i saw one confirmed thng supposedly with pathfinder unleashed is making monks full bab
i was excited to see this as it gives me a small glimpse into what they have in store....but then i was too impatient to wait until 2015 to see what else is coming...so i decided to make my own changes. I also want to note i took some from dabbler as frankly...some of his changes are very good.
So this is a list of my changes, i hope they make sense.
Monk changes
Full bab
Strength in Wisdom-Replaces flurry of blows-The monk may use his/her wisdom modifier for hit/damage.
Bonus feats change-a monk may use his bonus feats to select a bonus style feat or elemental fist feat. He does not need to meet the pre-requisites to select these feats, however the monk CANNOT skip the style feat chains (no taking first then 3rd style feat, must go 1, 2, 3) *im struggling with the wording on this but i think its understandable*
Combat style master-replaces maneuver training
Slow fall addition/change-spend one point of ki to reduce the damage you would take from falling as if you fell half the actual distance
high jump addition/change-spend one point of ki to reduce the DC of a jump by half
Fuse style-replaces wholeness of body, able to fuse 2 styles into a more perfect style, may have up to 2 styles stances activated at a time
Diamond Soul addition/change-needs reworked so it doesnt cause you to die at times...bad mechanic, not sure what to do
Dabblers idea directly copied to here: 2) A monk’s unarmed strike treats the hardness or damage resistance (of any type) of a target as less by one point for every level of monk the character possesses. This is a big one, replacing the existing ki-strike options and making the monk able to attempt to hurt anything.
NOTE: i tried to think of what was a monk to me, a disciplined man who focused his inner energy (ki) and trains in martial arts (style feats) so i baked in a lesser form of MOMS.
with making it full bab, i see no reason to even keep FoB, drop it and if you want its equivalent take TWF feats.
i felt directly incorporating MOMS 5 style feats at 20 was too much and caused too much bloat. rather limit it to two and give free combat style master feat..makes more sense and rewards your style choices better differientiates one monk from another monk.
so is this crap or is it gold?
WIS to hit/damage is a bit much.
Needs d10 HD too.
How about adding a thing where they can Flurry after movement if they move less than or equal to half their basespeed (before fast movement bonus), and then increase it to their full basespeed (still before fast movement bonus) at like level 11.
Looks a bit like what I posted here.
Scroll down to post #4 for the "Martial Artist". Ascetic and Enlightened Warrior are very different.
Barathos wrote: WIS to hit/damage is a bit much.
Needs d10 HD too.
How about adding a thing where they can Flurry after movement if they move less than or equal to half their basespeed (before fast movement bonus), and then increase it to their full basespeed (still before fast movement bonus) at like level 11.
no it isnt, its no worse then a fighter.
fighter uses STR for hit/damage, DEX for initiative,AC, and con for hp.
monk use WIS for hit/damage, DEX for initiative, AC, and con for hp
how is it too much making them just as mad/sad as a fighter would be?
and no, flurry has no point when you make a character full bab, its designed to basically give TWF for free and inflate you to full bab when using it. instead, make them full bab and you can spec for TWF if desired.
Barathos wrote: WIS to hit/damage is a bit much.
Needs d10 HD too.
How about adding a thing where they can Flurry after movement if they move less than or equal to half their basespeed (before fast movement bonus), and then increase it to their full basespeed (still before fast movement bonus) at like level 11.
I'll second these points. It's also worth noting that Flurry of Blows does more than just allow additional attacks at a higher BAB. It also gives full Str modifier to damage on all the attacks, even if they're off-handed. Also, a monk can have a temple sword or other 'monk' weapon in one hand and have all his flurry attacks hit with that. Simply subbing the 2-weapon fighting feats doesn't achieve all this.
w01fe01 wrote: Barathos wrote: WIS to hit/damage is a bit much.
Needs d10 HD too.
How about adding a thing where they can Flurry after movement if they move less than or equal to half their basespeed (before fast movement bonus), and then increase it to their full basespeed (still before fast movement bonus) at like level 11.
no it isnt, its no worse then a fighter.
fighter uses STR for hit/damage, DEX for initiative,AC, and con for hp.
monk use WIS for hit/damage, DEX for initiative, AC, and con for hp
how is it too much making them just as mad/sad as a fighter would be?
and no, flurry has no point when you make a character full bab, its designed to basically give TWF for free and inflate you to full bab when using it. instead, make them full bab and you can spec for TWF if desired. Except now Monks have 2 more AC on average than before. If monks didn't get AC from WIS, it'd be a pretty good rework.
If you want to be like a fighter then play a fighter.
Flurry is better than everything in the twf tree combined. Armed with a sword, stabby thing and my forehead, I can deliver any combination of blows with my weapons.
the monks unarmed strikes can be with any part of there body, that is not limited to flurry of blows.
