| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Hi guys I was planning on building a Cleric for PFS who was focused on doing offensive channels as his main attacks. More or less he'd invest in as much AC as possible then walk into the middle baddies and AOE them all until they gave up.
Firstly I'm really trying to weigh up the pros and cons as he'd most likely only reach level 5 or 6 at the end of the day.
~
Human Cleric
CN Negative Energy
Domain: Luck and Protection
STR 7
DEX 14
CON 12
INT 12
WIS 14
CHA 18
Feats
Lvl 1: Selective Channel, Extra Channels
Lvl 2:
Lvl 3: Versatile Channel/Command Undead
Lvl 4:
Lvl 5: ?
Lvl 6:
Sideways answer: Yes, Holy Vindicator.
If you want AC a strength 7 won't work well at all. You need to be able to carry that heavy armor, or at least medium, armor.
You might want to consider being a small race because of their lighter equipment vs reduced carrying capacity. Another option is a Dhampir, because of the Cha bonus and negative energy affinity, allowing you to heal yourself in an emergency.
With Dhampir, you could do:
STR 10
DEX 14
CON 12
INT 8
WIS 14
CHA 18
You could also pick up the control undead feat or whatever it's called and have a skeleton pet.
Note though that I don't play PFS so I don't know exactly what's legal and not within it, but I think this is?
|
Viable, yes. Underpowered relative to other blasters, maybe. You will have to invest a lot into feats to make it comparable to what 5th or 6th level wizards/sorcerers get for free. At base, by 6th level will be rolling 3d6 to their 6d6 for fireball/lightning bolt, although you'll have access to all your spells too and may have lots of uses of channel.
Offensive channeling is viable, but not particularly powerful. You need the "quick channel" feat to make it sufficiently dangerous, but that eats up your use/day at an alarming pace and basically requires a full-round action to activate. Because you diverted your points away from strength and wisdom to pump charisma, your spellcasting will be modest at best and your combat ability non-existent.
Havoq mentions Holy Vindicator, but it's not really an option here. First of all, this prestige class comes available much too late. The earliest possible qualification is level 7, and most builds will wait until level 9. Second of all, as a cleric with 7 strength the diminished spellcasting in return for a higher BAB is just a bad trade. Third, you just can't afford to sink a feat in Alignment Channel or Elemental Channel to qualify; you'd get more punch out of improved channel.
Viable, yes. Underpowered relative to other blasters, maybe. You will have to invest a lot into feats to make it comparable to what 5th or 6th level wizards/sorcerers get for free. At base, by 6th level will be rolling 3d6 to their 6d6 for fireball/lightning bolt, although you'll have access to all your spells too and may have lots of uses of channel.
Channel also sidesteps Spell Resistance and energy resistances, which tend to clog the effectiveness of spells like fireball. Negative channeling is best when you have a room full of low-will-save mooks to murder (just like fireball is at its best when you have a room full of low-reflex-save mooks with no fire resistance.)
|
|
Another thing to be aware of is that in PFS tables are often quickly put together from the pool of available players, often on the basis of class, to create a semi-balanced group. You may find yourself at a table where the other players look to you for heals, since you are a cleric, only to be disappointed that you are woefully inadequate at healing. You might feel pressured to play against your intended role to meet expectations.
|
|
Viable, yes. Underpowered relative to other blasters, maybe. You will have to invest a lot into feats to make it comparable to what 5th or 6th level wizards/sorcerers get for free. At base, by 6th level will be rolling 3d6 to their 6d6 for fireball/lightning bolt, although you'll have access to all your spells too and may have lots of uses of channel.Channel also sidesteps Spell Resistance and energy resistances, which tend to clog the effectiveness of spells like fireball. Negative channeling is best when you have a room full of low-will-save mooks to murder (just like fireball is at its best when you have a room full of low-reflex-save mooks with no fire resistance.)
Yes, but how many monsters with SR do you fight at low levels? Also, wizards have access to great single target damage spells where the channeler has very limited options. Rolling 3d6 (save for half) at 6th level is very underwhelming when fighting a boss. I'm not say it is not viable, but you won't be wowing the table with your offensive prowess.
Yes, but how many monsters with SR do you fight at low levels? Also, wizards have access to great single target damage spells where the channeler has very limited options. Rolling 3d6 (save for half) at 6th level is very underwhelming when fighting a boss. I'm not say it is not viable, but you won't be wowing the table with your offensive prowess.
Then you fall back on buff spells and your 3/4 attack progression, just like every other cleric.
|
|
Then you fall back on buff spells and your 3/4 attack progression, just like every other cleric.
