So, the books are nice enough to tell you that challenges for a group of 6 or higher should be 1 APL higher. My question is basically this: is there a point where this extra "challenge" simply isn't enough to keep up with the number of players involved?
Assuming that the normal CR calculations apply:
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Group Size APL
2 -1
4 0
6 +1
8 +2
12 +3
16 +4
24 +5
32 +6
Of course, milelage may vary according to build, tactics, terrain and GM bribes. Also, this pattern does break down (as noted in the APL calculation section of the books) due to action economy, so caveat emptor.
Thanks! Does this have a source anywhere, or is it something people have found to work over time?
Uhhh, I was under the impression that the APL was supposed to be adjusted up by 1 for each character over the standard party size of 4. (Conversely, you adjust down by 1 for each player under 4.) I'll look and see if I can find a quote/link for that.
EDIT: I guess I'm a bit wrong...
Step 1—Determine APL: Determine the average level of your player characters—this is their Average Party Level (APL for short). You should round this value to the nearest whole number (this is one of the few exceptions to the round down rule). Note that these encounter creation guidelines assume a group of four or five PCs. If your group contains six or more players, add one to their average level. If your group contains three or fewer players, subtract one from their average level. For example, if your group consists of six players, two of which are 4th level and four of which are 5th level, their APL is 6th (28 total levels, divided by six players, rounding up, and adding one to the final result).
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Calculating appropriate encounters for larger parties tends to be a pain in the butt, and my suggestion is to use CR as a baseline only.
In other words, if you have say 7-8 players, peg it around Level of Party +2, and then fiddle with it until appropriate.
As I've stated before, in other threads of this type, a high CR creature isn't the best solution here.
Also, its more work, but you'll want to divide the xp by the party members instead of just using the 6+ line on the rewards table. A larger party has a commensurately easier time dealing with stuff and so lower xp awards are justifiable.
My current party is 14th level and consists of 7 players, it had 8 prior to that for a while.
Generally, more enemies is better then one huge one. Action economy matters at this point, especially with spellcasters as they can now niche fill better, and once your players learn to ferry, your martials become walking nukes.
That CR 15 dragon might seem scary on paper against a group of say level 12s, but they'll reduce it to kimshee by virtue of being able to act more often then it, negating its advantages and generally tearing it up.
I also suggest making greater use of environmental issues, make the area to move around tougher.
I strongly, strongly advise against making places 'tighter.' Yes it makes it easier to bottleneck the party, but..nobody has fun being stuck behind someone else for five rounds. And this game is about fun, not beating the crap out of your players.
Very true point, Spook. I haven't had to deal with a party larger than six (yet) and I also find that action economy makes a large difference in battles.
I've actually considered treating players beyond the sixth as a "separate party" in terms of determining APL, but I'm not sure whether this is fair to players since I haven't had the opportunity to test it.