Unwitting Ally in practice

[JeremyK]

Hey folks,

Started up a game last night with a bard in the party. I'd not seen the spell, "Unwitting Ally." Per my understanding, its a pretty handy cantrip. During the came it was used essentially as a way to deny enemies a hostile action for a turn. The bard would situate himself so that he was right before the enemy in the initiative order, hit him with Unwitting Ally, the enemy would miss his turn because he views the party as friendly, and then the party would unload on him. Repeat.

Now, I have no problems with this spell as is... but as cantrips go it feels pretty powerful. Thus, I've read and re-read the rules, checked out forums posts on it, and as far as I can tell we played it right. I'm surprised to find some folks commenting that the spell is not very useful-- it sure felt useful.

So, my questions are:

1) did we play it right based on the above description?
2) were we right in ruling that since the enemy became the bard's ally, it would also listen to him when he suggested that his party were friends as well?
3) would it work on animals and other creatures regardless of intelligence/language ability?

[Captain Wacky]

JeremyK wrote:

Hey folks,

Started up a game last night with a bard in the party. I'd not seen the spell, "Unwitting Ally." Per my understanding, its a pretty handy cantrip. During the came it was used essentially as a way to deny enemies a hostile action for a turn. The bard would situate himself so that he was right before the enemy in the initiative order, hit him with Unwitting Ally, the enemy would miss his turn because he views the party as friendly, and then the party would unload on him. Repeat.

Now, I have no problems with this spell as is... but as cantrips go it feels pretty powerful. Thus, I've read and re-read the rules, checked out forums posts on it, and as far as I can tell we played it right. I'm surprised to find some folks commenting that the spell is not very useful-- it sure felt useful.

So, my questions are:

1) did we play it right based on the above description?
2) were we right in ruling that since the enemy became the bard's ally, it would also listen to him when he suggested that his party were friends as well?
3) would it work on animals and other creatures regardless of intelligence/language ability?

1. No. He can't take any hostile act against the Bard... not the rest of the group.

2. No. Remember this is a cantrip. He's considered the bard's ally for determining flanking, that's all. He's not otherwise going to be convinced of anything else. This is a slight befuddlement, not a full charm.
3. Spell description is "one living creature."

[SlimGauge]

Unwitting Ally says

"You befuddle the target's mind. The target has difficulty telling friend from foe for a short period of time. The subject is considered your ally and not your enemies' ally while determining flanking. The subject takes no other hostile action against your enemies due to this spell's effect."

The first two sentences are "fluff", explaining the mechanical effect that follows. The effect is the third sentence and the fourth sentence.

The target of the spell counts as YOUR ally for flanking. The target does NOT count as an ally of your enemies for flanking. The target does NOT take any hostile action against your enemies (his former allies) due to the spell.

That's it. He still considers the rest of your party to be his enemies and can attack them. He just cannot count for flanking them.

So, IMHO:
1) No.
2) No.
3) Yes.

EDIT:Somewhat ninja'd

[JeremyK]

Thanks for your thoughts on this. I think the second sentence was being interpreted in a way that led to us misplaying it.

So, before I email out to the group clarifying this, help me think through this:

The spell is considered a charm:
School enchantment (charm) [mind-affecting]

Reading about how charms work states:
•A charmed character retains his original alignment and allegiances, generally with the exception that he now regards the charming creature as a dear friend and will give great weight to his suggestions and directions.
(http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/special-abilities#TOC-Charm-and-Comp ulsion)

Thus, if the spell is considered a charm, and the rules suggest that when affected by a charm (versus a compulsion) a creature gives great weight to suggestions and directions of the charmer... what stops the bard from suggesting that the unwitting ally should hold off on hurting his friends?

Thanks,
J

[SlimGauge]

Again, the only effect is the stated one. The description of the charm school says "A charm spell changes how the subject views you, typically making it see you as a good friend." Bolding is mine.

The subject is NOT charmed the way he is when you use charm person. He just has "has difficulty telling friend from foe for a short period of time." He does NOT regard you a dear friend. He's just not sure if you're friend or foe for one round.

And even if it did, your bard has already used his standard action to cast the spell, and has no action left to use diplomacy on the target to convince him not to attack creatures that he still regards as his enemies.

[Captain Wacky]

It's in the charm school, but it's not a full blown charm.

What stops it is the spell description. What the spell describes is the only thing that happens. He's not under any compultion to listen to the bard, he has a harder time discerning friend from foe (in regards to the bard). That's it, it's not Charm Person.

[JeremyK]

Got it. Thanks folks.

[JeremyK]

So one final question. With that in mind-- is it the case that the enemy might still attack the bard? It says he is considered an ally related to flanking concerns, but doesn't specify more globally that the enemy will refrain from attacking the bard.

[SlimGauge]

Unless those enemies (I'll call team badguy) have spellcraft and make the roll, they don't know what spell effect the target is under. They *might* notice that the target isn't helping them flank (I imagine it as the target passing up opportunities because the target is thinking "Wait, is this guy one of mine or not ?") but the target isn't actively attacking team bad guy. The fourth sentence expressly says so.

So why would team bad guy attack the target of the spell ? He's not doing them any active harm, he's just not pressing the attack to team good guy as hard as he should.

EDIT: Misunderstood your question:

Yes, The unwitting ally *might* still attack the bard

[JeremyK]

I think I botched my question. I'm hearing you say that team badguy wouldn't hold a grudge for one of their own being an unwitting ally and just standing there. I'm with you.

I'm asking: If you have a room with a bard and a badguy. The bard hits badguy with unwitting ally and then stands adjacent. There is nothing in the spell that makes it such that the badguy wouldn't smack the bard, right? It only has mechanical implications for flanking consideration.

Edit: Ninja'd by the source.

[Beopere]

RAW nothing prevents the creature from attacking the caster. It ONLY influences flanking, nothing about the creatures actions.

[Joex The Pale]

My question on this subject is; are the rest of the bard's allies able to cash in on this "counts as flanking" thing? If the bard nails a guy standing behind the guy attacking his fighter buddy with this, does fighter buddy now get a flank bonus?

[kadance]

No. The only person the target is considered an ally of is the caster of the spell.

[SlimGauge]

This cantrip is one you use on team badguy's rogue to mess up his carefully constructed flanking position (if you land the spell).