2 more AC? oh woes me, so they get from ok AC to...ok ac?
i understand people get upset when things get taken away, but its not hte end all be all is it, its about a different approach. so monks become more about unarmed when fighting normally...so? and when i say full BAB i imply d10HD, ive never seen a full bab character with d8's :P
@Cerberus, the unarmed strenth damage is also included in monks unarmed strikes (basic ones) so it is not limited to just FoB)
w01fe01 wrote: the monks unarmed strikes can be with any part of there body, that is not limited to flurry of blows.
2 more AC? oh woes me, so they get from ok AC to...ok ac?
i understand people get upset when things get taken away, but its not hte end all be all is it, its about a different approach. so monks become more about unarmed when fighting normally...so? and when i say full BAB i imply d10HD, ive never seen a full bab character with d8's :P
@Cerberus, the unarmed strenth damage is also included in monks unarmed strikes (basic ones) so it is not limited to just FoB)
You're assuming the FoB will be all unarmed attacks and no weapons. FoB supports this use, but is not exclusive to it.
Barathos wrote: How about adding a thing where they can Flurry after movement if they move less than or equal to half their basespeed (before fast movement bonus), and then increase it to their full basespeed (still before fast movement bonus) at like level 11. I'm in W01fe's group and we have some interesting house rules that give free and collapsed feats. Another house rule we employ is that any character can get full attack if they move half their speed or less. Perhaps W01fe just considered this a given, or perhaps it didn't mean as much without FoB.
your right the idea is good but given my playgroups houserules i thought it not needed.
w01fe01 wrote: Barathos wrote: WIS to hit/damage is a bit much.
Needs d10 HD too.
How about adding a thing where they can Flurry after movement if they move less than or equal to half their basespeed (before fast movement bonus), and then increase it to their full basespeed (still before fast movement bonus) at like level 11.
no it isnt, its no worse then a fighter.
fighter uses STR for hit/damage, DEX for initiative,AC, and con for hp.
monk use WIS for hit/damage, DEX for initiative, AC, and con for hp
how is it too much making them just as mad/sad as a fighter would be?
and no, flurry has no point when you make a character full bab, its designed to basically give TWF for free and inflate you to full bab when using it. instead, make them full bab and you can spec for TWF if desired. Because strength isn't also the stat for the most important save in the game and perception checks, and because fighters don't already get straight good saves.
Edit: Strength also doesn't add to their AC/ Touch AC.
Thomas Long 175 wrote: w01fe01 wrote: Barathos wrote: WIS to hit/damage is a bit much.
Needs d10 HD too.
How about adding a thing where they can Flurry after movement if they move less than or equal to half their basespeed (before fast movement bonus), and then increase it to their full basespeed (still before fast movement bonus) at like level 11.
no it isnt, its no worse then a fighter.
fighter uses STR for hit/damage, DEX for initiative,AC, and con for hp.
monk use WIS for hit/damage, DEX for initiative, AC, and con for hp
how is it too much making them just as mad/sad as a fighter would be?
and no, flurry has no point when you make a character full bab, its designed to basically give TWF for free and inflate you to full bab when using it. instead, make them full bab and you can spec for TWF if desired. Because strength isn't also the stat for the most important save in the game and perception checks, and because fighters don't already get straight good saves.
Edit: Strength also doesn't add to their AC/ Touch AC. its a well known problem them fighters have an issue with there defenses, there bonus feat shtick just doesnt cover it.
but no i do not think the fighters defensive limitations warrants monks not having these changes, even with them, they would still have less DPR then a fighter.
w01fe01 wrote: Thomas Long 175 wrote: w01fe01 wrote: Barathos wrote: WIS to hit/damage is a bit much.
Needs d10 HD too.
How about adding a thing where they can Flurry after movement if they move less than or equal to half their basespeed (before fast movement bonus), and then increase it to their full basespeed (still before fast movement bonus) at like level 11.
no it isnt, its no worse then a fighter.
fighter uses STR for hit/damage, DEX for initiative,AC, and con for hp.
monk use WIS for hit/damage, DEX for initiative, AC, and con for hp
how is it too much making them just as mad/sad as a fighter would be?
and no, flurry has no point when you make a character full bab, its designed to basically give TWF for free and inflate you to full bab when using it. instead, make them full bab and you can spec for TWF if desired. Because strength isn't also the stat for the most important save in the game and perception checks, and because fighters don't already get straight good saves.
Edit: Strength also doesn't add to their AC/ Touch AC. its a well known problem them fighters have an issue with there defenses, there bonus feat shtick just doesnt cover it.
but no i do not think the fighters defensive limitations warrants monks not having these changes, even with them, they would still have less DPR then a fighter. Given that they have more skills, a better touch ac and around the same AC, you're increasing their hit die to the same level, they have better base saves anyways, you're getting rid of their problems with DR, and you're giving them all of the best bonuses of the master of many styles, way better mobility in your system, and a better class skill list, shouldn't they have a little lower dpr?
At that point, whats the point of playing a fighter if a monk is pretty much does what a fighter does, but with vastly better defenses?
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