I don't like how Bluff (opposed by Sense Motive, with modifiers), Diplomacy (DC depends on attitude and opponents' CHA), and Intimidate (versus opponent's WIS + HD) all use completely different mechanics, and (among other things) scale very differently (Intimidate is useless at higher levels, Diplomacy becomes awesomely trivial, Bluff becomes trivial except against those trained to notice it).
Further, the mechanics for Charm Person use yet another mechanic - uses the Diplomacy attitude ranks but then just bases further success on opposed CHA rolls.
And yet further, I've been clashing with my players over what seem very inconsistent (and sometimes overpowered) interpretations of how Charm and Suggestion work. A player who was given a suggestion was quite irate that the spell could force him to tackle (grapple with) a friend who was about to attack the person who'd given him the suggestion.
I'd like to unify these mechanics somewhat - and more importantly clarify just what Charm and Suggestion can and can't do, both for gathering information and for gaining advantage in combat, but I am not starting out certain of how I want to do it.
My feeling is that Charm X (person/animal/monster) should be a mostly noncombat spell: a creature already in combat won't change a mind or a target from it. Does that underpower it, in your opinion? Whereas Suggestion, while it is designed primarily for noncombat use, should work like a hypnotic suggestion - "statement X" (whatever the suggestion is) is now part of your assumed reality, and unless/until the target is forced to confront the assumption, they'll unconsciously act in accordance with it. Like "we shouldn't be fighting" or "the baobhan sith must not be harmed", which are ideas you can introduce with a standard action even in the midst of combat.
The place where Diplomacy/Bluff/Intimidate really get into trouble is when they're combined with Charm Person, in my experience so far. It seems like Bluff is the better/more frequent skill one might use to accompany Charm moreso than Diplomacy, but the spell description seems divorced from skill use (might the CHA vs CHA mechanic predate 3rd edition entirely?), and that seems like one of the holes we could plug.
My vague thoughts on charm:
- Mostly for noncombat uses. You basically can't cast it usefully when already in combat (+5 to save) - it does not cause amnesia.
- You become trusted. Anything else requires more skill rolls - Diplomacy, Bluff, Intimidate ("I need to know NOW!" "Okay, sheesh!") and so on.
- Makes target friendly, but only that. He's not your confidante, or your comrade-in-arms. Remember there's another category - "helpful" - better than "friendly", and the spell doesn't make the target "helpful".
- A suspicious person is still suspicious. He doesn't forget his secrets need to be kept secret.
- The target still doesn't know you (unless he already knew you). You're a friendly stranger.
- If the target knows you they also know whatever they already knew about you. "I know he attacked me the last time I met. But he seems friendly today. Maybe I'll give him a chance to explain the misunderstanding."
- Works better if the target is isolated. She doesn't forget her other friends, or prefer you to them.
- If you act in a way counter to the target's interests, the game is up and the spell ends.
- It is not an opposed Charisma check. It is an opposed skill check of one or another Charisma-based skill (see above) on your part, and a passive or active Cha, Wis, or Int skill on the target's part (most often Sense Motive or their own Diplomacy).
My vague thoughts on Suggestion:
- Can be cast in combat but works much better if cast outside combat. In combat it lacks the ability to be subtle.
- Can't make the target completely switch sides in combat - won't attack friends with lethal damage.
- Needs to be specific. "Defend me" works.
- The command takes precedence over other priorities. It's like being hypnotized. While spell is in effect, "I have to do this" - you're otherwise normal, but you have a compulsion to perform the specific act and you don't know why or think about why.
- Taking damage in the course of the action, or seeing an action result in damage to a friend, entitles target to another save.
- They don't get stupid, except about this one thing. The target still knows what she knows.
- The reason it's better than charm is that it allows an arbitrary mental-state change (not just "friendship"), lasts longer, and does not require a skill roll.
What do people think? Am I repeating a question others have asked? Does this bother anyone besides me?