Yes, but how many monsters with SR do you fight at low levels? Also, wizards have access to great single target damage spells where the channeler has very limited options. Rolling 3d6 (save for half) at 6th level is very underwhelming when fighting a boss. I'm not say it is not viable, but you won't be wowing the table with your offensive prowess.
The build posted shows a 7 str with others suggesting a more viable 10. Melee is a weak option here due to the need to boost charisma. Any offensive cleric spells will be limited by the 14 wisdom. Of course no spontaneous healing. Which, yes, leaves buffing but not a whole lot else. Negative energy clerics give up a lot for what they get.
Hrm well thanks plenty on the input, the idea doesn't sound like fun anymore :P
Viable, yes. Underpowered relative to other blasters, maybe. You will have to invest a lot into feats to make it comparable to what 5th or 6th level wizards/sorcerers get for free. At base, by 6th level will be rolling 3d6 to their 6d6 for fireball/lightning bolt, although you'll have access to all your spells too and may have lots of uses of channel.Channel also sidesteps Spell Resistance and energy resistances, which tend to clog the effectiveness of spells like fireball. Negative channeling is best when you have a room full of low-will-save mooks to murder (just like fireball is at its best when you have a room full of low-reflex-save mooks with no fire resistance.)
Unfortunately, many of the more dangerous undead use Will as a strong save and this is before throwing on Channel Resistance and magic items to stuff your channel attempts. If you want to go for a good type channeler, go Sun/Glory as domains. These domains remove the channel resistance stumbling block, improve your channel dc and do extra damage based on your level.
Also invest in a Phylactery of Pos/Neg channeling(Only +2d6 though)
Channel smite is good if you only have one target and have a good set up to attack(flanking) add a Greyflame weapon for another +1d6
I have a guide you should read it.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
The Aasimar is pretty good for this, with the Channeled Force feats. Lots of possibilities are opened up. Your channel rays will cause enemies to be pulled or pushed away from you, which will help you get enemies in position for your allies to murderate.
The problem is that you are fairly limited in the number of times per day you can do this, as it doesn't scale so well, and there are very few ways to add more uses.
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I've got a negative channeler worked up that I'm enjoying right now. You said your target level is 5 or 6? Ok.
I went with Hanspur as my deity, but anything chaotic neutral or chaotic evil will work. Then take the seperatist archetype. You'll swap out one of your domains for any domain the deity COULD offer, based on alignment. Picky Whimsy domain. Now when you channel, you have the possibility of adding or subtracting dice to your damage, based on some rolls. But it will never drop below 1d6 - at the levels you're looking at, it'll never be much of a loss, and has the potential for a lot of gain. (First roll 1d6. On a 1 you subtract, on a 5 or 6 you add. Then roll another 1d6, this tells you how many dice you are adding or subtracting.)
Your favorite spell will be desecrate. It makes the DC to resist your channel go up by 3. Talk to your GM about defining what type of shrine counts for it, then work on finding a way to bring it with you - it will boost that to a +6 to the DC. The demon-hunter's guide introduced a portable one that works for consecrate, ask him if such an item works for desecrate as well.
What I did was a level of oracle, and the rest in cleric. The level of oracle doesn't directly help your channeling, so, you might prefer to drop it for yours, but it gives 2 benifits. He's a Legalistic oracle of Lore. The Oracle of Lore allows me to use charisma instead of Dexterity for my AC and Saves.
The legalistic is the real benefit. You make a vow that you will "Channel to the best of my ability" or something of the sort. Once per day, you get +4 to any roll supporting that. Now look at whimsy. You can use that +4 in two ways here. 1, when you would have to reduce your dice because of a 1, change it to a 5 and add dice instead. 2, When you're adding dice, add 4 to the number of dice rolled. My 3rd level cleric got to channel for 9d6 the other night. It was amazing.
I was designing one that used Aasimar force channeling as well as the alternate channeling effects.
So it wasn't much damage, but it is also a debuff, and throwing at least one of the opposition around. Hopefully that would usually be pulling them into a spot between the melee machine and the backstabber.
Or if you think you don't have enough of melee support for that, you push them away for another round of missile fire and attack spells.
My channeler is also a necromancer. I get to do things every round that way.
Having Shatter Resolve is nice too. I got to deal damage, move them around, and make them shakened.
I made one that I really enjoyed. Only down side was that I couldn't really be near my comrades, due to negative energy, until I got Selective Channel.
Human Cleric
Trait: Sacred Conduit
1. Channel Smite, Imp Channel
3. Selective Channel / Extra Channel / Power Attack
5. Quick Channel
7. Extra Channel / Power Attack / Selective Channel
9. Power Attack / Selective Channel / Extra Channel
Quick Channel is very awesome, even if it is expensive. You can Channel twice in a round if facing multiple enemies, or Channeling before Channel Smiting.
