As the "big bad" of one of my PC's personal plotline (I usually have one main plot, and then one additional plot unique to each PC that all mix and blur) I made an Advanced Fiendish Rakshasa with 3 antipally levels. I geared him as a level 13 PC.
What should the party of a barbarian, bloodrager, oracle, archer (fighter), and a wizard (illusion based) be at level wise to fight this and his legion of gnolls? If I'm not giving enough information, please let me know and I'll try to fill in the blanks.
Depends. What minions are encountered alongside your boss? You say he commands a "legion of gnolls". What exactly does this constitute?
If fought by himself, he's a difficult (ACL +3) encounter for a level 10 party. That's usually where I like to peg my "bosses".
If he's got regular-old gnolls (out of the book), they're negligible. They need class levels to be worth note.
I plan on there being 3 gnolls with class levels so that they are 2 levels lower than the PCs levels. A barbarian, a cleric/warpriest, and a druid.
Minions that are 2 levels lower than the party is going to push the CR a bit high. Perhaps someone better with numbers can work something out, but it seems tricky. What I'm looking at here is XP budget, which is how I've learned to ballpark CR.
You could go with something like this:
Advanced fiendish rakshasa with PC wealth (25,600 XP)
(3) 6th-level gnoll fighters (9,600 XP)
Comes out to 35,200 XP. That's roughly the equivalent of a CR 14 encounter, which means that it would be an "epic" encounter for 11th-level characters. With five PCs, I think they can probably handle it, though.
I recommend you build the gnolls for control. Would definitely buy the rakshasa more time if they focused on reach/trip attacks, which would lend to a more dramatic battle.
what level is the party and how many PC's are there?
Okay good to go. I'll have 2 be upending strike rangers... the third be something else.
Also, question about the smite good from the Rak's antipaladin levels and the fiendish template. That would give him two seperate smite goods, correct? A major and a minor, as it were?
That's what I'm asking would be appropriate. Sounds like 11. I intend on SHOWING the Rak before they're able to fight it, having a scene where the Rak burns the barbarians home village down. But I'm giving the Barbarian a custom sword that will bypass the Rak's Damage Reduction. Therefore, he'd only have to worry about his... fairly obscene AC during a Smite.
for future refrence, the CR of anything with player classes is equal to it's level when given PC level loot. CR -1 otherwise.
Yeah, can you post the entire building of all the dudes so we can offer better advice?
for future refrence, the CR of anything with player classes is equal to it's level when given PC level loot. CR -1 otherwise.
I do know this, it's mixing lower level mooks and a CR10 monster given class levels. I made a "technically" CR 4 Swashbuckler that the level 3 barbarian was ONLY able to hit on a nat 20. So I also realize that CR is a guideline, not the hard rule.
for future refrence, the CR of anything with player classes is equal to it's level when given PC level loot. CR -1 otherwise.I do know this, it's mixing lower level mooks and a CR10 monster given class levels. I made a "technically" CR 4 Swashbuckler that the level 3 barbarian was ONLY able to hit on a nat 20. So I also realize that CR is a guideline, not the hard rule.
ok so to determine CRs, you basically just add all the experience together and then see CR gives the closest experience.
all the tables here are useful for this.
Okay, so working backwards, what is the CR of an Advanced Fiendish Rakshasa with 3 levels in Antipally? The network I'm on right now blocks d20pfsrd.
Yeah, can you post the entire building of all the dudes so we can offer better advice?
The game hasn't started yet. I've been theory crafting a lot of their builds from looking at the barbarian and the archer's level 3 character sheet (we're starting at 3).
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Okay, so working backwards, what is the CR of an Advanced Fiendish Rakshasa with 3 levels in Antipally? The network I'm on right now blocks d20pfsrd.
A Rakshasa is CR 10, and Antipaladin isn't a key class, so CR 13 total (+1 Advanced +1 Fiendish and +1 Antipaladin since you round down when halving the Antipaladin levels).
So, three level 8 Gnolls of key classes are CR 9 a piece, which makes that a bit over CR 14. Make them 9th level and CR 10 and they go a bit over CR 15.
Personally, I'd go with four Gnoll minions, all 8th level and CR 9 (I'd make the fourth a Slayer or Ranger...or a Bard if I was feeling especially mean), and that works out perfectly at CR 15. They're three levels below the PCs (but only two hit dice), but they outnumber them, and that's a pretty solid advantage.
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DMW is on the ball, as usual. Nothing to add.
