Dex modifier is the source of the bonus, so cannot be applied twice. Anything else is houserules.
Same with wisdom. Line draws where you get bonuses TO ability scores. So barbarian with bless (+1 morale bonus to attack) and rage (+4 morale to STR, leads to +2 bonus to attack) gets overall +3.
Of course, you would never do something like that...You didn't use an emoticon so I have no idea if that is sarcasm or not.
@,@
I'm tricky that way.
How many combinations of classes, archtypes and races have the discussible possibility to add an attribute bonus twice to a roll?
1 of 200? 5 of 200 ?
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So... Uh...
Were we all in agreement that Zen Archery works with the boon posted here?
Fighters have a class feature that says
Starting at 5th level, a fighter can select one group of weapons, as noted below. Whenever he attacks with a weapon from this group, he gains a +1 bonus on attack and damage rolls.What is the source of the bonus? It would seem to be the class feature, wouldn't it?
Now, Zen Archer Monks have a class feature that says
At 3rd level, a zen archer may use his Wisdom modifier instead of his Dexterity modifier on ranged attack rolls when using a bow.What is the source of the bonus? To me, it would still be the class feature.
Why would one class feature be the source of the bonus, but the other not be?
Because of this
use his Wisdom modifier
And how is "+1" different than "+Wis modifier"? They are both numbers (although, Wis modifier is variable).
So both abilities say, "Add a number to something." Each tells you the size of the number (an actual integer, or a variable). So if the first ability is the source, the second should be as well.Otherwise you are being inconsistent.
At this point, I appreciate anyone who hits FAQ for this. I don't think there is anything in the rules to completely say it goes one way or the other.
I will say regardless of whatever FAQ or developers say, I will not ever allow the same stat to be applied twice to excepting the Inquisitor's abilities that double dip of wis to some skills.
Fighters have a class feature that says
Starting at 5th level, a fighter can select one group of weapons, as noted below. Whenever he attacks with a weapon from this group, he gains a +1 bonus on attack and damage rolls.What is the source of the bonus? It would seem to be the class feature, wouldn't it?
Now, Zen Archer Monks have a class feature that says
At 3rd level, a zen archer may use his Wisdom modifier instead of his Dexterity modifier on ranged attack rolls when using a bow.What is the source of the bonus? To me, it would still be the class feature.
Why would one class feature be the source of the bonus, but the other not be?
Because of this
use his Wisdom modifierAnd how is "+1" different than "+Wis modifier"? They are both numbers (although, Wis modifier is variable).
So both abilities say, "Add a number to something." Each tells you the size of the number (an actual integer, or a variable). So if the first ability is the source, the second should be as well.Otherwise you are being inconsistent.
How is "+ Wis modifier" different from "+ enhancement bonus"?
So... Uh...
Were we all in agreement that Zen Archery works with the boon posted here?
I don't see why not, though that's pretty ridiculous:)
I will say regardless of whatever FAQ or developers say, I will not ever allow the same stat to be applied twice to excepting the Inquisitor's abilities that double dip of wis to some skills.
... I'm curious why the distinction? What's the idea behind it? Why Inquisitors specifically?
Also, are you including the abilities that double the bonus or not?
(I suspect you are not including those, since their language is slightly different, but I am simply curious.)
How is "+ Wis modifier" different from "+ enhancement bonus"?
Well, first, because a Wisbom modifier is actually a number, a variable integer. Enhancement bonus is a bonus type, not a number.
You seem to be changing the argument from "Wisdom is the source" to "Wisdom is the bonus type."
Even the Dev you quoted said adding the modifier would be a non-typed bonus. The question is what is the source of this bonus.
Fighters add a bonus with Weapon Training. The bonus is untyped, and I don't think anyone would disagree that the class feature is the source.
Zen Archers add a bonus with Zen Archery. The bonus is untyped, but you said that Wisdom is the source despite that meaning you have to consider this bonus-granting class feature different than other bonus-granting class features.
If you changed Zen Archery to read, "add your wisdom modifier as an enhancement bonus" the bonus type has changed, but the source hasn't.
I don't see why not, though that's pretty ridiculous:)So... Uh...
Were we all in agreement that Zen Archery works with the boon posted here?
Thats one way of answeriing your own question.
If you are allowed to add 2 stats together then what difference does it make if it is 2 different stats or the same stat twice?
RAW, it works, as no rule have been provided to counter this combo.
RAI: I don't know. JJ have some weight in that kind of arguments, but he's perfectible too.
I'd allow it in my games, at least to try. I think it is a nice, probably powerful combo, but I don't think it will break the balance. If it does, we would have "the talk" with the player, and if he doesn't want to give up his combo, I'd adapt my encounters so it stays cool for everyone.
Let's get some fun.
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Also, because someone pointed out that the actually wording of the ability has come into question... (I don't know if it already has been posted, I glazed over a majority of the posts due to the bickering. So if this has already been posted, then ignore me.)
Faithful Archer (Ex) You are particularly skilled at using Erastil’s favored weapon. When using a longbow, you add your Wisdom bonus on attack and damage rolls against targets within 30 feet.
Personally, I don't have a problem with them stacking. Think of it like Point-Blank Shot if you will. And it's only to targets within 30', which means you're getting up into the nitty-gritty which most would agree as an archer you want to put distance. Also, it specifies the longbow, so not every ranged or melee attack. There are quite a few restrictions in the ability to help balance it out. Just my opinion.
Also, in reference to there being no specific text relating to allow them to stack... If Paizo had to add references to every ability/feat that could potentially affect that ability/feat... Well, let's just say there would be a lot more text for everyone to read and everything would become bloated and messy.
Dex modifier is the source of the bonus, so cannot be applied twice. Anything else is houserules.
Same with wisdom. Line draws where you get bonuses TO ability scores. So barbarian with bless (+1 morale bonus to attack) and rage (+4 morale to STR, leads to +2 bonus to attack) gets overall +3.
Not if you agree with what JJ wrote. "Modifiers from ability scores aren't actually bonuses, strictly speaking."
So here is how it goes.Stats give modifiers.
Something else has to change that modifier for it to be a bonus (that'd be the source since stats don't give bonuses).
Zen archer monk allows you to use a different modifier to attack. (no bonus)
The other ability adds a bonus equal to the modifier. (1st bonus)
You only have 1 bonus and one modifier, so there isn't even any stacking.
Even if you pretend that the swapping of what modifier to use is a bonus it can't be from the some source as an extra bonus as the stat can't give those.