Hey all,
I tried my hand at converting the 3.5 Rage Mage from Complete Warrior to Pathfinder for one of my players, a blaster sorcerer who keeps trying to hit people with his spiked gauntlet. We recently switched from 3.5 to Pathfinder, and he was planning on taking the prestige class before. I thought I'd adapt it so as not to have him waste his barbarian level. I've done some tweaking too, making it less a wildish warrior-mage and more a pissed-off wizard with anger management issues. Both the mechanics and the flavour, I guess, are quite different.
Rage Mage
Hit Die: d6
Requirements:
Alignment: Nonlawful
BAB: +4
Feat: Combat Casting
Spells: Able to cast 2nd-lvl arcane spells
Special: Superstition Rage Power
Class Skills:
Climb, Fly, Intimidate, Spellcraft, Survival, Swim
Skill points: 2 + Int
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Rage mages gain no proficiency with any weapon or armor.
Base Attack Bonus: Full, as fighter
Saves: Fort good, Ref and Will poor
Spells: Advance every even level
- 1 - Spell Rage
- 2 - Spell Fury (heighten), Spells +1 to existing class
- 3 - Rage Power
- 4 - Disruptive, Spells +1 to existing class
- 5 - Spell Fury (empower)
- 6 - Rage Power, Spells +1 to existing class
- 7 - Spellbreaker
- 8 - Spell Fury (quicken), Spells +1 to existing class
- 9 - Greater Rage, Rage Power
- 10 - Arcane Apoplexy, Spells +1 to existing class
Lvl
Spell Rage (Ex): While raging, a rage mage can cast a spell of the abjuration, conjuration, evocation, necromancy, or transmutation school, adding her barbarian and rage mage levels to her caster level. A rage mage's class levels stack with barbarian levels for the purpose of determining the number of rounds she can rage per day.
Spell Fury (Sp): Starting at 2nd lvl, a rage mage can heighten one spell to her highest spell level, as the feat. This functions as if she was using a metamagic feat for all purposes, except without adjusting the spell's level and casting time. She may use this ability once per Rage.
At level 5, she can also use this ability to empower a spell, without increasing the spell level and casting time, but only if the level of the empowered spell would not be higher than her highest spell level. At level 8, she can also use this ability to quicken a spell in the same way.
Rage Power (Ex): At 3rd, 6th, and 9th level, a rage mage gains a new rage power. She may add her rage mage level to her barbarian level for this purpose.
Disruptive (Ex): At 4th level, the rage mage gains Disruptive as a bonus feat, even if she does not meet the normal requirements.
Spellbreaker (Ex): At 7th level, the rage mage gains Spellbreaker as a bonus feat, even if she does not meet the normal requirements.
Greater Rage (Ex): At 9th level, when a rage mage enters rage, the morale bonus to her Strength and Constitution increases to +6 and the morale bonus on her Will saves increases to +3.
Arcane Apoplexy (Su): A 10th-level rage mage can go into a frenzy which grants all the benefits of the Transformation spell, with one exception: she does not lose her spellcasting ability for the duration of this effect. This is a free action to activate, and can only be activated in the rage mage's turn. It can be activated once per day, and lasts for a number of rounds equal to the sum of the rage mage's class levels, levels in barbarian, and levels in her highest spell-casting class.
What do you think?
Have you tried this out yet? It seems pretty powerful to be able to spell rage all the time and stack all your levels for caster levels.
Keep in mind that this only brings your caster level up to your character level at most. While raging, you can cast just as well as a dedicated caster (though you'll have access to fewer spells and spell levels), but this is only possible for a limited number of rounds per day, and when you're not raging, you pay for it in power. While the rage mage gains levels, this gap widens, but she also gains more rounds of rage per day.
I don't think the level stack that comes with rage ought to be a big problem, since it doesn't elevate power levels over those of a straight caster, and you generally won't use the physical and casting bonuses of rage in the same round anyway. Other things contribute to this effect, like the Magical Knack trait.