I made one that I really enjoyed. Only down side was that I couldn't really be near my comrades, due to negative energy, until I got Selective Channel.
Human Cleric
Trait: Sacred Conduit
1. Channel Smite, Imp Channel
3. Selective Channel / Extra Channel / Power Attack
5. Quick Channel
7. Extra Channel / Power Attack / Selective Channel
9. Power Attack / Selective Channel / Extra ChannelQuick Channel is very awesome, even if it is expensive. You can Channel twice in a round if facing multiple enemies, or Channeling before Channel Smiting.
Yeah it really is -- or you can channel hurt then channel heal if you need a bit of both in one round if you have versatile.
I think no matter what you will want some other 'focus' that you are good at:
Either good at Save or Suck spellcasting, or good at melee/ranged.
Quick Channel is a good way to basically double your Channel output per round.
Channel Focus boosts the DC by 2, which is nice.
Also, Racial Favored Class bonuses can be nice: Dhampir boosts your effective Class Leve for Channel,
which both increases the amount of dice and the DC.
I've just about finished figuring out a Dhampir Cleric with a Casting/Channel focus.
I was planning on going for Positive Energy Channeling just to help heal allies, although Negative Channel gives it better all around offense.
(I was planning to take Alignment and Elemental Channel to expand it's use with Positive Energy)
As to the idea that PFS people will pressure you to fill other roles, i.e. heal them with Channels,
Channeling Negative Energy is a pretty easy way to shut that down, you can't heal them with it any better than a Sorceror with Fireball.
With that Quandry I would suggest going versatile channeler with negative primary.
My personal preference of course.
@Abe:
Yeah, Versatile Channeler is on my consideration list, and going with Negative Channel (alone or 'primary' per VC)
would probably be optimal just because it saves getting Elemental/Alignment Channel
(as they are living creatures, and Selective Channel gives similar but more versatile exclusion of creatures from the damage),
but I feel like it conflicts with the flavor for the character a little bit too much...
I'm not even sure about going with Versatile Channeler even if I can qualify for it alignment-wise,
just for flavor issues re: Positive/Negative Channel... Although VC is at least plausibly acceptable vs. a pure Negative Channeler.
Going with Negative Channel as 'primary' and Positive as 'secondary'/weakened effect is probably more optimal,
but his story background makes it seem like Positive Channel would be the preferred one to start out with/be strongest.
(a 'Dayborn' story background, and going with the Positive Energy-associated Sun Domain as Separatist Cleric of Nethys)
If anybody's interested, here's his build so far, it might be a rough model for a caster/channel focused cleric (I also have a semi-decent skill focus for a Cleric). I have two alternate sets of stats right now, one with a higher CHA (for Channel) and another boosting DEX and CON (although STR instead of DEX might make more sense, given Encumbrance). Not all the derivative stats are derived using the same set of base stats.
NG (TN?) Ancient-Born Dhampir (Garundi) Humanoid
Separatist Cleric of Nethys 1 (Thought, Sun)
Senses: Low-Light, Darkvision 60'; Perception +3
Languages: Osirioni, Taldane, Draconic -> Kelesh/Ancient Osirioni? (Ioun)
Racial Mods: +2 STR, -2 CON, +2 WIS
STR 11 DEX 12 CON 12 INT 12 WIS 17 CHA 14
-1 +2 2 5 -2 2 7 +2 5 (Point Buy/Racial Mod)
OR
STR 11 DEX 10 CON 10 INT 12 WIS 17 CHA 16
-1 +2 2 -2 2 7 +2 10 (Point Buy/Racial Mod)
Fort +3 Reflex +1 Will +5
Undead Resistance: +2 to Saves vs. Disease and Mind-Effecting effects.
Ancient-Born Weakness: -1 to Saves vs. Ability Damage/Drain/Reduction
Iron Liver: +2 to Saves vs. Poison/Drugs, +4 vs. Alcohol effects
HP: 8 +1 CON +3 Toughness = 12/12
Negative Affinity: Heal from Negative Energy, Damaged by Positive Energy like Undead
Resist Level Drain: Take no penalties but can still die, all Drain cleared after 24h.
BAB: +0
Weapon: Gauntlet/Dagger/Club/Morningstar?