Thanks. :)
...except maybe I tend to work the other way around: I customize my encounters to match my PCs, not the other way around. But to each his own... Oh, and whereas MAIN BBEG fights should be indeed epic (APL+3 or +4), sub-bosses could do with "regularly difficult" (APL+2 or so); wouldn't want them to outshine the main attraction. But that's just, like, my opinion, man!
I agree in principle, though I usually go APL+4 for main bosses and APL+3 for lesser ones.
By the way, how did a big freakin' kitty get a bunch of dog-likes to work for him? :P
They probably think he's a Gnoll. Rakshasa can shapeshift into any humanoid they like after all.
And, typical pictures aside, Rakshasa can actually have features from any large predator, with canonical examples including crocodiles and other such things. Maybe this one's got hyena features.
Thank you very much Dead. And I did tailor this fight to match my PCs. He came up with a backstory where there are two clans, one catfolk and one gnoll. This guy is... a Jackal headed Rakshasa. He won the allegiance by killing their previous alpha one on one.
Rakshasa (CR 10)
Antipaladin (+3)
NPC wealth (-1)
Fiendish (+1)
There is no reason to make the Rakshasa Fiendish. The entire point of the template is to add resistances and DR based on HD.
So:
Rakshasa (CR 10)
Antipaladin (+3)
PC wealth (0)
So CR 13.
As a general rule you want at least as many enemies as there are PCs.
A boss encounter would be CR +4 (Equal to the PC's CR), and a campaign ender where the PCs are at a disadvantage would be around CR +5.
If the PCs are level 13 then this with 3 (#PCs - 1) other CR 13 monsters would be a good boss encounter. This enemy along with the other personal character stories could be revived by the actual Big Bad for the Campaign Ender.
Assuming 4 PCs, if there are 4 mini-arc bosses (E.G. the Rakshasa) then have a mini-boss the PCs fight and kill a level before Big Bad, and Boom, you have 6 enemies. Have them all be the same level as the PCs, and the CR for the encounter is +1 with the action economy against the PCs thereby forcing them to use greater tactics than their adversaries to achieve victory.
So the PCs should be level 13. The Rakshasa should have 3 (#PC - 1) lackies or monsters that are also CR 13 to make the action economy equal. If you are a sadist then 3 more common Rakshasas with their DR 15/ good and piercing will most likely crush the PCs that use weapons.
I gave him fiendish for the better Smite Good, and because I am unclear about how DR 15/ good and piercing works. Does that mean good or piercing overcomes it, or that something has to have both? Because part of the story is him coming back to rechallenge the PC's father (a synthesist summoner) and I wasn't sure if natural attacks, because they're basically all piercing, penetrate the DR.
DR X/ Y and Z means that your physical attacks take X to their damage unless they meet both Y and Z.
So, what this means is:
DR 15/Good and Piercing
means the PCs weapons must be Good AND Piercing to ignore the DR, otherwise they do not pierce it. This means the PCs are going to need Holy magic weapons that deal piercing damage to ignore the DR. Considering that weapons must be at least +1 to gain a magical enchantment and the Holy enchant is +2 the PCs will need +3 weapons to deal considerable damage or +5 weapons to ignore the alignment requirement.
Look up Agathions, their DR is Good ~or~ silver, meaning that Good or silver weapons can bypass it. Good ~and~ Piercing means that the weapon must be good aligned and piercing.
Honestly this is when summoning monsters is advantageous to the PCs.
As for the Fiendshish template, I wouldn't bother with the template. Rakshasa focus on Blasting people to death when it comes to blows. There is a reason he has a blasting spell at each level.
Very well, thank you. This campaign is going to be my first time DMing.
Sometimes it is fun for players to mow through a "legion of gnolls" or any such creature. Build a gnoll of whatever level in whatever class, give them a 10 Constitution (no HP bonus) and assume they rolled a one at every level. Now, use your legion of such gnolls.
They're of a level that can actually harm the party but so low on HP that they'll go down in one shot.
That sounds like something fun for them to mow through on the way to the Rak's throne. Thank you, I'm going to use that.
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Rakshasa (CR 10)
Antipaladin (+3)
NPC wealth (-1)
Fiendish (+1)
There is no reason to make the Rakshasa Fiendish. The entire point of the template is to add resistances and DR based on HD.So:
Rakshasa (CR 10)
Antipaladin (+3)
PC wealth (0)
So CR 13.
This is deeply incorrect. First, NPC wealth is the default, not a reduction (PC Wealth would be +1 CR, in other words), and second, Antipaladin is a non-key class for a Rakshasa, making it only +1 CR, not +3.
Also, he wanted to add Advanced.