Can someone justify impaling critical?


Advice


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I'm considering a spear-wielding build, and the impaling critical feat seems very appropriate from a flavor perspective, but it's effect seems almost worthless. It says an impaled creature takes damage equal to your weapon's damage dice (including special properties) at the beginning of each of its turns and when the weapon is removed. I take this to mean that there's no rolling, and a 1d8 damage spear would do 8 damage every time. That's nice, but I don't think it's nice enough to forego all of the bonuses to attack damage (such as strength bonus and weapon enhancement bonus), as well as any attacks you could take that turn. I suppose you could immediately pull the weapon out every time you impale, essentially adding a bonus to your crit equal to your weapon's damage dice. That doesn't seem worthwhile to me, considering there are feats like Vital Strike that do something similar, but don't require a crit to activate.

Am I interpreting this correctly? Is there some usefulness that I'm missing?


Maybe for a build that uses 2 one handed weapons, at least one piercing, and doesn't do TWF?


I can't think of anything really.
I did have a build using this, and a bunch of knives with anchoring on them just for high amusement of pinning people to walls, and such.


Have multiple spears. When you impale someone with the one spear, leave them be, draw another spear, and keep fighting. Then the opponent has to spend a move action to get the spear out.

A good question is, however, would this apply if you threw the spear? I would think no, since it says "melee weapon of your choice" but it makes sense that if someone was hit by a good javelin throw then they would be impaled.


Improved impaling critical halves their speed as long as the weapon is still in them.


COnsider hamatula strike instead. It needs more feats to work, namely improved unarmed strike, improved grapple and hamatula strike

But it is considerably better since you can try to impale you oppoent with every hit instead of waiting to the random critical. And when you finally have greter grapple, rapid grapple and the other hamatula feat the DPR of the build is pretty good.


Hmmm... I can kinda see a use for it, in that you could impale them then let go and grab your spare weapon, forcing them to waste a move action removing it or live with the damage per round while the fight continues.

Honestly, it'd be far better if it worked with ranged weapons and Barbed Arrows. Can you get a barbed spear?


The end of the feat says you must hold onto the spear for it to work, which would seem to apply that if you drop it then the feat just stops functioning, making it even worse.

@Nicos

The best use of Hamtula Strike IMO is to full attack, grapple, and then simply free action release the enemy on your turn. Rinse repeat. That way the enemy gets all the downsides of being grappled while you don't. And it literally costs you no actions.

Shadow Lodge

Very cool idea.

Seems like this feat is really a pre-requisite for the juicier Improved Impaling Critical, which is quite a bit rougher and offers some lasting effects.

Full feat text of Improved Impaling Critical:
Prerequisites: Impaling Critical, Critical Focus, Weapon Specialization with selected piercing melee weapon, base attack bonus +13.

Benefit: While you are using Impaling Critical to impale an opponent, and you are still holding onto that weapon, that opponent must succeed at a grapple combat maneuver check against you to pull your weapon out. If you have let go of your weapon, the impaled opponent must spend a standard action to remove the weapon. Until the opponent pulls the weapon out, his speed in all modes is halved and his maneuverability, if any, is reduced by one step. When the weapon comes out, instead of dealing the damage normal for Impaling Critical, you can deal bleed damage equal to your weapon's damage dice result once per round at the start of that opponent's turn.


First off, I don't think it deals damage equal to the maximum possible of the dice; I think you roll.

But I imagine the most effective way to use this is to have a backup one-handed weapon, since you just need to hold on to the impaling weapon, not wield it. It also makes sense to have thing that deal bonus damage dice, rather than straight enhancement bonuses; an acidic, shocking ranseur would deal 2d4+2d6 damage, which isn't really that bad, as an immediate action whenever you crit.

I can't see keeping the weapon in, unless you crit on your last iterative attack. Before you get improved impaling crit, you'll basically just want it for the bonus damage once per round by immediately withdrawing the spear.


You just rip out the weapon as an immediate weapon directly following the crit and keep on fighting normally.
That way you deal the weapon die + special properties extra for just an immediate action.


Thanks for the comments. It looks like it's more of a two-weapon feat than a spear feat. I like the idea of improved impaling crit + anchoring weapon, but it just doesn't fit this build. Maybe next time I'll try a build with that in mind.


it's good if you crit. Let's say you do, in fact, score a critical hit. He takes the damage from that. Then it sticks into his body. His turn starts, you do more damage. He moves outside a 5 foot square from you, you do damage as the weapon comes out. so you get off 2 attacks like that. Assuming he pulls it out of him. if he doesnt, this is continuous damage until he pulls it from himself-then takes another hit. Really good if you have a juiced up weapon.


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Use it with unarmed strike and a style feat that lets you deal piercing damage!