That said, I haven't tried it out yet. I moved abroad shortly after posting. Full BAB might be too good, but then again, Eldritch Knight gives you two extra spell levels (four caster levels). You basically swap that out for Spell Rage.
I see a few problems:
1. d6 HD/Full BAB. Should be either d10/Full BAB or d6/poor BAB, per PF standards
2. Barbarians cannot cast spells while raging, so the bonus to caster level while raging is moot. Easy fix, "Rage mages may cast spells while in a rage."
3. Spell fury is incredible. Once per rage? Immunity to fatigue is pretty easy to get a hold of, so the character could ragecycle and nova empower all his spells for however many rounds of rage he has.
4. the Transformation ability is kind of wacky. Why not just give them full BAB without making an ability that is an exception (a pretty big one) to the spell? Doesn't make much sense imo.
I see a few problems:
1. d6 HD/Full BAB. Should be either d10/Full BAB or d6/poor BAB, per PF standards
2. Barbarians cannot cast spells while raging, so the bonus to caster level while raging is moot. Easy fix, "Rage mages may cast spells while in a rage."
3. Spell fury is incredible. Once per rage? Immunity to fatigue is pretty easy to get a hold of, so the character could ragecycle and nova empower all his spells for however many rounds of rage he has.
4. the Transformation ability is kind of wacky. Why not just give them full BAB without making an ability that is an exception (a pretty big one) to the spell? Doesn't make much sense imo.
Thanks for the input!
1. True, I didn't think it would be an issue to break the pattern. d8/medium progression might be a better option, then.2. Says it right there; "While raging, a rage mage can cast a spell of the abjuration, conjuration, evocation, necromancy, or transmutation school". Would be no problem to make it clearer by adding that line, though.
3. Hmm, fair point, I didn't take immunity to fatigue into account. The once per rage part is from the original Rage Mage ability, but in 3.5 that would burn up your uses of rage/day. Then again, I think the only core Pathfinder ability that grants continuous immunity to fatigue is taking 5 levels in Oracle with the Lame curse (I mean, if you want it that bad...). On the other hand, this is an issue with respect to the class being backward compatible with 3.5. How about once per battle?
4. That's the only ability of which I copied the mechanics exactly from its 3.5 equivalent, the capstone 'warrior cry' (which is a stupid name). Don't know if that matters for the wackiness. Figured I'd keep it in because it shouldn't pose mechanical problems. Do you think it's too convoluted/uselessly complicated?
I see a few problems:
1. d6 HD/Full BAB. Should be either d10/Full BAB or d6/poor BAB, per PF standards
I'd like to point out that this is a false assumption. While it is true the Core & Base Classes follow the matching of the BAB to the Hit Die rule, Prestige Classes do not have to do this and there are exceptions printed by Paizo.
If you look in the Advanced Players guide you will find the Prestige class called THE RAGE PROPHET. This class has a D10 Hit die and a Medium BAB. I mention this to you because it is quite similar to the Rage Mage and it may provide you with a more structured guideline.
Personally I would recommend keeping the Full BAB and giving it a D8 hit die as WotC had a tendency to Nerf most of their PrCs rather than over power them. Actually it seems fairly consistent in the "Complete" splat books that there are one or two OMG-AMAZING PrCs and the rest ranged from passable to unplayable.
Complete Warrior had a lot of good PrC ideas, but the broken one was the Frenzied Berserker not the Rage Mage.
Complete Divine gave us Captain Insta-Heal (aka the Radiant Servant of Pelor), the Divine Wizard PrC (The Rainbow Servant) and the ever build popular Ur-Priest.
The reason why PrCs are not tied to the same class creations rules is so that YOU the GM can customer design the PrC to fit into your campaign world. You want a PrC for a gish with a Full BAB and a D6 Hit die. Yeah you can make that. Because that PrC is suppose to be a reflection of your world.
Hope this helps to guide you.