AC: 15 Flat: 10 Touch: 10 Flat-Touch: 10 CMD: 10 Flat-CMD: 10
Armor: Scale Armor? (ACP: -X)
Encumbrance: (Light 38), Medium 76, Heavy 114lbs
Ancient-Born SLA: Doom (CL1, DC 13/14)
Spells: CL 1
DC XX 0th(3):
DC XX 1st(1+1WIS): X Y Z
+ 1 Domain: (Comprehend Languages OR Endure Elements)
2nd Domain: (Detect Thoughts OR Heat Metal)
3rd Domain: (Seek Thoughts OR Searing Light)
4th Domain: (Divination OR Fire Shield)
5th Domain: (Telepathic Bond OR Flame Strike)
6th Domain: (Find the Path OR Fire Seeds)
7th Domain: (Legend Lore OR Sunbeam)
8th Domain: (Mind Blank OR Sunburst)
Domain Abilities: Thought, Sun/Revelation: @-2 Cleric Level (Separatist)
Lorekeeper:
Touch a creature to learn weakness/abilities as Knowledge check = 15+Cleric level+WIS
Sun's Blessing: (don't gain until Level 3)
Add Cleric Level (-2) to Positive Energy Channel damage vs. Undead, Undead Channel Resistance does not apply.
Positive Channel Energy: 1d6
3+CHA=6/day, DC = 10 + 1/2 Cleric Level + 3 CHA + 1 Sacred Conduit = DC 14
Traits:
Race:
*Sacred Conduit(APG): +1 DC to Channel Energy (and perfect flavor for this character)
Equipment:
*Iron Liver(AA): +2 to Saves vs. Poison/Drugs, +4 vs. Alcohol
Feats: 1) Toughness 3) 5) 7) 9) 11) 13) 15)
->Improved Channel (+DC), Versatile Channel (TN only), Life Lure/Turn Undead/Control Undead(w/VC),
-Quick Channel, Alignment Channel, Elemental Channel,
->Skill Focus: Know(Planes)->EHeritage: Arcane(Familiar:Owl/Bat/Mongoose/Weasel/Parrot/Thrush/Rhampho)
->Improved Familiar (Nosoi:TN only/@Level9)
Skills: 2 + 1 (INT) + FC = 4
Ancient-Born: +2 Climb and Survival
Thought Domain: All Knowledge Skills->Class Skills
Skill: Modifier Ranks/Special Notes
---Acrobatics: -----
---Bluff: +3
---Climb: +3 *--
(C)Diplomacy: +6 *-------
(C)Knowledge (All): +1 (Untrained: DC10 only)
Lorekeeper Result: 15+1+3 = 17
(C)Knowledge (Arcane) --------------- (Ioun:maxed)
(C)Knowledge (Nobility):+5 *----
(C)Knowledge (Planes) --------- (+Skill Focus frees up 4 ranks?)
(C)Knowledge (Religion) -----
(C)Linguistics: +1 (Untrained: Only detect forgery, archaic form of known languages)
(C)Sense Motive: +3 -----
---Perception: +3 -----
(C)Spellcraft: +1
---Survival: +5
---Swim: +1 *----
Question: Anybody know of a way in PFS to gain an extra Trait? I really like the "Magic is Life" Nethys Trait (auto-stabilize and a bonus vs. Death Saves seem nice, with his not super impressive CON and HPs), but don't feel like I can fit it in with my current Level 1 build. I know of the Extra Traits Feat for two new ones, but some way to get just one more maybe for PP would be nice to look forward to.
Drawbacks illegal in PFS?
I believe you have to have a very rare boon to play a dhampir.
I don't think there is any way to get 1 more trait
Antipaladin are definitely not PFS legal.
|
|
There is a boon that can be applied any time for another trait. There's another boon that has to be applied at the start for another trait, but it has to be from the Tien book.
Unfortunately, you can never have more than one in a given category, and you mostly want faith traits. Nothing to be done there.
Cleansing Light, Exhaulted of the Society, and Sacred Conduit are the main traits to look at.
There's plenty of good domains and items for the positive channeler.
Go buy the demonhunter's handbook. Buy the exorcism kit. It's specifically called out as working with consecrate (no such specifics for desecrate, sadly). Find a way to lug it around with you and cast consecrate on yourself for +6 to the DC of your channel.
I just couldn't bring myself to follow urgathoa.My channeler is also a necromancer. I get to do things every round that way.
Having Shatter Resolve is nice too. I got to deal damage, move them around, and make them shakened.
I guess not playing on Golarion does have its advantages.
There is a boon that can be applied any time for another trait. There's another boon that has to be applied at the start for another trait, but it has to be from the Tien book.
Unfortunately, you can never have more than one in a given category, and you mostly want faith traits. Nothing to be done there.
Cleansing Light, Exhaulted of the Society, and Sacred Conduit are the main traits to look at.