Liberty's Edge

Rapier or No Dachi with Improved Critical. Threatens on 15 - 20. On a critical, deal x2 damage + normal damage. Any time before your turn, immediate action for more damage (concentration check if spell casting). Ideal situation is to land it with your last attack, deal additional damage just before your turn comes up, rinse and repeat.

At least, I think it's an immediate action to deal pull your weapon out.


A scimitar with dervish dance should work, too. Which means it could be a feat for a magus. Remember, you don't have to leave the weapon sticking in your opponent's belly. You can just rip it out to deal more damage and continue fighting.

Or another interesting idea (sounds cheesy but is RAW) take it as a wildshape druid or give it to your dino AC. Bite natural attacks are piercing, too. You do not crit often but if you do it hurts.


I dunno, comparing it to sicking critical makes it seem pretty bad. An extra 4.5 damage seems pretty weak to auto sickened for a minute, considering sickened is a pretty good debuff


CWheezy wrote:
I dunno, comparing it to sicking critical makes it seem pretty bad. An extra 4.5 damage seems pretty weak to auto sickened for a minute, considering sickened is a pretty good debuff

While I agree that sickening critical is better, 4.5 damage is the worst case scenario, kinda. That's with a basic longspear. With an acidic, shocking ranseur, you're looking at 2d4+2d6 bonus damage, or 12 damage average. That's not too bad, though again, sickening critical is probably better.

Liberty's Edge

Ranseur has a better critical multiplier, but nodachi has a 1d10 base damage with a better threat range.

Scimitar can't be used because impaling critical requires piercing. The biggest drawback of impaling critical is that when you critical, you have to give up remaining attacks to use it, but I am sure that you can get some cases of crazy damage out of it. I think Bane, flaming, acidic, frost, and shocking, plus enlarge person has potential (if you are fighting the right creature type) of dealing 3d6? +6d6 damage.


Smite Makes Right wrote:

Ranseur has a better critical multiplier, but nodachi has a 1d10 base damage with a better threat range.

Scimitar can't be used because impaling critical requires piercing. The biggest drawback of impaling critical is that when you critical, you have to give up remaining attacks to use it, but I am sure that you can get some cases of crazy damage out of it. I think Bane, flaming, acidic, frost, and shocking, plus enlarge person has potential (if you are fighting the right creature type) of dealing 3d6? +6d6 damage.

You can use a scimitar if you pick up Dervish Dance first.

Scarab Sages

Dervish Dance adds piercing to the scimitar.

Liberty's Edge

Ah, so it allows scimitar to count, but doesn't really help the feat since ability modifier is not added to damage.

Though, if you know that you will be focusing on critically hitting with a scimitar for extra fire damage on a critical. You can drop flaming for a fire steel weapon, substitute another energy effect and I think the damage from the feat would be weapon base damage +6d6+1d4 per insinstance. Using the enlarged nodachi example (3d6), that's an average of 30 damage each time you deal weapon dice damage.


I wonder how this would do on a shapechanging druid, like one of the vital strike builds.


This is a little bit of a tangent, but you're counting several elemental bonuses on one weapon, and I thought that wasn't possible. The elemental damage rules for weapons say they activate on command, and remain active until another command is given. Doesn't that mean that the command to activate a frost property would end an active flaming property (for example)?


Fetchystick wrote:

Have multiple spears. When you impale someone with the one spear, leave them be, draw another spear, and keep fighting. Then the opponent has to spend a move action to get the spear out.

A good question is, however, would this apply if you threw the spear? I would think no, since it says "melee weapon of your choice" but it makes sense that if someone was hit by a good javelin throw then they would be impaled.

The question I have is that the text of the Feat says you have to hold onto the weapon, and can't use it to fight. Which makes me wonder what would happen if you were a harpoon specialist, and you just hold on to the rope at the other end?

Were I playing a harpoon specialist, I would absolutely want to be able to impale people.


Cray Nium wrote:
This is a little bit of a tangent, but you're counting several elemental bonuses on one weapon, and I thought that wasn't possible. The elemental damage rules for weapons say they activate on command, and remain active until another command is given. Doesn't that mean that the command to activate a frost property would end an active flaming property (for example)?

Nope, it just means there's a command to turn it on and a command to turn it off.


Certain class abilities and (I believe) feats allow you to knock someone back in place of a melee attack, I think that would be a good use of the feat.
If you have 3 attacks and crit on the first one then use your second attack as a knockback to get him off of the weapon and deal more damage, 5 foot step in, and finish attacking.
"If your opponent is ever outside your reach, you must spend a free action to let go of your weapon or pull it out of him"

Liberty's Edge

But then you lose the opportunity to deal damage on your opponent's turn. However, isn't there a rule that if your opponent has no where to go, they are knocked prone?

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