Personally I would compare the Rage Mage to the Rage Prophet and try to come to a happy medium.
Enjoy. AK
If you look in the Advanced Players guide you will find the Prestige class called THE RAGE PROPHET. This class has a D10 Hit die and a Medium BAB. I mention this to you because it is quite similar to the Rage Mage and it may provide you with a more structured guideline.
Yeah, I looked at the Rage Prophet for guidance. I think the feel of the two are quite different though (what with the spirit guardian and all). I looked at it as an example of a Pathfinder prestige class (included the rage power requirement for example), but tried to keep the class's content closer to the rage mage from Complete Warrior.
Personally I would recommend keeping the Full BAB and giving it a D8 hit die as WotC had a tendency to Nerf most of their PrCs rather than over power them. Actually it seems fairly consistent in the "Complete" splat books that there are one or two OMG-AMAZING PrCs and the rest ranged from passable to unplayable.
I was thinking the same, especially since prestige classes can't be taken as favored class, so a D6 would give the player less HP than it would get if it had stuck with caster. That's kind of detrimental to your efforts as a gish. d8 or even d10 might be better.
The reason why PrCs are not tied to the same class creations rules is so that YOU the GM can customer design the PrC to fit into your campaign world. You want a PrC for a gish with a Full BAB and a D6 Hit die. Yeah you can make that. Because that PrC is suppose to be a reflection of your world.
Fair point. I'd like to get it as balanced as possible, though, even if it's just to develop a starting point for others who are looking for a conversion (this thread is currently the #1 hit if you google 'pathfinder rage mage'). Fitting into the campaign world is important, but so is playability.
one thing i did notice is the word you use for heighten spell is a little vague, since it doesn't automatically bump it up to your max level, but by one level up to your maximum, but that's just nit picking.
I know, but in this case it's free to use, so I'd rarely imagine players wanting to heighten their spells to any level lower than their highest.
definitely keep the full BAB and bump up to a d10 hit die, you need the survivability they bring once your outta rage, and you also don't wanna run into the same problems people had with the rage prophet (bonuses not being worth what your losing)
From what I gather, the problem with Rage Prophet was that 1 level of Barbarian and 1 level of Oracle gave more benefits than 2 levels of Rage Prophet, with the same flavour. I'm not sure if that's an issue here. This ought to be a class in which 10 levels make you a better melee character than 10 levels of gish wizard/sorcerer, and a better caster than 10 levels of barbarian, and better at both melee and casting than 5 levels in wizard and 5 levels in barbarian, allowing you to effectively combine the charms of both classes.
as for the rage cycling....well that depends on the players, if there playing as players than yes it could be an issue and you may wanna house rule it at the time to be one per battle or one per hour, something to that effect, but if you've got people who're actually playing the character (because let's face it i don't care how smart your barbarian is, once he's raging he's not going to think "oh let's stop being super angry and blood thirsty to gain a cheese effect with my powers" that's purely a thing optimization brings, but i won't say anything more lest the flame war begin)
Yeah, this seems to be a general issue with the one-use-per-rage rage powers. In fact, it's not so big an issue with this class, since there's no way to get Tireless Rage. You could go oracle 1/wizard 3/barb 3/rage mage 2 and gain immunity from the Lame curse, but if you're willing to go there... may God have mercy on your soul.
lastly i would bump up the spell casting gained to be in line with the rage prophet, every other level may have been okay sometimes in 3.5 but everything has that extra jump in power now for pathfinder, and you wanna make sure you can keep up, even without your best stuff.
all in all keep up the great work, i think it looks solid, cant wait to hear how the playtest goes
Thanks. I think keeping the full BAB and giving it a D8/D10 HD might make it more powerful than the other caster prestige classes. The only other prestige class with spellcasting and full BAB progression is Eldritch Knight, and this Rage Mage gets increasing amounts of useful rage/day on top. Dragon Disciple and Rage Prophet get 7/10 casting plus major goods, but both only have 3/4 BAB.