Thanks, so far Sacred Conduit and Exalted of the Society are the only Trait Category conflict I'm looking at, and I'm leaning towards SC so far. Iron Liver ("Equipment" Trait from AA of all things) was my other choice to get a bonus vs. Poison which helps shore up another major category of Fort Saves besides my Racial Bonus vs. Disease. The 3rd Trait I was thinking of (Religion:Nethys "Magic is Life") would be nice to auto-stabilize and get +2 vs. Death Saves (shoring up another aspect of Fort Saves), but since I already need to get my hands on a Dhampir Boon I don't have right now, I'm not going to worry about another Boon :-).
I looked up Cleansing Light but it's Sarenrae only, and Nethys is definitely part of the concept here. He's normally not particularly anti-Undead AFAIK but as an ascended god he does make sense as a champion of (demi) humanity, and he is also a major god of the "Osirioni" pantheon that would make sense to find worship of in Geb where the character was born (aided by a priest of Nethys under the light of the Sun). Taking things in an overtly anti-Undead direction is the Separatist part of things (although it's less about soul cosmology like Pharasma, and more just about opposing Undead who victimize the living... which is most Undead of course).
There's plenty of good domains and items for the positive channeler. Go buy the demonhunter's handbook. Buy the exorcism kit. It's specifically called out as working with consecrate (no such specifics for desecrate, sadly). Find a way to lug it around with you and cast consecrate on yourself for +6 to the DC of your channel.
Yeah, Sun Domain helps here, and I should look into those items once he gets up in level, that will certainly help balance some of my less-than-optimized choices. Dealing with Outsiders with Alignment Channel (and maybe Elemental if I can fit it) is also the plan (if I don't get any sort of Negative Channel), so that sounds useful too (Demonhunting stuff).
@ Quandry
To increase hp, don't forget your favored class bonus option. For more offense, may want to consider destruction (perhaps a good choice for your life death duality theme?). (...) Don't have the extra action to draw weapon? Shield bash.
I think I'll do OK for HPs starting out with Toughness, I hope to grab a Familiar via Eldritch Heritage so that can be delivering my Touch Spells, allowing to avoid melee combat more (possibly eventually getting a Nosoi if that's PFS legal). As far as Favored Class I feel likely that I will use almost all of it on Skill Ranks (although once I get Skill Focus (in Know:Planes in all likelyhood), I might just divert some into the Dhampir FC boosting Channel vs. Undead).
I did seriously consider the Destruction Variant Channeling, "blowing everything up" is just hard to turn down :-)
(which incidentally brought that section to my attention, there seems to be TONS of problems which I'm still compiling into an Errata post).
FYI, as far as Shield Bash goes, that is a Martial Weapon which Paizo (SKR) ruled that Clerics do NOT have by proficiency in by default, they only have proficiency in Shields as Armor, not Weapons. This guy's attack bonus is going to be pretty damn minimal, I think a Metamagic Rod or Stave that can count as a Club/Quarterstaff is going to be his favorite weapon eventually :-)
|
I am surprised no one mentioned the Hangover Cleric channel build.
There are several PFS-legal ways to build a Hangover Cleric. For example, your cleric could worship the arch devil Dispater, who has the Rulership Portfolio. Your channels only do half damage (the half with no save!), and also Daze all targets who fail to save.
|
|
I am surprised no one mentioned the Hangover Cleric channel build.
There are several PFS-legal ways to build a Hangover Cleric. For example, your cleric could worship the arch devil Dispater, who has the Rulership Portfolio. Your channels only do half damage (the half with no save!), and also Daze all targets who fail to save.
There's some major errors in that write up. Versatile channel can only be taken if you could have chosen your energy type. So it's no use to oracles, paladins or inquisitors.
Second, variant channels only work with positive channeled to heal or negative channeled to harm. It can not be used with negative to heal or positive to harm undead.
|
|
Correct & True. Variant Channeling is quite restricted. It still works. Forget versatile channeling. Just channel to harm, and use the Daze effect from Dispater, Asmodeus' 2nd in command. You're a cleric, so you can still cast healing spells. Damage is only half, but it's the good half that has no saving throw. The other half requires a save and dazes all living (not undead) targets in 30' for one round.
In extremis you can channel twice per round, using Quick Channel, but only for a few rounds per day. This really locks down a battle in your favor, for a little while.
|
|
Note that undead will be immune to Dispater-channelled Rulership daze, because you lack versatile channeling. A positive channeling cleric of Iomedae can also take the Rulership effect that Dazes, but it will only work vs undead. Dispater seems to be the only evil deity of Rulership, and none seem to be neutral.