doesnt seem right. How about giving him:
Mount Expert:
At level 1. While a cavalier is on his mount it ignores squishing and can share space with friendly characters. For terrain purposes the mount is always treated as a medium creature
At level 5 . The mount becomes a magical beast and the cavalier can call it from anywhere as a swift action. The mount appears on the same spot of the cavalier and is inmediately mounted by him
At level 10. The mount get the advanced single template
At level 15. The mount gets the celestial or fiendish simple template and gets flight as a supernatural ability
.....................................................................
I know is poorly worded but i guess the general idea is understandable
The mount system, in my opinion, is just too poor of a system to base a class around.
If your focus is being a badass while mounted and a raging pounce barbarian with a lance is scarier without a mount, you might as well just go fishing. The barbarian will need a nice meal to recover his strength when he's done being better than you on foot than you are mounted.
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Well its true the barbarian is probably one of the strongest if not the strongest melee combatant. On a note however there is a at least one cavalier build which outdprs the basic barbarian altought probably not the most optimized barbarian.
I always felt the intent with the cavalier was to make a viable mounted combatant, but it always had the short end of the stick, plus none of the real problems with mounts were addressed(space, dungeons, mobility etc). To be fair the cavalier can deal a retarded amount of damage on charges, but this is gimped due to space and dungeons.
I may end up making a cavalier archetype that dumps the mount focus for "inspirations" similar to the marshal and call it the "gallant" or something similar.
I think using the challenge or some such to give them an ability to grant temporary hit points to the party, with secondary effects might be the way to go for it, similar to a cleric's channel energy with the variant channeling rules or a couple "auras". As you mention above, they can be situationally effective, but I hate classes built around a situationally useful mechanic.
Edit: Looks like I won't have to Rite Publishing already made one
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To be fair the cavalier can deal a retarded amount of damage on charges
A whole class that depends on a single, specific combat action? It sounds lame when you put it that way, but it gives me hope that my custom class, the Luchador, will be well-received. :)
Okay, are you guys ready for the next challenge? Here it is, and remember: We're looking for the simplest possible fix.
Weapons. What would you change about the weapon system in Pathfinder to make it more balanced, intuitive, and/or streamlined?
For example, I'd probably redesign (re: strip out) the entire size system for weapons. A halfling uses a longsword in two hands, an ogre uses it as an off-hand weapon, etc. The only thing you really need sizes for is unarmed/natural weapon damage, which could be expressed on one simple chart.
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To be fair the cavalier can deal a retarded amount of damage on chargesA whole class that depends on a single, specific combat action? It sounds lame when you put it that way, but it gives me hope that my custom class, the Luchador, will be well-received. :)
Okay, are you guys ready for the next challenge? Here it is, and remember: We're looking for the simplest possible fix.
Weapons. What would you change about the weapon system in Pathfinder to make it more balanced, intuitive, and/or streamlined?
For example, I'd probably redesign (re: strip out) the entire size system for weapons. A halfling uses a longsword in two hands, an ogre uses it as an off-hand weapon, etc. The only thing you really need sizes for is unarmed/natural weapon damage, which could be expressed on one simple chart.
He should have easier time doing charges since its his main attack, but he doesnt thats a design flaw tought